'Disaster for our country': Evangelical Trump critics lament election outcome

[JSRG]

That's another things that was devastated in this election. Confidence that polls are credible. They very much said that everywhere it was neck and neck between the two candidates. Seeing they were so wrong why does anyone allow them to cause stress before any election? Will we ever learn? Could it be that people weren't telling the truth in answering who they were voting for? Were they afraid of some retribution? If such was the mindset of massive amounts of people then what's that say about democracy in the States where people are terrified to tell the truth?

The polls didn't say they would be "neck and neck" between the two candidates. They said that the polls were too close to call and that it was therefore impossible for them to try to determine who would be the winner based on just the polls.

Most of the polls had a margin of error of about 3-5% (depending on the poll). So let's say that a poll was 50% Harris, 50% Trump. That means we could have, while staying within the margin of error, end up with 53% Harris 47% Trump (a fairly significant Harris win) or 47% Harris 53% Trump (a fairly significant Trump win). Of course, even a perfectly conducted poll that is able to perfectly take into account questions like whether people are telling them false things (which they do try to compensate for) means it still has only a 95% chance of being within the margin of error, so there's always that chance it falls outside.

With that in mind, let's take Pennsylvania, a notable swing state a lot of attention was paid to. Aggregate polling put them at virtually tied; 270towin actually did have a tie (48.2% Harris 48.2% Trump) while 538 had 47.9% Harris 47.7% Trump, and Silver Bulletin had 48.0% Harris 48.81% Trump. The other aggregators had similar numbers. Pennsylvania in the end had Harris get 48.5% and Trump 50.6%. That's very much within the margin of error, and was pretty close to the aggregate polls.

Now let's compare Wisconsin, another swing state that got a lot of attention. The final numbers were 48.7% Harris 49.7% Trump, closer than Pennsylvania. The aggregate polling usually put Harris as having a slight lead; aggregate polls here were saying things like 48.8% Harris 47.7% Trump, or 48.3% Harris 47.3% Trump, or 48.7% Harris 47.7% Trump. Again, the final results are easily within the margin of errors.

We see the same sort of thing in other swing states like Michigan or North Carolina. From the places I looked at, where polls seem to have been the most off were actually the non-swing states; I don't think anyone sensible was expecting Trump to lose Texas, but even considering margins of error, he did better than expected.

The places where the polls seem to have been the most off were actually the non-swing states, like Texas. I don't think anyone reasonable was expecting Trump to lose Texas, but he still blasted past what the polls were saying (aggregate polling here gave us numbers like 44.4% Harris 51.8% Trump or 43.8% Harris 51.7% Trump. The final numbers were 42.38% Harris 56.22% Trump).

The real problem with the polls isn't the polls themselves, but how people misunderstand them. "The polls are too close to call" (which was true) gets misunderstood by the general public as expecting the final numbers to be extremely tight, which isn't what the polls are actually saying. Again, close polls can mean a razor-thin election decided by 0.1%, but can also mean a fairly comfortable win of 5%.

 

[RileyG]

Way way better than the party of putting the immigrants in "camps," attacking Medicare, Medicaid, Social Security, Veterans Healthcare, and ending the Affordable Care Act, promising to wreak vengeance on "enemies" who might have gotten on the list just because of the party they belong to.
"Blessed peacemakers" don't start insurrections, tell police it's "OK" to rough up suspects, make speeches--one or two sentences of which would be censored by this site and many others.
I could go on and on.

Would Jesus support ripping children out of their mothers womb or promoting the re-definition of marriage?

Neither side, in my opinion, is very Christian.

Take care

 

[Vambram]

Way way better than the party of putting the immigrants in "camps," attacking Medicare, Medicaid, Social Security, Veterans Healthcare, and ending the Affordable Care Act, promising to wreak vengeance on "enemies" who might have gotten on the list just because of the party they belong to.
"Blessed peacemakers" don't start insurrections, tell police it's "OK" to rough up suspects, make speeches--one or two sentences of which would be censored by this site and many others.
I could go on and on.

