Discussion on the topic of evolution - Who believes what?

Distances Travelled · Oct 29, 2017

AV1611VET said:
You're not leaving, are you?

I'm still interested in hearing people's opinions on the topic at hand, so not really! It just felt wrong to drop in a question and not add anything to the discussion.

I've had a talk with my mother after reading everything so far. (I'm usually painfully honest, so I explained my concerns about her mental wellbeing and what I'd asked here, and we talked about the varying opinions, which was really interesting. (I was raised in a family where my mother is hugely religious and my dad was... I call him an atheist because I don't know if there's a stronger word for it, so my religious views have always been bounced back and forth like a tennis ball - I tend to try avoiding the topic as much as possible, which didn't feel right in this circumstance.)

I said it at the start - I'm not a religious person, but this discussion and forum is giving me a lot to think about with regards to how to understand and appreciate my mom's point of view, even if I never share it.

Obliquinaut · Oct 29, 2017

AV1611VET said:
Yes, but I'm just as entitled to my opinion as you are.

That you are. I have an opinion about Independent Baptists, do you want to hear it?

USincognito · Oct 29, 2017

Tutorman said:
I agree with your mother, a wise women. Evolution is a fairy tale so belief in God could be explained away.

Please, do go on. I'd especially like to know how evolution is a fairy tale.

Motherofkittens · Oct 29, 2017

Everybodyknows said:
Cool. Do you have any results you could share?

Hmm. I did it awhile go (about a year and a half ago) and some of it is was in other languages. I lived in a bunch of different countries as well as like reading about them. American protestant style creationistism is being pushed on everywhere, but it has only had a modest growth in particularly poor and devastated areas of Africa.

So, I am confident it is still a minority worldwide.

AV1611VET · Oct 29, 2017

Distances Travelled said:
I said it at the start - I'm not a religious person, but this discussion and forum is giving me a lot to think about with regards to how to understand and appreciate my mom's point of view, even if I never share it.

Well it sounds to me like your mom is a wise woman and prayerfully your dad will see the Light before it's too late!

If you don't get anything from my posts ... please consider this one verse of Scripture that is my signature (life) verse:

Galatians 3:26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.

God bless!

AV1611VET · Oct 29, 2017

Obliquinaut said:
That you are. I have an opinion about Independent Baptists, do you want to hear it?

LOL -- welllllllll -- sure.

Why not?

Just keep it legal.

Motherofkittens · Oct 29, 2017

mark kennedy said:
About 1/3 of Americans believe God made man pretty much like he is today:

(US, Belief in Creationist, Gallup)

38%, an all time low, not exactly a nearly extinct minority.

So what are the stats on that?

If I were Jewish or Islamic I might be concerned.

I have defined it repeatedly in the thread. Feel free to browse the thread.

I don't know of a nice way to say this, I don't care. Muslims are not for Jesus and Jews, while a sister religion, are not exactly big on Jesus being their Messiah. Creation is essential doctrine in Christianity, I don't have an opinion regarding other religions.

I was talking worldwide, and I never said it was extinct for Christians. It is a minority though, are you really disagreeing with this? As I said you have to get different stats together, I'll do it, I have already done it before. I have a few health issues though and last I looked it up was a little less than two years ago, I would have to find everything again and ones in English.

Perhaps you don't care about other Abrahamic religious beliefs regarding the creation stories, but I thought it might be informative for the OP. And of course, (to the OP) most other religions have creation stories and a few believe those literally as well.

I have never known anyone who was a "Darwinist " according to your definition. Who are they, where are they?

Mark, I am sure you know that believing Yahweh is creator and believing in a literal genesis are not the same. And I think it could (and has) been debated that "creation" is not essential doctrine anyway. Religions evolve and there are even hybrids, as I already mentioned with the Muslim-Christians and Christian- Muslims. What is "the true way", that isn't for here, especially not with me.

However, if there are gods I don't know why reality would be an "affront" to them. I think it is an affront to your interruption of the bible and Yahweh. Would you agree with that?

YouAreAwesome · Oct 29, 2017

Motherofkittens said:
Darwinist

I thought a "Darwinist" was just a colloquial way of labelling evolutionists i.e. all people who deem the theory of evolution true are Darwinians, Darwinists or even "disciples of Darwin".

Everybodyknows · Oct 29, 2017

YouAreAwesome said:
I thought a "Darwinist" was just a colloquial way of labelling evolutionists i.e. all people who deem the theory of evolution true are Darwinians, Darwinists or even "disciples of Darwin".

Well it goes a bit further sometimes. I personally have a small alter upon which I sacrifice to Lord Darwin some of the weaker species.

