Discussion: on what happens after death?

[Achichem]

The question is what happens after death?

This is a place to post any opinion on the matter no matter how crazy, this will be a place of learning, so try and be polite.

This is from a post I made a little while ago, is should get the ball rolling.

On this topic of what the bible teaches of what happens after death, I will go over a range of topics all important to the understanding of this alternative view!

• Heaven and hell Logical?
• Bible teaching on if everyone has an immortal soul.
• Re-look at hell
• Heaven At death?
• If no heaven or hell then what?
• Three resurrections including a second chance

Heaven and hell Logical?

If one looks at the fruits of Jesus and the fruits of the saints, and knows that they will judge all people, do you really think that it would be in those fruits to not accept people or send to an eternal hell people, that never knew the truth, if they were truly willing to learn?

Then take our concept of heaven, it would be nice and all to think that when we die we go straight up to the father in heaven but is this supported? For if we were to go up to heaven at death, then why does no where in the bible tell us what we are going to do there! And even mainstream Idea of what we would do there are illogical, giving us no purpose and living a life we would call here of a slobs, red neck or lazy, looking down upon such life styles! Would our loving father let us do this an eternity?

Or hell, our father tells us to love our enemies, would this same God go and burn in an eternal hell pit all the souls that both did not know him or against him, keep in mind this would be most of the world throughout the entire lifetime of humanity!

Bible teaching on if everyone has an immortal soul

many assume that the soul is immortal, but this does not come from the bible?
For in the OT, the word soul (nephesh) is used over a 100 times! Does in any of these it teach that it is immortal? Or even that we get judge at death? No rather it teaches quite the opposite.

Ezekiel 18:4,NKJV:
"Behold, all souls are Mine;
The soul of the father
As well as the soul of the son is Mine;
The soul who sins shall die.

Ezekiel 18:20, NKJV :
The soul who sins shall die. The son shall not bear the guilt of the father, nor the father bear the guilt of the son. The righteousness of the righteous shall be upon himself, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon himself.

The New Testament also teaches this very same point, watch closely to what is said:

Matthew 10:28, NKJV :
And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. But rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

John 3:13, NKJV :
No one has ascended to heaven but He who came down from heaven, that is, the Son of Man who is in heaven.

Romans 6:20-21, NKJV :
For when you were slaves of sin, you were free in regard to righteousness. What fruit did you have then in the things of which you are now ashamed? For the end of those things is death.

2 Thessalonians 1:9, NIV :
They will be punished with everlasting destruction and shut out from the presence of the Lord and from the majesty of his power

Philippians 3:18-19, NIV :
For, as I have often told you before and now say again even with tears, many live as enemies of the cross of Christ. Their destiny is destruction, their god is their stomach, and their glory is in their shame. Their mind is on earthly things.

Note the contrast, in these statements

Matthew 7:13-14, NKJV :
Enter by the narrow gate; for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and there are many who go in by it. Because narrow is the gate and difficult is the way which leads to life, and there are few who find it.

Galatians 6:8, NIV :
The one who sows to please his sinful nature, from that nature will reap destruction; the one who sows to please the Spirit, from the Spirit will reap eternal life.

Re-look at hell

Remember this is the God:

Matthew 5:44, NKJV :
but I say to you, love your enemies, bless those who curse you, do good to those who hate you, and pray for those who spitefully use you and persecute you

and who wants

Matthew 5:44, NKJV :
The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some count slackness, but is longsuffering toward us, not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance.

Be reminded the bible uses three hells like three heavens, as with heavens, only one place is a place for the dead,the other two are things of depth.

In the bible for hell, there are 4 words:

Sheol (Hebrew) and Hades (Greek) but though many assumption and ideas come about by many philosophers especially the Greek about this place, one thing is clear, it is a place for the dead, nothing more!

For an example see Psalm 16:10 for an example of how this place was used

Psalm 16:10, NKJV :
For You will not leave my soul in Sheol,
Nor will You allow Your Holy One to see corruption

Clearly this only means grave or in a state of dead! we knwo al will raise, but why not what happens in this Sheol, from just the bible!