Instead of simply disagreeing with a lot of what is in your post of actually happening, (and as a US army veteran with 27 years of service, & as a born again Christian I do in fact disagree with a lot of your post), I want to ask this question. Does the history of King David and also King Solomon give evidence that they are two of the greatest kings of Israel? Although both men sinned greatly in the eyes of God as well as according to the standards of the Law of Moses, did the Lord God still bless them and Israel with blessings to a greater degree than God blessed most (if not all) of the rest of the kings of Israel & Judah?
You see, on these forums we have all gone to great lengths defending our politics and our political views as well as political leaders. However, we should also recognize that our political parties and political leaders on all sides of the spectrum are all very fallible humans and all sinners. Therefore, Christians like myself vote for leaders who will not attack religious freedoms. Sadly, the ruling establishment elites who have been ruling America for decades don't care at all that their policies are immoral. THEY don't really care about an individual's right to freely, by words & actions, express religious & Biblical beliefs.

 

[Fantine]

The only religious freedoms repressed are those that trample on the freedom of other believers.
I am a Christian, but I don't want to see Christianity in a straitjacket enshrined as the dictatorial law of the land.
Here's my desire for all: Worship freely, but don't impose your beliefs on others.

 

[RileyG]

The only religious freedoms repressed are those that trample on the freedom of other believers.
I am a Christian, but I don't want to see Christianity in a straitjacket enshrined as the dictatorial law of the land.
Here's my desire for all: Worship freely, but don't impose your beliefs on others.

How is wanting all to have a right to life imposing your beliefs onto others?

I truly don’t understand.

 

[jas3]

Would Jesus support ripping children out of their mothers womb or promoting the re-definition of marriage?

He'll never answer these questions.

 

[RDKirk]

Would Jesus support ripping children out of their mothers womb or promoting the re-definition of marriage?

Neither side, in my opinion, is very Christian.

Take care

Jesus would not support using Caesar's sword to prevent it, either. Jesus would not use carnal weapons, but the weapons of His own spiritual warfare.

 

[Fantine]

How is wanting all to have a right to life imposing your beliefs onto others?

I truly don’t understand.

We are a poly-theistic country and you want everyone to abide by your religion's definitions. Some have interpreted birth control pills and IUDs as abortifacient.
I sincerely want you to practice the tenets of your religion and to accord others the same freedom.
In the meantime, no such differences exist with the already born---but the concern and effort to alleviate what kills and harms children varies greatly among religions.
I would like to see all religions be strong advocates for children and put their prayers, efforts, money, and yes, votes to that end.

 

[jas3]

Jesus would not support using Caesar's sword to prevent it, either. Jesus would not use carnal weapons, but the weapons of His own spiritual warfare.

"But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he [the ruler] beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil."

 

[Ignatius the Kiwi]

We are a poly-theistic country and you want everyone to abide by your religion's definitions. Some have interpreted birth control pills and IUDs as abortifacient.
I sincerely want you to practice the tenets of your religion and to accord others the same freedom.
In the meantime, no such differences exist with the already born---but the concern and effort to alleviate what kills and harms children varies greatly among religions.
I would like to see all religions be strong advocates for children and put their prayers, efforts, money, and yes, votes to that end.

As Christians we don't support abortion, period Fantine. Please rethink your position and align yourself with your own Catholicism. Abortion is evil.

 

[RileyG]

We are a poly-theistic country and you want everyone to abide by your religion's definitions. Some have interpreted birth control pills and IUDs as abortifacient.
I sincerely want you to practice the tenets of your religion and to accord others the same freedom.
In the meantime, no such differences exist with the already born---but the concern and effort to alleviate what kills and harms children varies greatly among religions.
I would like to see all religions be strong advocates for children and put their prayers, efforts, money, and yes, votes to that end.

Fair enough

 

[RileyG]

As Christians we don't support abortion, period Fantine. Please rethink your position and align yourself with your own Catholicism. Abortion is evil.

Amen. It’s the greatest evil in our generation.

 

[RDKirk]

"But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he [the ruler] beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil."

