Discerning truth

[Optimax]

That answers the second question about how to interpret a scripture, but doesn't answer the first question about discerning which scripture is true in the first place.

Let's say I have available to me the Hebrew Bible, New Testament, Pali Canon, Bhagavad Gita, and Qur'an. How would I go about discerning which, if any of them, is/are true?

-Lyn

The Bible say the King James Version although harder to understand is an excellent study Bible when used with concordances and other Language helps.

With the computer one can obtain programs that put at the fingertips, Word studies and other helps to check out what it is saying.

I have not studied in depth any of the books you mentioned. Some I have not even looked at.

Consider this as the key to truth.

Study to learn what God's purpose was in creating.

What did God have in mind when he created man.

What was His Plan.

What does He pursue.

Most of what is taught has to do with what man thinks the purposes, plans and pursuits are.

One of the things about learning truth is learning the right questions.

Some of the "right ones" most of us ask in different ways.

Such as;

1. Who am I
2. Is there a purpose for life (being here).
3. Is there a purpose for me being.

 

[Penumbra]

The Bible say the King James Version although harder to understand is an excellent study Bible when used with concordances and other Language helps.

With the computer one can obtain programs that put at the fingertips, Word studies and other helps to check out what it is saying.

I have not studied in depth any of the books you mentioned. Some I have not even looked at.

Which ones have you looked at? What made you decide to look at the one(s) you did, and not look at the ones you did not? How did you determine a starting point for your search?

Consider this as the key to truth.

Study to learn what God's purpose was in creating.

What did God have in mind when he created man.

What was His Plan.

What does He pursue.

Most of what is taught has to do with what man thinks the purposes, plans and pursuits are.

Now, you say to study to learn what God's purpose was, what God had in mind, what God's plan is, and what God pursues.

How do I determine where to study or obtain this information? How can I determine which collection of knowledge contains the accurate data to answer these questions?

One of the things about learning truth is learning the right questions.

Some of the "right ones" most of us ask in different ways.

Such as;

1. Who am I
2. Is there a purpose for life (being here).
3. Is there a purpose for me being.

I agree- those questions are pretty good questions to ask. But, once someone does ask one of those questions, what is the best way to determine the answer to them? That is the question of the thread.

-Lyn

 

[bricklayer]

The most significant example of something I cannot afirm is the idea of a sovereign being subject, because it violates the law of non-cotradiction, among others.

 

[Optimax]

Which ones have you looked at? What made you decide to look at the one(s) you did, and not look at the ones you did not? How did you determine a starting point for your search?

Now, you say to study to learn what God's purpose was, what God had in mind, what God's plan is, and what God pursues.

How do I determine where to study or obtain this information? How can I determine which collection of knowledge contains the accurate data to answer these questions?

I agree- those questions are pretty good questions to ask. But, once someone does ask one of those questions, what is the best way to determine the answer to them? That is the question of the thread.

-Lyn

There is only one book I know of that has the answers.

That is the Bible.

The Bible I have accepted as the final authority on every issue of life.

All the answers are there.

However, it is not a "one time read".

 

[bricklayer]

what one finds in the bible is determind by what one looks for, and that by providence

 

[Penumbra]

There is only one book I know of that has the answers.

That is the Bible.

The Bible I have accepted as the final authority on every issue of life.

All the answers are there.

However, it is not a "one time read".

Can you elaborate as to how you have determined that the Bible has all the answers?

what one finds in the bible is determind by what one looks for, and that by providence

Can you expand on what you mean by providence, there?

Are you saying that the god(s) will direct people to the appropriate scripture? As in, it is by providence that some people read certain scriptures, and that other people read certain other scriptures? Or do you mean something different there?

-Lyn

 

[Optimax]

Can you elaborate as to how you have determined that the Bible has all the answers?
-Lyn

Easy!

I have learned the answers to those questions mentioned as well as many more answers.