In the New Testament the Greek word (tartaroo) is used once and translated to hell in 2 peter 2:4

2 Peter 2:4, NKJV :
For if God did not spare the angels who sinned, but cast them down to hell[tartaroo] and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved for judgment;

Tartaroo means to confine in tartartos, which was a Greek abyss where rebel gods were confined.

So I would think Peter is clearly talking about Satans angels and no one else!

In the New Testament the Greek word gehenna is also translated to hell, yet that is not what gehenna refers to.

Gehenna comes from the Hebrew word ge-hinnom which was also called vally of hinnom or in other words the Jerusalem city dump where they throw all the dead bodies and were there was a fire that burn there to destroy the garbage!

Joshua 18:16, NKJV :
Then the border came down to the end of the mountain that lies before the Valley of the Son of Hinnom, which is in the Valley of the Rephaim[1] on the north, descended to the Valley of Hinnom, to the side of the Jebusite city on the south, and descended to En Rogel.

Joshua 7:11, NKJV :
Israel has sinned, and they have also transgressed My covenant which I commanded them. For they have even taken some of the accursed things, and have both stolen and deceived; and they have also put it among their own stuff.

Joshua 7:25, NKJV :
nd Joshua said, "Why have you troubled us? The LORD will trouble you this day." So all Israel stoned him with stones; and they burned them with fire after they had stoned them with stones.

this word is translated to hell in

Mark 9:47-48, NKJV :
and if your eye causes you to sin, pluck it out. It is better for you to enter the kingdom of God with one eye, rather than having two eyes, to be cast into hell fire-- 48where
"Their worm does not die
And the fire is not quenched.'

Notice the quotations they are from Isaiah 66:24

Isaiah 66:24, NKJV :
"And they shall go forth and look
Upon the corpses of the men
Who have transgressed against Me.
For their worm does not die,
And their fire is not quenched.
They shall be an abhorrence to all flesh."

And example of unquenched fire:

Ezekiel 20:47, NKJV :
And say to the forest of the South, "Hear the word of the LORD! Thus says the Lord GOD: "Behold, I will kindle a fire in you, and it shall devour every green tree and every dry tree in you; the blazing flame shall not be quenched, and all faces from the south to the north shall be scorched by it.

Matthew 10:28 was also Gehenna fire

Matthew 10:28, NKJV :
And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. But rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

Most likely refers to:

Revelation 21:8, NKJV :
But the cowardly, unbelieving, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death."

And was mention because God will burn the Soul lost out of existence!

Malachi 4:1, NKJV :
"For behold, the day is coming,
Burning like an oven,
And all the proud, yes, all who do wickedly will be stubble.
And the day which is coming shall burn them up,"
Says the LORD of hosts,
"That will leave them neither root nor branch.

Out of existence?

Malachi 4:3, NKJV :
you shall trample the wicked,
For they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet
On the day that I do this,"
Says the LORD of hosts.

Does not this sound more like the God David was referring:

Psalm 19:9, NKJV :
The fear of the LORD is clean, enduring forever;
The judgments of the LORD are true and righteous altogether

Heaven At death?
No one went before Jesus:

John 3:13, NKJV :
No one has ascended to heaven but He who came down from heaven, that is, the Son of Man who is in heaven.

Hebrews 11:32-40, NKJV :
And what more shall I say? For the time would fail me to tell of Gideon and Barak and Samson and Jephthah, also of David and Samuel and the prophets: who through faith subdued kingdoms, worked righteousness, obtained promises, stopped the mouths of lions, quenched the violence of fire, escaped the edge of the sword, out of weakness were made strong, became valiant in battle, turned to flight the armies of the aliens. Women received their dead raised to life again.
Others were tortured, not accepting deliverance, that they might obtain a better resurrection. Still others had trial of mockings and scourgings, yes, and of chains and imprisonment. They were stoned, they were sawn in two, were tempted, were slain with the sword. They wandered about in sheepskins and goatskins, being destitute, afflicted, tormented-- of whom the world was not worthy. They wandered in deserts and mountains, in dens and caves of the earth.
And all these, having obtained a good testimony through faith, did not receive the promise, God having provided something better for us, that they should not be made perfect apart from us.

The only other way I can see people to construe such would be:

Philippians 1:23-24, NKJV :
For I am hard-pressed between the two, having a desire to depart and be with Christ, which is far better. Nevertheless to remain in the flesh is more needful for you.