It's very ironic that right wing Christians like to trot that verse out under Republican presidents, but completely forget it under Democrat presidents.

But:

For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds.

 

[RileyG]

Jesus would not support using Caesar's sword to prevent it, either. Jesus would not use carnal weapons, but the weapons of His own spiritual warfare.

He would speak out for those condemned to die. Remember the woman caught in adultery? He was on the side of the oppressed.

 

[RDKirk]

He would speak out for those condemned to die. Remember the woman caught in adultery? He was on the side of the oppressed.

Which is the manifestation of God's own desire:

“Do I take any pleasure in the death of the wicked? … Rather, am I not pleased when they turn from their ways and live?” Ezekiel 18

"As surely as I live, declares the Sovereign Lord, I take no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but rather that they turn from their ways and live. " -- Ezekiel 33

As Joseph told the Pharaoh, when God says something twice, He means it.

 

[RileyG]

Which is the manifestation of God's own desire:

“Do I take any pleasure in the death of the wicked? … Rather, am I not pleased when they turn from their ways and live?” Ezekiel 18

"As surely as I live, declares the Sovereign Lord, I take no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but rather that they turn from their ways and live. " -- Ezekiel 33

As Joseph told the Pharaoh, when God says something twice, He means it.

Amen!

No disagreement from me.

 

[Vambram]

Historic: CNN's Election Numbers Show How Dominant Trump's Win Really Was

Historic: CNN's Election Numbers Show How Dominant Trump's Win Really Was

"These are the types of groups you never would’ve thought that Donald Trump would’ve gained so much support among eight years ago."

www.westernjournal.com

As the numbers from Tuesday’s election get clearer, the dominance of Donald Trump’s victory gets clearer, too.

CNN data guru Harry Enten laid out the details Friday on “CNN News Central,” highlighting the generational significance of the election’s Republican romp.

“When was the last time a party gained in so many different places?” Enten said. “You have to go all the way to back to nineteen hundred and ninety-two, when Bill Clinton improved on Michael Dukakis’ performance in 49 states, plus the District of Columbia.”

 

[jas3]

It's very ironic that right wing Christians like to trot that verse out under Republican presidents, but completely forget it under Democrat presidents.

The point of the passage is that God accomplishes His will either actively, in the case of faithful governments, or permissively, in the case of evil governments, and therefore Christians can't declare themselves to be separate from these authorities just because they're Christians. So as Christians who are tied to the US government by being subject to it (and in some sense being a part of it through the democratic process), we have a moral imperative to carry out God's will in defending the defenseless.

 

[Fantine]

Historic: CNN's Election Numbers Show How Dominant Trump's Win Really Was

Historic: CNN's Election Numbers Show How Dominant Trump's Win Really Was

"These are the types of groups you never would’ve thought that Donald Trump would’ve gained so much support among eight years ago."

www.westernjournal.com

As the numbers from Tuesday’s election get clearer, the dominance of Donald Trump’s victory gets clearer, too.

CNN data guru Harry Enten laid out the details Friday on “CNN News Central,” highlighting the generational significance of the election’s Republican romp.

“When was the last time a party gained in so many different places?” Enten said. “You have to go all the way to back to nineteen hundred and ninety-two, when Bill Clinton improved on Michael Dukakis’ performance in 49 states, plus the District of Columbia.”

Biden won by 8 million votes--and his opponent claimed to.have won.
Now he won by 3.6 million votes and calls it a landslide. By his 2020 math, it would be a win for Kamala.

 

[RDKirk]

The point of the passage is that God accomplishes His will either actively, in the case of faithful governments, or permissively, in the case of evil governments, and therefore Christians can't declare themselves to be separate from these authorities just because they're Christians. So as Christians who are tied to the US government by being subject to it (and in some sense being a part of it through the democratic process), we have a moral imperative to carry out God's will in defending the defenseless.

To be separate is not to be disobedient.

An example is Daniel, who directly served a pagan king and was even the best servant of the pagan king.

Yet, when that kingdom was overturned, it's royalty executed, and its bureaucracy decimated...Daniel was so separated from that government that the invading army overlooked him.