DISCUSSION: When does life begin?

[woman.at.the.well]

More specifically HUMAN life.

 

[Steezie]

I personally believe that a true human being is not fashioned untill consciousness sets in. Self-awareness is a defining element of humanity

 

[levi501]

at conception... but the mother should be able to kill this life as long as it's inside her.

 

[jayem]

There are several different answers.

"Life" strictly speaking, is a continuum. Egg and sperm are alive.

A genetically distinct human organism, in a biological sense, begins when the DNA of an egg and sperm join to form a diploid zygote. But this is not a person, or even a fetus.

A human embryo begins when the multicelled blastula implants on the uterine lining. About 1 week after fertilization. This is when pregnancy begins.

A human fetus begins at 8 weeks.

A "person," which is a human being who has the same rights as any other member of human society is the most important distinction and the most contentious. There is no general consensus on when personhood begins. I'd say a personhood occurs 1) at birth, or 2) when a fetus, (by definition, still in utero) reaches natural viability (24-25 weeks), whichever comes first.

 

[cobaltburrito]

More specifically HUMAN life.

What are your definitions of human and life?

 

[OdwinOddball]

Life began several billion years ago, and has continued in an ever branching tree since that time.

The specific life on an organism begins at conception. But we kill organisms every single day for food, by accident or through natural life process such as the immune systems response to bacteria.

Human life despite our own personal preference for such is different only in that we cosnider such life-forms capable of feeling pain and emotional distress, and that such organisms are fully capable of ceomprehending their own mortality.

So, we place little to no value on the animals we eat,the bacteria we kill, or the sperm & eggs that we waste every month, why do some insist on placing extra value on a non-sentient clump of cells existing in a parasitic form inside a womans uterus?

Untill a human embryo is capable of thinking and experiencing pain or emotional trauma, killing it is no different than the anniliation of millions of sperm my girlfriend and I commited this evening.

 

[dragonnest]

This question comes up when morally ignorant people of faith oppose funding for stem-cell research.

It is always nice to give a perspective of the biology to these people. Sam Harris uses the following comparison.

The human embryo in the stage that it would be destroyed to research stem cells, weighs in at around 300 cells, no neurons or organ development.

By contrast, the brain of a housefly contains about 100,000 cells.

Perhaps this might shake some perspectives on how much suffering might take place. I'd like to add that, if you are not a Catholic, you shouldn't take too much offense at scientists giving away free tickets to heaven for souls attached to clusters of cells over 300 times smaller than the brains of flies. God won't take judgment on the innocent stem cells that were killed by the wretched scientists will he?

 

[michabo]

Why impose discontinuities onto a continuous world?

 

[Upisoft]

More specifically HUMAN life.

When first humans appeared on this planet.

 

[Lynden1000]

More specifically HUMAN life.

A fertilized egg is alive. It might not be capable of surviving outside the womb, but it possesses the accepted characteristics of a living organism: it's cellular, self-mobile, possesses a full complement of genes, is capable of reproduction, and engages in metabolic activity.

Whether I would call a fertilized cell a "child" or a "person" is a different matter; but there's no question in my mind that the fertilized cell is a living organism.

 

[Eudaimonist]

More specifically HUMAN life.

With rational functioning, since rationality gets to the essence of what it is for us to be human. Self-awareness seems like a good criterion. I'd want to know if there are good reasons to think that there is a person in there.


eudaimonia,

Mark

 

[BigBadWlf]

Death is defined as the lack of brain activity I see no reason to use a different criteria for the start of life

 

[tcampen]

Life begins at the moment the sperm fertilizes the egg. That's an easy one.

The real question is when does that fertilized egg become a PERSON. I myself cannot view a single cell alone as being a person. I mean, it's a convenient line to draw, but I haven't seen any convincing arguments for it.

As for when personhood begins? I dunno. I don't think there is any real bright line, but as the fetus nears birth, it becomes more and more of a person. I know this approach will make many uncomfortable, but I'm not willing to draw arbitrary lines for the sake of convenience alone.

 

[yasic]

Life begins at the moment the sperm fertilizes the egg. That's an easy one.

The real question is when does that fertilized egg become a PERSON. I myself cannot view a single cell alone as being a person. I mean, it's a convenient line to draw, but I haven't seen any convincing arguments for it.

As for when personhood begins? I dunno. I don't think there is any real bright line, but as the fetus nears birth, it becomes more and more of a person. I know this approach will make many uncomfortable, but I'm not willing to draw arbitrary lines for the sake of convenience alone.

Define life, and explain why an egg or sperm is not alive?

 

[tcampen]

Define life, and explain why an egg or sperm is not alive?

Generally, I think life requires metabolism and the ability to reproduce. Neither eggs nor sperm fit this criterial. While they are certainly biological and have the potential to create life, they are not life in and of themselves.

 

[gengwall]

I agree with life begins at conception but personhood....there's the rub.

 

[Upisoft]

Generally, I think life requires metabolism and the ability to reproduce. Neither eggs nor sperm fit this criterial. While they are certainly biological and have the potential to create life, they are not life in and of themselves.

So, sterile people are not alive?

Edit: And children of course. They don't have the ability to reproduce themselves.

 

[Lynden1000]

So, sterile people are not alive?

Edit: And children of course. They don't have the ability to reproduce themselves.

When scientists talk about reproduction being a characteristic of life, they generally mean cellular reproduction. Even sterile people and children are constantly reproducing their cells.

 

[dragonnest]

A fertilized egg is alive. It might not be capable of surviving outside the womb, but it possesses the accepted characteristics of a living organism: it's cellular, self-mobile, possesses a full complement of genes, is capable of reproduction, and engages in metabolic activity.

Whether I would call a fertilized cell a "child" or a "person" is a different matter; but there's no question in my mind that the fertilized cell is a living organism.

I did not say it was not a living organism, I said it (embryo) was a living organism without neurons, organ development, and 1/300th the size of a housefly's brain.

If you, in your Christian moralist perspective, conclude that the needs of a handful of cells outweigh the needs of living breathing human beings to relieve their suffering (and possibly cures for needless death in the future) then we have no argument here.

Our warrants are simply different. We both believe our warrants are right, even though mine are supported by evidence and yours are supported through faith.

So, choose which is more important to you.
Being that you are all on computers right now, probably own cars, have running water, electricity, and the true miracle that is Coca-cola Cherry, I suggest that evidence is very important in your lives, even if you don't admit its significance when it comes to moral issues.

 

[Steezie]

When scientists talk about reproduction being a characteristic of life, they generally mean cellular reproduction. Even sterile people and children are constantly reproducing their cells.

No actually they dont, they mean PHYSICAL reproduction, the ability to continue on the species