Yet, he knew that the either way this would be, so why do we assume this means heaven at death.

 

[Achichem]

If no Heaven or Hell then what?
Parallel to sleep:

Death is compare to sleep by many figures of the bible; Paul explains this is because we believe in the resurrection of the dead.

1 Corinthians 15:12-13 (NIV) But if it is preached that Christ has been raised from the dead, how can some of you say that there is no resurrection of the dead? If there is no resurrection of the dead, then not even Christ has been raised.

Hebrew 6:1-2 (NKV) Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,
Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment.

Paul clearing makes the concept of people raising from the dead a doctrine of true Christianity. So we must believe that all people could be resurrected.

But now who compares all death to sleep? I will take a few:

Paul:

1 Corinthians 11:30 (KJV) for this cause many are weak and sickly among you, and many sleep.

more can be found at 1 Corinthians 15:6,18,20,51

also

1 Thessalonians 4:13 (KJV) But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.

Peter:

2 Peter 3:4(KJV) and saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.

Jesus:

Luke 8:52 (KJV) And all wept, and bewailed her: but he said, Weep not; she is not dead, but sleepeth.

more can be found at Matthew 9:24, John 11:11,13

What about the old prophets?

Daniel 12:13 (KJV) But go thou thy way till the end be: for thou shalt rest, and stand in thy lot at the end of the days.

Daniel 12:2 (KJV) And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

We could also construe:

Ecclesiastes 9:5 (KJV)
For the living know that they will die;
But the dead know nothing,
And they have no more reward,
For the memory of them is forgotten

Also job thinks so:

Job 14:14-15 (KJV)
If a man dies, shall he live again?
All the days of my hard service I will wait,
Till my change comes.
You shall call, and I will answer You;
You shall desire the work of Your hands

But how do we know everyone gets a resurrection:

1 Corinthians 15:20-23 (KJV) But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.
For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.
For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.

When is this set to happen:

Revelations 20:4-6 (KJV) I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

Why would we be judged twice? Why would we need to be judged at death?

Three resurrections including a second chance

First resurrection:

The resurrection of those who are called now-the ones Paul referred to as firstfruits-is further described in the 20th chapter of Revelation.

Let's notice how John describes that resurrection of the firstfruits: "I saw thrones on which were seated those who had been given authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony for Jesus and because of the word of God. They had not worshipped the beast or his image and had not received his mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years. (The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended.) This is the first resurrection" (Revelation 20:4-5, NIV).

Notice that some are resurrected at the beginning of the 1,000-year reign of Christ-at "the first resurrection." The use of the term first shows that at least one more resurrection must follow.

Another resurrection:
That same verse explains, "The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended." There is another resurrection after the first, and in this resurrection others will have the opportunity to receive salvation. They will be called to understand God's truth and His plan during a period sometimes referred to as the "great white throne" judgment (verse 11).

This time of judgment is further described in verse 12: "And I saw the dead, small and great, standing before God, and books were opened. And another book was opened, which is the Book of Life. And the dead were judged according to their works, by the things which were written in the books."

Those resurrected in this group have never completely understood the truth of God. Consider that the majority of all people who have ever lived have never heard God's truth. Rather than such people being condemned to eternal suffering in a fiery hell, the truth of the Bible is much more comforting and encouraging. God will extend the opportunity for eternal life to everyone-to a relatively few in this age but to billions of people in the coming second resurrection.

Judgment is much more than a final decision to reward or condemn. Judgment is a process that takes place over time before a final decision is rendered. Those brought to a temporary, physical life again in this resurrection (see Ezekiel 37:1-14) will, for the first time, have their minds opened to the truth of God's plan. They will have the opportunity to decide whether they will accept and follow God's instruction or not. After coming to see the truth, they will be judged according to their response to their new understanding. Many will accept that truth, repent and receive God's gift of eternal life.