I am still learning. Will be from now own.

 

[Penumbra]

Easy!

I have learned the answers to those questions mentioned as well as many more answers.

I am still learning. Will be from now own.

What answers did you learn, and how did you verify that those are indeed the correct answers?

-Lyn

 

[Optimax]

What answers did you learn, and how did you verify that those are indeed the correct answers?

-Lyn

What did God have in mind when he created man.

What was His Plan.

What does He pursue.

1. Who am I
2. Is there a purpose for life (being here).
3. Is there a purpose for me being.

Before one can "verify" the correct answers one must learn the Bible to a certain degree.

The reason being that it is like a puzzle.

Takes a lot of effort to get enough of the pieces to start fitting them together.

The advantage with the Bible is that it is Truth.

Again one can see that it is Truth when enough is learned about what it is about to start seeing the story of God, creation, man and man's place in it.

 

[Penumbra]

If two people have contradicting views of a God a third party should ask each person two prove unequivocally that the others God does not exist and then come back and tell the third person why their God does exist. I would venture to say that this would be close to impossible.

I notice you say "close" to impossible, and therefore do not dismiss it as completely impossible for someone to prove their deity exists.

What evidence would you take as valid concerning the nature of divine beings or ideas?

-Lyn

 

[bricklayer]

Providence is the opposite of chance, spontinaity, indendent trials, etc.

I am left to believe in a sovereign God. Were chance to exist,
God would be subject to it. Therefore, God would not be sovereign.

 

[Penumbra]

What did God have in mind when he created man.

What was His Plan.

What does He pursue.

1. Who am I
2. Is there a purpose for life (being here).
3. Is there a purpose for me being.

Before one can "verify" the correct answers one must learn the Bible to a certain degree.

The reason being that it is like a puzzle.

Takes a lot of effort to get enough of the pieces to start fitting them together.

The advantage with the Bible is that it is Truth.

Again one can see that it is Truth when enough is learned about what it is about to start seeing the story of God, creation, man and man's place in it.

So I'm trying to walk through your thought process here to understand it as clearly as possible.

1) You started off with a list of questions, which I think are quite reasonable questions myself.

2) You then feel that the Bible takes a lot of learning and puzzle-piece fitting before one can verify any answers found in it. At this point in your thought process I have to stop and ask what made you pick the Bible as your starting point. This is still an unanswered question- why the Bible as opposed to the Qur'an, Bhagavad Gita, Pali Canon, or some other scripture. What made you decide to spend so much time fitting the pieces together of this specific text as opposed to those other texts? Why was this your starting point?

3) You then seem to argue that truth becomes self-evident, but I don't see how you've demonstrated that. You say you can learn truth once you see the story of this deity, creation, and man's place in it, but you haven't elaborated on how you have determined that this story is true. Can you expand on it? Once you have spent a great deal of time understanding the story, how have you determined that it is an accurate story?

-Lyn

 

[Penumbra]

Providence is the opposite of chance, spontinaity, indendent trials, etc.

I am left to believe in a sovereign God. Were chance to exist,
God would be subject to it. Therefore, God would not be sovereign.

Ok so you believe in a sovereign god. I don't quite know what you mean by "left with" since you haven't demonstrated any sort of refutation of chance, spontaneity, or independent trials, but let's just run with it anyway for the sake of discussion.

Now, you've stated earlier that
"what one finds in the bible is determind by what one looks for, and that by providence"

Can you elaborate on that? Are you saying that god determines what people look for in the Bible, and what they find? Does he do this for all scriptures.

I mean, let's say I've read a number of scriptures. Has this deity led me to all of them? Has he determined what I am looking for in them?

-Lyn

 

[Optimax]

So I'm trying to walk through your thought process here to understand it as clearly as possible.

1) You started off with a list of questions, which I think are quite reasonable questions myself.

