Disciple Study

[kitkat60]

SandyLou.....be safe! YIKES!!!!! How scary! Is your house/apartment/condo ok other than the power outages? Have you had any curfew problems? Will be saying prayers for you!!!

We are doing Jesus the One and Only...it should be 11 weeks, but we are doing over 22 weeks....in addition I am a single mom, two teenagers, and work (and am a CPA, so the hours escalate in Jan-March) . So to commit to being gone two out of every 5 week nights for the next 22 weeks on top of everything else sounded like to much. I definitely gave it to the Lord in prayer. I hate to start something and not finish it, and I want my Bible Study to be a positive thing in my life, rather than a chore and something that makes me stress. By the time I learned about Disciples, the Beth Moore books had already been ordered, so I was committed, so to speak!

 

[Origen]

Our church also mentioned that Disciple I was a prerequisite for JITG and the other Disciple classes, but if someone felt strongly about it, we let them know the level of work and time involved, and then waived the prerequisisite (don't tell the Cokesbury police).

Well, in reading all the brochures for JITG and Christian Believer, there is no "official Cokesbury" pre-req mentioned.

Actually, it is mentioned prominently (set apart and in bold) on the Jesus in the Gospels website: "Completion of DISCIPLE: BECOMING DISCIPLES THROUGH BIBLE STUDY is prerequisite for JESUS IN THE GOSPELS" (Cokesbury). The prerequisite is also mentioned in the free promotional literature, the JITG handbook (p.3). It is also emphasized during trainers' instruction.

That said, and as I mentioned, we've waived the prerequisite if folks could not be discouraged and understand the commitment involved; I know of more churches than not, however, that wouldn't waive the prerequisite. (The difference, perhaps, is that they offer Disciple I every year, and we, a smaller church, seem to cycle through the series, offering only one or two per year; I've heard of larger churches that have more than 15 various Disciple class offered at any given time.)

Omigosh! No traffic lights tell the Cokesbury police to come direct traffic!

If we get busted, I'll send them your way!

 

[SandyLou]

SandyLou.....be safe! YIKES!!!!! How scary! Is your house/apartment/condo ok other than the power outages? Have you had any curfew problems? Will be saying prayers for you!!!

We are doing Jesus the One and Only...it should be 11 weeks, but we are doing over 22 weeks....in addition I am a single mom, two teenagers, and work (and am a CPA, so the hours escalate in Jan-March) . So to commit to being gone two out of every 5 week nights for the next 22 weeks on top of everything else sounded like to much. I definitely gave it to the Lord in prayer. I hate to start something and not finish it, and I want my Bible Study to be a positive thing in my life, rather than a chore and something that makes me stress. By the time I learned about Disciples, the Beth Moore books had already been ordered, so I was committed, so to speak!

I think my house is okay. I haven't been able to get up on the roof and double check that. But everything seems all right. The druggie boys that I fed during the storm surprised me yesterday by clearing most of the branches and limbs.
I still don't have power and had to cancel my ALPHA group last nite because of the curfew. Hopefully the grocery stores will be able to get food in again today. They had to trash everything because of the power outtage - and spent yesterday scrubbing all the coolers and freezers. The restaurants had to do the same. many areas had power restored alst nite though (just not MY house! )
The church I used to go to did the same thing with the Beth Moore studies. . . .doubled the # to fit time constraints. It's sooo worth it. She's very gifted at expressing her points. I was blessed to meet her at a women's conference and talk with her for a bit. Lovely lady and incredibly strong. I'm glad you are going to be able to devote the time to the study that it deserves.

 

[SandyLou]

Actually, . . . . The prerequisite is also mentioned in the free promotional literature, the JITG handbook (p.3).
(The difference, perhaps, is that they offer Disciple I every year, and we, a smaller church, seem to cycle through the series, offering only one or two per year; I've heard of larger churches that have more than 15 various Disciple class offered at any given time.)