AV1611VET · Oct 29, 2017

YouAreAwesome said:
I thought a "Darwinist" was just a colloquial way of labelling evolutionists i.e. all people who deem the theory of evolution true are Darwinians, Darwinists or even "disciples of Darwin".

Charles Darwin is one of them.

AV1611VET · Oct 29, 2017

Everybodyknows said:
Well it goes a bit further sometimes. I personally have a small alter upon which I sacrifice to Lord Darwin some of the weaker species.

Each nation had a primary deity, usually with the deity coupled with man in some way; and the scientific community is no exception.

Sagittarius

Horus

Dagon

Minotaur

Evolution

Obliquinaut · Oct 29, 2017

AV1611VET said:
Charles Darwin is one of them.

ZOMBIE DARWIN!

Obliquinaut · Oct 29, 2017

AV1611VET said:
Each nation had a primary deity, usually with the deity coupled with man in some way; and the scientific community is no exception.

Sagittarius

Horus

Dagon

Minotaur

Evolution

Don't forget this one!

(SOURCE)

pitabread · Oct 29, 2017

YouAreAwesome said:
I thought a "Darwinist" was just a colloquial way of labelling evolutionists i.e. all people who deem the theory of evolution true are Darwinians, Darwinists or even "disciples of Darwin".

Usually when creationists use it it's typically in a derogatory manner.

Obliquinaut · Oct 29, 2017

pitabread said:
Usually when creationists use it it's typically in a derogatory manner.

...and because Darwin is the only evolutionary biologist they can be bothered to learn the name of.

It's easier when you basically just distill nearly 200 years worth of science down to one dude.

USincognito · Oct 29, 2017

YouAreAwesome said:
I thought a "Darwinist" was just a colloquial way of labelling evolutionists i.e. all people who deem the theory of evolution true are Darwinians, Darwinists or even "disciples of Darwin".

It's used as a pejorative by Creationists. I prefer, and use exclusively, the more accurate appellation "science advocate".

Silmarien · Oct 29, 2017

I accept evolution, but reject the materialism and reductionism that so often goes hand in hand with it in secular circles. I would be happy to accept the label "Darwinist", as like Darwin, I'm a staunch teleologist, in the Neo-Aristotelian tradition.

mark kennedy · Oct 29, 2017

Motherofkittens said:
I was talking worldwide, and I never said it was extinct for Christians. It is a minority though, are you really disagreeing with this? As I said you have to get different stats together, I'll do it, I have already done it before. I have a few health issues though and last I looked it up was a little less than two years ago, I would have to find everything again and ones in English.

Perhaps you don't care about other Abrahamic religious beliefs regarding the creation stories, but I thought it might be informative for the OP. And of course, (to the OP) most other religions have creation stories and a few believe those literally as well.

I have never known anyone who was a "Darwinist " according to your definition. Who are they, where are they?

Mark, I am sure you know that believing Yahweh is creator and believing in a literal genesis are not the same. And I think it could (and has) been debated that "creation" is not essential doctrine anyway. Religions evolve and there are even hybrids, as I already mentioned with the Muslim-Christians and Christian- Muslims. What is "the true way", that isn't for here, especially not with me.

However, if there are gods I don't know why reality would be an "affront" to them. I think it is an affront to your interruption of the bible and Yahweh. Would you agree with that?

We believe in one God,
the Father almighty,
maker of heaven and earth,
of all things visible and invisible.

And in one Lord Jesus Christ,
the only Son of God,
begotten from the Father before all ages,
God from God,
Light from Light,
true God from true God,
begotten, not made;
of the same essence as the Father.
Through him all things were made. (Nicene Creed)

Notice God as Creator tops the list, then the incarnation, then another confession of God as Creator. It is definitely essential doctrine and why would I believe the promise of eternal life if I didn't believe God created life in the first place?

Everybodyknows · Oct 29, 2017

mark kennedy said:
We believe in one God,
the Father almighty,
maker of heaven and earth,
of all things visible and invisible.

And in one Lord Jesus Christ,
the only Son of God,
begotten from the Father before all ages,
God from God,
Light from Light,
true God from true God,
begotten, not made;
of the same essence as the Father.
Through him all things were made. (Nicene Creed)

Notice God as Creator tops the list, then the incarnation, then another confession of God as Creator. It is definitely essential doctrine and why would I believe the promise of eternal life if I didn't believe God created life in the first place?

Theory of evolution covers changes in life over time not the origin of life.

mark kennedy · Oct 29, 2017

Everybodyknows said:
Theory of evolution covers changes in life over time not the origin of life.

Evolution isn't a theory, it's a natural phenomenon. It covers adaptations after life begins, that includes fully formed living creatures. There is no theory of evolution, it either happens or it doesn't but it certainly doesn't include everything, that's an assumption.

Discussion on the topic of evolution - Who believes what?

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