2) You then feel that the Bible takes a lot of learning and puzzle-piece fitting before one can verify any answers found in it. At this point in your thought process I have to stop and ask what made you pick the Bible as your starting point. This is still an unanswered question- why the Bible as opposed to the Qur'an, Bhagavad Gita, Pali Canon, or some other scripture. What made you decide to spend so much time fitting the pieces together of this specific text as opposed to those other texts? Why was this your starting point?

3) You then seem to argue that truth becomes self-evident, but I don't see how you've demonstrated that. You say you can learn truth once you see the story of this deity, creation, and man's place in it, but you haven't elaborated on how you have determined that this story is true. Can you expand on it? Once you have spent a great deal of time understanding the story, how have you determined that it is an accurate story?

-Lyn

#2 Only answer I can give you is I accepted the Bible as a book from God.

Can't really tell you why.


#3, Again, how do you verify truth, such as the Bible to someone else.

Each person has to either accept it or not based on their own study.
It has to do with having a personal relationship with God through Jesus.

 

[bricklayer]

You're getting closer, Penumbra.
God is sovereign, absolutely sovereign, or He is absolutely not.

The implications are not limited anymore than is his sovereignty.

 

[Penumbra]

#2 Only answer I can give you is I accepted the Bible as a book from God.

Can't really tell you why.


#3, Again, how do you verify truth, such as the Bible to someone else.

Each person has to either accept it or not based on their own study.

So as far as this part is concerned, are you saying that there is no way to discern truth about god? You accepted it, but can't explain why.

You say each person has to accept it or not, which can be said of any scripture, so I'm basically asking for criteria that one should use to determine whether they should accept or reject a given scripture.

It has to do with having a personal relationship with God through Jesus.

So how did you come to have a personal relationship with God through Jesus, how have you verified that the being you are in a relationship is indeed God?

-Lyn

 

[bricklayer]

As for why I say that i am left to believe this or that, please refer to post#18, of this thread. It is a start, and I relish any opportunity to expand of my faith further.

 

[Optimax]

So as far as this part is concerned, are you saying that there is no way to discern truth about god? You accepted it, but can't explain why.

You say each person has to accept it or not, which can be said of any scripture, so I'm asking for basically criteria that one should use to determine whether they should accept or reject a given scripture.


So how did you come to have a personal relationship with God through Jesus, how have you verified that the being you are in a relationship is indeed God?

-Lyn

The best answer I can give you on a relationship with God is I know Him.

I will know Him even more as time goes on just as in any relationship.

Another way I know is that what the Bible teaches life issues work.

That is an acid test with anything. Does it work.

God created.

The Bible is the manual on life and how to live successfully.

Just like when you buy something you get a manual from the manufacturer that explains how it works.

 

[Penumbra]

You're getting closer, Penumbra.
God is sovereign, absolutely sovereign, or He is absolutely not.

The implications are not limited anymore than is his sovereignty.

To what implications are you referring?

I asked a question before, but you did not answer it. I don't know if you've missed it or intentionally decided not to answer it.

Stating that god is sovereign is not answering my original question about how one should discern truth about spiritual beings (like god) or metaphysical ideas (like heaven/hell, reincarnation, salvation, liberation, commandments, and so forth).

The question I've asked most recently to you, while trying to get you to elaborate on your points, as whether or not you believe that this sovereign god you believe in draws people towards certain scriptures or fills their head with things to look for in those scriptures. Here is my latest question again, copied and pasted from my previous post to you:

I mean, let's say I've read a number of scriptures. Has this deity led me to all of them? Has he determined what I am looking for in them?

What are your thoughts/answers to that question?

-Lyn

 

[bricklayer]

I'm sorry, if I haven't been clear.

Truth is that which corrosponds to its predicate.

For an idea to be true, it cannot violate the first principles of logic:
existence
identity
non-contradiction
exclusion
causality
necessity
contingency
existential: causality, necessity and contingency
analogy

These are the elements of reason.