Oooo thanks! I'll have to go back and re-read that literature! obviously I missed it or was reading a very old version!
and yes, I'm at a large church (4,900 members and many more attendees). Disciple 1 has 2 grps on Sundays, 3 on Wednesday, and then there is another group that does Disciple 1 over 2 years. Those are just the Disciple 1 groups. Then we also have 2,3,4; Christian Believer, and JITG. . .in the series.
The first year JITG and CB studies were offered I did dig my heels in a bit about wanting to take CB. They were pretty adamant in saying NOPE. But it all works out.
Looking forward to hearing what you think when you begin JITG.

 

[wvmtnkid]

Origen-I had not heard the information about Jesus in the Gospels being the first course in a second series of Disciple. So this means there will be more offered after JITG? That really makes me happy. I have really enjoyed the Disciple series and I hope the continue to offer these studies.

I believe we have waived Disciple 1 as being a pre-requisite to, I know, at least Christian Believer and some of the other Disciple studies. I took CB with a fellow who had not taken any other Disciple classes. However, our Christian Ed director will not let someone take Disciple 4 without taking at least 2 or 3 of the other Disciple classes.

 

[SandyLou]

Ya'll will love this - or it will break your hearts. . . . .
this past week my opinionated facilitator told us:
"the laws in Leviticus were stupid and just made up so that God could show He COULD make the people jump thru hoops"

Omigosh! I almost came OUT of my chair! for him!

 

[kitkat60]

Wow. What did people say to THAT?????

 

[SandyLou]

Ya know Suzie, I think that's what bothers me the most. And I didn't realize it until you just asked that! No one else seems to notice or care!
During the 1st class when we were all saying 'why we are taking Disciple' - everyone in the group (except me) said because they had not READ the entire Bible or hadn't read it since 3rd grade.
And that's scary - that maybe they are thinking this dude is right?!?!
Or they don't care?
Thanks for asking that - it really helped me understand.


How's the Beth Moore study going?

 

[kitkat60]

Its going great---we are only on the second week, but I am really liking it. She is a little more laid back than Kay Arthur, but still lots of information.

 

[Origen]

Ya know Suzie, I think that's what bothers me the most. And I didn't realize it until you just asked that! No one else seems to notice or care!

During the 1st class when we were all saying 'why we are taking Disciple' - everyone in the group (except me) said because they had not READ the entire Bible or hadn't read it since 3rd grade.

And that's scary - that maybe they are thinking this dude is right?!?!
Or they don't care?

Thanks for asking that - it really helped me understand.

SandyLou, This may sound premature, but I'd like to plant the seed that you may be hearing a call to teach. Just something to think about while you enjoy this and later Disciple classes. I can tell you from my personal experience that taking the Disciple Training Seminar and later facilitating classes has been a life-transforming process.

 

[kitkat60]

I have been thinking about this and what the best way to handle it might be. Its possible that everyone is just scared to contradict the teacher....or like you have suggested, they think because that person is the teacher, that they know it all.

Is your class structured so that there is discussion? Or Lecture only? I think when something is said that is blatently out there, you should ask for clarification. Nothing wrong with that!

YOu will have to keep us posted as to how this progresses!

 

[SandyLou]

SandyLou, This may sound premature, but I'd like to plant the seed that you may be hearing a call to teach. Just something to think about while you enjoy this and later Disciple classes. I can tell you from my personal experience that taking the Disciple Training Seminar and later facilitating classes has been a life-transforming process.

I do facilitate an adult discussion class, ALPHA, and NETWORK. I'm also a layity speaker and Young Life leader. Maybe this is why I notice these things, why they disturb me.

I was told by soooo many that the "hard part" of Disciple 1 was the OT section - call me crazy, but I love the opprtunity to delve into the old stories and try to imagine the times and atomosphere. The "blood and guts" wars, etc. are nothing compared to the blood and sacrifice of NT Jesus - so it's interesting, not boring or difficult to me. Is that weird?

