Discipline

[Celtic D]

Should Church Leaders / Pastors be allowed to "discipline" their members - why / why not?

If you think they should be allowed, what is acceptable "discipline"?

 

[Mr Dave]

Depends, but if there is a problem, the minister (or equivalent) should probably be able to sort it out by discussing said problem with the member.

 

[Celtic D]

Depends, but if there is a problem, the minister (or equivalent) should probably be able to sort it out by discussing said problem with the member.

What sort of things would you consider as "problems"?

 

[Mr Dave]

What sort of things would you consider as "problems"?

Anything that affected the congregation or the reputation of the church. If there was a member that was causing problems for another member(s) then it would be right for the minister to speak to them and try and resolve it. Of a member was going out into the community and stirring community relations and claiming it was in the name of the church (when it wasn't), it would be right to intervene.

There's a passage about ministers reprimanding members but I can't recall where it is. If it comes to me, I'll post.

 

[s_s]

2 Tim 4v2
Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all long suffering and doctrine.

Titus 2v15
These things speak, and exhort, and rebuke with all authority. Let no man despise thee.

There are others, I know, but the answers are yes, Pastors are allowed to discipline members, as that is part of their job. The discipline is laid out in the Word as well. Reprove and rebuke.

1 Corinthians 5 also speaks of this.

1It is reported commonly that there is fornication among you, and such fornication as is not so much as named among the Gentiles, that one should have his father's wife.

2And ye are puffed up, and have not rather mourned, that he that hath done this deed might be taken away from among you.

3For I verily, as absent in body, but present in spirit, have judged already, as though I were present, concerning him that hath so done this deed,

4In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when ye are gathered together, and my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ,

5To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.

6Your glorying is not good. Know ye not that a little leaven leaveneth the whole lump?

7Purge out therefore the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump, as ye are unleavened. For even Christ our passover is sacrificed for us:

8Therefore let us keep the feast, not with old leaven, neither with the leaven of malice and wickedness; but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth.

9I wrote unto you in an epistle not to company with fornicators:

10Yet not altogether with the fornicators of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or with idolaters; for then must ye needs go out of the world.

11But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolator, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat.

12For what have I to do to judge them also that are without? do not ye judge them that are within?

13But them that are without God judgeth. Therefore put away from among yourselves that wicked person.


If the person does not accept the rebuke and change, the discipline extends to putting them out. It is a rare church or pastor that is prepared to do this.


Personally, I feel it is required. A pastor is a guide - and a guide is no use if he does not tell you when you are heading the wrong way. i know that without the discipline of my (ex) Pastor I would not be as strong or as well-founded as I am now. I'm no artwork but without reproof and rebuke I would still be doing many wrong things (some sinful, some not).

 

[Celtic D]

So what do you consider to be "disciplinable" actions, S_S and how should people be disciplined for these actions? In your own words please, not bible verses, I am well aversed with what the Bible says

 

[minidvr]

Discipline is a hard word in the context of what might happen in a church. If the Pastor is a Servant Leader, his or her example of a live lived through and in Christ blended with authenticity and authority provides the leadership position, but a leadership in collaboration with the laity.

In most churches there is a Council of some sort. PCC for CofE and Elders or Standing Committee's or Vestry for others. If someone does something which hurts others in this community, remedial action needs to be agreed and to be done gently in love. It might consist of listening to those involved and attempting reconciliation, it might need some affirmative action in letting the person causing a problem know that their conduct is damaging others and relationships in the community and a discussion of how to overcome the difficulties it presents. The ultimate sanction is exclusion, but this should be the very last resort.

In reality, most people in this situation will walk away and find somewhere else to worship. My feeling is that this would leave the situation unresolved as those who are damaged by others actions may well feel let down by it.

So discipline in a church needs to be self - discipline where each member respects the dignity of each other and treat others with the love and patience displayed by Jesus Christ to each of us.

In the end Discipleship means different people living, working and worshipping together in community. If we are all disciples there is only one judge of our conduct, and that is our Saviour.

 

[theFijian]

So what do you consider to be "disciplinable" actions, S_S and how should people be disciplined for these actions? In your own words please, not bible verses, I am well aversed with what the Bible says

Are you expecting an exhaustive list? I'm quite sure some instances would depend a lot on the context of the 'actions'.

 

[Celtic D]

Are you expecting an exhaustive list? I'm quite sure some instances would depend a lot on the context of the 'actions'.

No, just some examples

 

[theFijian]

No, just some examples

Here's a handy list:

"neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality, nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God."

 

[savedbygrace05]

So what do you consider to be "disciplinable" actions, S_S and how should people be disciplined for these actions? In your own words please, not bible verses, I am well aversed with what the Bible says

The bible is the only basis for church discipline, if we ignore it or go beyond what it says in imposing church discipline, then we are in fact ignoring God!!

1 Corinthians 2:13

New International Version (NIV)

"This is what we speak, not in words taught us by human wisdom but in words taught by the Spirit, explaining spiritual realities with Spirit-taught words."

 

[Celtic D]

That verse doesn't answer my question.

 

[theFijian]

That verse doesn't answer my question.

So you're interested in bible verses now?

 

[savedbygrace05]

That verse doesn't answer my question.

Maybe not, but a comprehensive reading of God's word will

 

[Celtic D]

So you're interested in bible verses now?

No that's not what I meant, as you well know

 

[Celtic D]

Maybe not, but a comprehensive reading of God's word will

Thanks for the tip but I am well aversed with God's Word

 

[welshman]

Matthew 18:15-17
1 Cor 5:1-13
Hebrews 12:6
Galatians 6:1
2 Cor 2:5-8

The above verses deal with how discipline should be carried out. A Pastor is given authority over a congregation. He is not to be chosen lightly (see the list of requirements given by Paul in the "pastoral epistles") and the reason for church discipline is not to judge others but to restore a brother or sister in the Lord.

 

[theFijian]

...and the reason for church discipline is not to judge others but to restore a brother or sister in the Lord.

^^This. Some Christians have had bad experiences with church leadership in the past and then assume that all church leadership is bad\invalid and has absolutely no authority over the indivudial Christian. While it is always sad and greatly regrettable when Christians are treated badly by those in authority the baby ought not to be thrown out with the bathwater, discipline is a mark of a biblcal church and willingness to submit to discipline is a requirement of all Christians. As already succinctly stated, church discipline is for the spiritual benefit of the Christian, not for the Lording it over of others.

 

[welshman]

Amen. I have seen this done and the Lord really brought everyone together, so much so, you could feel His presence there in the meeting.

God's Word is there for a purpose

^^This. Some Christians have had bad experiences with church leadership in the past and then assume that all church leadership is bad\invalid and has absolutely no authority over the indivudial Christian. While it is always sad and greatly regrettable when Christians are treated badly by those in authority the baby ought not to be thrown out with the bathwater, discipline is a mark of a biblcal church and willingness to submit to discipline is a requirement of all Christians. As already succinctly stated, church discipline is for the spiritual benefit of the Christian, not for the Lording it over of others.

 

[savedbygrace05]

Prov 10: 17 "Whoever heeds discipline shows the way to life,
but whoever ignores correction leads others astray."