Do not forget this is not unconceivable remember the parable, could it have deeper meaning:

Matthew 20:1-16,NKJV:
"For the kingdom of heaven is like a landowner who went out early in the morning to hire laborers for his vineyard. Now when he had agreed with the laborers for a denarius a day, he sent them into his vineyard. And he went out about the third hour and saw others standing idle in the marketplace, and said to them, "You also go into the vineyard, and whatever is right I will give you.' So they went. Again he went out about the sixth and the ninth hour, and did likewise. And about the eleventh hour he went out and found others standing idle, and said to them, "Why have you been standing here idle all day?' 7They said to him, "Because no one hired us.' He said to them, "You also go into the vineyard, and whatever is right you will receive.'

"So when evening had come, the owner of the vineyard said to his steward, "Call the laborers and give them their wages, beginning with the last to the first.' 9And when those came who were hired about the eleventh hour, they each received a denarius. 10But when the first came, they supposed that they would receive more; and they likewise received each a denarius. 11And when they had received it, they complained against the landowner, saying, "These last men have worked only one hour, and you made them equal to us who have borne the burden and the heat of the day.' But he answered one of them and said, "Friend, I am doing you no wrong. Did you not agree with me for a denarius? 14Take what is yours and go your way. I wish to give to this last man the same as to you. Is it not lawful for me to do what I wish with my own things? Or is your eye evil because I am good?' So the last will be first, and the first last. For many are called, but few chosen."

Past generations resurrected together

Jesus spoke of this time when He said even the sinners of the long-destroyed city of Sodom would have the opportunity to repent in a future judgment. As He sent His disciples out on a mission to preach the gospel (Matthew 10:9-14), He told them that some they would encounter would reject their message. Of these Jesus said, "Assuredly, I say to you, it will be more tolerable for the land of Sodom and Gomorrah in the day of judgment than for that city" (verse 15).

That there is room for tolerance in that day toward Sodom and Gomorrah shows they will have opportunity to repent and enter God's Kingdom. This is because, when they formerly lived, they either never had opportunity to know God or His way or never fully understood what they heard. The time for their calling and judgment is yet future. This is not a second chance for salvation. This will be their first chance-their first opportunity to act on a clear understanding of God's truth.
In a similar example, Jesus said the long-dead people of the ancient Assyrian city of Nineveh and the biblical "queen of the South" from Solomon's time would rise alongside those from Christ's generation. The people from those generations had lived and died many centuries earlier, never having understood the true God or His plan to offer eternal life through His Son Jesus the Messiah.
]
That God will offer salvation to all who lived and died in all ages without ever really knowing Him shows His great mercy toward all people. God does not show partiality (Romans 2:11). He calls all at the time that is appropriate for them, and all eventually will be given the same wonderful opportunity to receive His gift of salvation.

Evidence of a third resurrection

Other scriptures indicate that a third group will be resurrected just before the final destruction of the wicked in the lake of fire.

Jesus explained that some would deliberately and knowingly despise the spiritual revelations that God would open their minds to understand. These, He said, will not be forgiven "either in this age or in the age to come" (Matthew 12:31-32).

Yet "all who are in the graves will hear [Christ's] voice and come forth ..." (John 5:28). Even those who will not be forgiven are to be resurrected from the dead.
This group will include only those who have deliberately rejected God's way of life even after they have been "once enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit" (Hebrews 6:4-6). These few are people

who were once forgiven and converted but later chose to reject the Holy Spirit and priceless knowledge God gave to them.

Because they "trampled the Son of God underfoot, counted the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified a common thing, and insulted the Spirit of grace," for them "there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, but a certain fearful expectation of judgment, and fiery indignation which will devour the adversaries" (Hebrews 10:26-29).

God has revealed that the ultimate fate of the incorrigibly wicked is to be burned up. "'For behold, the day is coming, burning like an oven, and all the proud, yes, all who do wickedly will be stubble. And the day which is coming shall burn them up,' says the LORD of hosts, 'That will leave them neither root nor branch'" (Malachi 4:1).

Therefore destruction in the lake of fire (Revelation 20:13-14) must include those few who stubbornly refused to repent of their own self-willed rebellion in spite of all the opportunities God made available to them.
When all this is finished we read: "Then Death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death" (verse 14). The judgment of God is complete. Those who are saved will never again have to fear death.


I look forward to question,
No I am not ready to fully dismiss other ideas,
Thank you for your time,
God bless,
DaTsar

 

[Achichem]

No alterntives? no ideas? nothing?