 

[SandyLou]

I have been thinking about this and what the best way to handle it might be. Its possible that everyone is just scared to contradict the teacher....or like you have suggested, they think because that person is the teacher, that they know it all.

Is your class structured so that there is discussion? Or Lecture only? I think when something is said that is blatently out there, you should ask for clarification. Nothing wrong with that!

YOu will have to keep us posted as to how this progresses!

Well Suzie, as you probably remember, Disciple is set up to be discussion. Our group doesn't get to discuss much tho. These guys seem afraid of silence - altho my training says silence is good and if you let it sit eventually SOMEONE in the group will talk - - but these guys totally dominate the talk. I did try to interrupt "C" about his remark, saying it sounded cynical and asking why he felt that way - - his response was "Because it just is stupid. Now let's move on." and he changed the subject. One of the other group members said she calls the class "The C and J Show" (the 2 leaders) because they will talk over anyone who tries to inject or interrupt their talking. She says she feels like she's just 'in the audience'.
Our Education pastor is on vacation this week but I went in Monday and set up an appt with the secretary to talk with her when she returns.

How's the Beth Moore study?

 

[wvmtnkid]

Oh, God's laws to the Israelites were stupid? Hmmm......I know that we are not under the Old Covenant anymore, but personal I wouldn't say the laws are stupid. I think they teach us the character and holiness of God. I think that is pretty far from stupid. Perhaps they just see them as laws to obey and not teachings on holiness from the God we serve.

 

[SandyLou]

Oh, God's laws to the Israelites were stupid? Hmmm......I know that we are not under the Old Covenant anymore, but personal I wouldn't say the laws are stupid. I think they teach us the character and holiness of God. I think that is pretty far from stupid. Perhaps they just see them as laws to obey and not teachings on holiness from the God we serve.

And didn't the early Israelites NEED such structure? I mean, God was being a pretty good Father, spelling things out clearly and concisely. Coming thru the journey with Moses they pretty much showed they had short term memories, and rarely satisfied ("we're hungry" Here's manna from heaven "but we need meat with that" wahhhhhh wahhhh wahhhhh) He tried time and again to show them love and save them - did they apprecaiate that? Not for long.

 

[kitkat60]

I think most people would agree that the rules were there for a reason, not just some arbitrary whim of the God.

I guess this is what I would do. I would continue to attend of course, and would continue to try to encourage discussion rather than lecture, perhaps by asking questions such as "what do you all in the group think of ....." Maybe these facilitators are just used to not being questioned, and it sounds like you have some kindred spirits in there. A good facilitator will know that every time they go through the bible, that they are going to learn something new! That NOBODY knows it all, except for the Lord!

I just hate for something that should be so wonderful for you to have a problem with it!

While I think talking to the powers that be is a good idea, I would suspect that the facilitators are doing this out of the goodness of their hearts, and there probably isn't much that can be done about it. Its pretty hard to get volunteers in this day and age!

Re Beth Moore....I need to do some catch up tonight! I know you are supposed to spread it out, much like Disciples, and that is one of those things I haven't quite evolved to yet!

Speaking of Beth Moore, has anyone read the book Praying God's Word? Each chapter is about a different thing that we battle---it looks really good, but I haven't picked it up yet.

 

[wvmtnkid]

kitkat-I purchased that book by Beth Moore not too long ago, and the prayer journal that goes along with it. I haven't gotten to do much with it yet though. It looks interesting, I have read the introduction and flipped through it, just not read for any "meat" yet. I hope to get started in it soon, however it might be after the holidays before I get much of a chance. It's the first thing by Beth Moore I have read.

Sandy Lou-I think speaking to your Education Pastor is a good idea. I shared some of your experiences with one of our Disciple leaders this evening, and she was surprised at some of their comments that you have shared with us. But kitkat makes a good point, leaders are sometimes hard to find, especially ones that will go to the training. But at least the Pastor will have some idea of what is going on and may be able to have a chat with these fellows about their leadership style.