Come on people, i said it was free for any type of idea, no one has any.

 

[AJ88]

.

Hi DaTsar,

Thanks for posting your study. That’s a mighty big plate full you offer us.

While I do agree with most of what you said.....however......I do object - if I may, to a certain conclusions that you expressed.
Namely - about what you said, that – "God will burn the Soul lost out of existence."



While - (annihilation or extinction) - of certain folks, may seem "softer" or "more acceptable" than - (eternal torture and torment) - as most of orthodoxy teaches for those who die as lost, - it still make the Lord God of heaven a failure,......yes, it may seem to a lesser degree, but nonetheless, God is still a failure.


In (1 Tim 2:4) it states that it is God's will to save ALL men......and there is no time limit or qualifications given, for this to be accomplished.

In (Isa 46:10) it states that God's WILL cannot be thwarted.

In (Phil 2:9-11) it states that EVERY knee will bow and EVERY tongue will confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of the Father.

In (Rom 1:9-10) it states that when a person CONFESSES that Jesus Christ is Lord, that they become SAVED, and EVERYBODY will confess this, therefore ultimately will become saved.


In (John 12:32 ) it states that Jesus will draw ALL .....not just try to draw,...... but he will draw all unto himself.


In (Col 1:20) it states that all things will be reconciled to God……not just some, but all.


In (Acts 3:21 & Rev 21:5) it states that God will restore everything, at the time of the restitution of all things, when Jesus will make all things new.


----------------------

Yet, through the views of both (extinction or eternal torment teachings) - for certain folks who die as lost - it forbids, that God will ever accomplish His expressed will.


Instead --- God made some creatures, but then was unable to reconcile all who became lost, back unto Himself.
Jesus would fail to reconcile all things back unto His Father, like was promised.
"To reconcile all things back to His Father." (Col. 1:16-20)

Instead -- the will of a man that God created, now has somehow become stronger and more powerful than His will is to save them.

Instead --- if God did plan to save all humanity - either He could not or He will not do it.
In otherwords, He could not provide an all inclusive salvation for the stubborness of some men. You see, God was a fool, because He planned on something and then couldn't finish it!
-- Just like the one Jesus talked about in: (Lu 14:32) a builder who didn't plan ahead.


Instead --- God would command his followers to "love and forgive their enemies" and "to forgive 70 X 7" to "forgive without limit," then He the Commander in Chief, does not do likewise.
But rather he’d say, "To Hell with the lot of Them."
So in reality, Satan would be more powerful then 'god' because he was victorious through his deception in the damning of some souls to a supposed eternal hell or extinction.

Instead --- Jesus would fail to draw all peoples unto himself like he claimed he would do.
"And I, if I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all peoples to Myself." (John 12:32)

Instead --- Jesus promised, that he was going to make all things new......but then he does not do it......because there would be some of mankind, withering forever in torment and torture in the lake of fire or annihilated.
"Behold, I make all things new." (Rev 21:5)

Instead --- God says that He loves mankind with an everlasting love,....but then that love, would somehow turn to an unbearable wrath, if they would die before become saved or supposed never receive him at all. - But this just doesn't fit with Phil 2:9 - because ultimately, every knee will bow and every tongue will confess that Jesus is Lord.

---------------------


"Pretty soon, everybody will get what they deserve, which is ..."Salvation".."Reconciliation".."Restitution".."Restoration".."Immortality".. and "Incorruption" --- now ain't that the coolest thing?
So someday we'll all be friends, at the end of time when God is All in EVERYBODY." (1 Cor.15:20-28 )


.

 

[Achichem]

Hello AJ88,

You certainly bring good points to the table; this will certainly be fun to explore.

Now just to expand your points:

1 Timothy 2:4, NKJV:
who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.

In (1 Tim 2:4) it states that it is God's will to save ALL men......and there is no time limit or qualifications given, for this to be accomplished.

Isaiah 46:10, NKJV:
Declaring the end from the beginning,
And from ancient times things that are not yet done,
Saying, "My counsel shall stand,
And I will do all My pleasure,'

In (Isa 46:10) it states that God's WILL cannot be thwarted.

Philippians 2:9-11, NKJV:
Therefore God also has highly exalted Him and given Him the name which is above every name, that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of those in heaven, and of those on earth, and of those under the earth, and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

In (Phil 2:9-11) it states that EVERY knee will bow and EVERY tongue will confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of the Father.

Romans 1:9-10, NKJV:
For God is my witness, whom I serve with my spirit in the gospel of His Son, that without ceasing I make mention of you always in my prayers, making request if, by some means, now at last I may find a way in the will of God to come to you. For God is my witness, whom I serve with my spirit in the gospel of His Son, that without ceasing I make mention of you always in my prayers, making request if, by some means, now at last I may find a way in the will of God to come to you.

In (Rom 1:9-10) it states that when a person CONFESSES that Jesus Christ is Lord, that they become SAVED, and EVERYBODY will confess this, therefore ultimately will become saved.
I do not see where it states this?

John 12:32, NKJV:
And I, if I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all peoples to Myself."

In (John 12:32 ) it states that Jesus will draw ALL .....not just try to draw,...... but he will draw all unto himself.
Did I not say that this would happen in his kingdom, but that some people will still choose death?

Colossians 1:20, NKJV:
and by Him to reconcile all things to Himself, by Him, whether things on earth or things in heaven, having made peace through the blood of His cross.

In (Col 1:20) it states that all things will be reconciled to God……not just some, but all.
Could this just be talking about making it eligible to the world? If not why?

Acts 3:21, NKJV:
whom heaven must receive until the times of restoration of all things, which God has spoken by the mouth of all His holy prophets since the world began.

Rev 21:5, NKJV:
Then He who sat on the throne said, "Behold, I make all things new." And He said to me, "Write, for these words are true and faithful."

In (Acts 3:21 & Rev 21:5) it states that God will restore everything, at the time of the restitution of all things, when Jesus will make all things new.
Well if I was right about the second death then they would not exist anymore.


Well so far, I must say I like your idea, and it defiantly sounds in line with God. However it leaves quite a few questions open.

Like if the second death was just a second holding place that had fire, surly we who see something about when they get resurrected fro the second death.

Also these lines would need to be explained with an alternative:

Ezekiel 18:4,NKJV:
"Behold, all souls are Mine;
The soul of the father
As well as the soul of the son is Mine;
The soul who sins shall die.

Matthew 10:28, NKJV :
And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. But rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in Gehenna fire.

2 Thessalonians 1:9, NKJV :These shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power,

Malachi 4:1, NKJV :
"For behold, the day is coming,
Burning like an oven,
And all the proud, yes, all who do wickedly will be stubble.
And the day which is coming shall burn them up,"
Says the LORD of hosts,
"That will leave them neither root nor branch.

Malachi 4:3, NKJV :
you shall trample the wicked,
For they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet
On the day that I do this,"
Says the LORD of hosts.

I look forward to hear how you explain these? I want to believe what you tell me.

But rather he’d say, "To Hell with the lot of Them."
So in reality, Satan would be more powerful then 'god' because he was victorious through his deception in the damning of some souls to a supposed eternal hell or extinction.

But remember, I have stated that all will come to see truth in Christ kingdom, with the beast contained. But some still choose death, why I do not know.

"Pretty soon, everybody will get what they deserve, which is ..."Salvation".."Reconciliation".."Restitution".."Restoration".."Immortality".. and "Incorruption" --- now ain't that the coolest thing?
So someday we'll all be friends, at the end of time when God is All in EVERYBODY." (1 Cor.15:20-28 )

I would agree with you up in till “Immortality”, though I like your logic, and believe you 100% right, it would be in God’s character, you would need to provide alternative interpretation for the many references to the concept that some will still choose death, despite truth, despite the containment of the beast, despite forgiveness.

Hope to hear back from you soon,
God bless,
Datsar

 

[Achichem]

For all the posts I see claming heaven and hell as fact, it sure odd that no one has scripture for backing them up.

Yes this is my last bump.

 

[Brain Damage]

For all the posts I see claming heaven and hell as fact, it sure odd that no one has scripture for backing them up.

Yes this is my last bump.

LOL.....Good thread DaTsar.

Don't give up yet mate , wait for the fundies to come.