Direct observations of an ancient universe.

[Barry Desborough]

It's not that they don't understand.

They're willing to set general relativity and other sciences aside, if it'll make the Bible or us look bad.

Um, how do you explain why pulsar frequencies are observed not to vary, just as we would expect if c was constant?

 

[AV1611VET]

Um, how do you explain why pulsar frequencies are observed not to vary,

I don't.

 

[Barry Desborough]

I don't.

As I said, thanks for playing. Now go playing elsewhere.

 

[FrankDux]

" Kanned Ham " *giggles*

 

[AV1611VET]

As I said, thanks for playing. Now go playing elsewhere.

Make me.

 

[Barry Desborough]

Make me.

Silly person.

 

[driewerf]

As I said, thanks for playing. Now go playing elsewhere.

Hey, don't do that!
I still have unanswered questions for AV1611VET.

 

[Justatruthseeker]

Um, how do you explain why pulsar frequencies are observed not to vary, just as we would expect if c was constant?

The frequency of light has nothing to do with the speed of light. The frequency of light can vary from one end of the spectrum to the other, yet light remains constant. But you didn't answer my post as to why light is constant?

So according to you since light is constant we would expect the frequency of light to remain constant, yet it varies from the ultraviolet to the infrared.......

But personally I would look to electromagnetic principles since we produce stable frequency pulses of light in the laboratory without using "strange matter" to do it. But I already answered that question, in the post right after the one you ignored.

Now if you mean the timing of the pulses, when you say frequency, then that too can be explained in any laboratory, we do it with strobe lights every day, which don't spin at the speed of dentists drill but use simple relaxation oscillators, you know, electromagnetic principles and electromagnetic waves. We do that too without "strange matter".

As a matter of fact it is easily reproduced in a plasma laboratory, and since 99.9% of the universe is plasma, I don't see why I would need "strange matter"? Unless of course I had preconceived ideas of lighthouses.....

 

[AV1611VET]

I still have unanswered questions for AV1611VET.

Fire away!

 

[Colter]

Kanned Ham and other creationists insist that the subject of deep time is not based on "observational science". This article describes how direct observations in the here and now show that the speed of light has not changed significantly over vast stretches of time and that the idea of a young earth and a young universe is false. SN1987A and the Age of the Universe
"When the smoke blown about finally drifts away and the debate hall falls silent, the young-earth creationists find themselves back on square one. He is looking at stars many millions of light-years away, stars putting out light which takes many millions of years to reach us! Attempts to speed up the velocity of light or to shrink down the universe have come to naught. What does remain is the old age of our universe."

The Jews wrote one of many speculative creation stories among many religions in the world wherein people would die for their belief in these erroneous conclusions. The chief medicine men, the shamans and eventually the priest class create routine stories for public consumption as a way of holding the faith of the people in the purpose of their religion. Some of these men are sincere others are a fraud and use religion for personal gain.

Judaism as a religion evolved out of the very real agreement between Melchizedek and Abraham. They barrowed liberally from many other beliefs along the way. Between Abraham and Jesus there is a great deal of speculation, conjecture and cultural bias......with a bit of deliberate exaggeration.

 

[driewerf]

Fire away!

I already asked them twice, in post nr 7 and nr 13.
But hey, since creation is your forte:

The Galactic center is at approximately 30.000 light years from the earth. Meaning that the light it emits needs to travel 30.000 years before reaching the earth. How do you explain that we can see the galactic center?
the Andromeda nebula is at 2.5 b
million light years from the earth. So the light needs to travel 2.5 million years? How do you explain that we can see the Andromeda nebula, if light travelled only 6020 years?

 

[AV1611VET]

I already asked them twice, in post nr 7 and nr 13.

And I answered it in Post 8 ... and you know I did.

 

[driewerf]

And I answered it in Post 8 ... and you know I did.

Nope you didn't. You made me imagine you holding the sun in your hand, moving it a light year away and creating the light in between.
Your "answer" does not satisfy because

• you don't have these powers
• I didn't ask anything about the sun.

I asked questions about real world stuff, and will not settle with answers about a phantasy world in which you are the big world mover.

So, there are still two unanswered questions.

 

[AV1611VET]

So, there are still two unanswered questions.

Fair enough.

They'll stay unanswered too, until you can learn to set your myopic science aside and humor people.

 

[driewerf]

Fair enough.

They'll stay unanswered too, until you can learn to set your myopic science aside and humor people.

So you fail at the very first question of what you label as "your forté"...

 

[AV1611VET]

So you fail at the very first question of what you label as "your forté"...

You betcha I did!

If that's what it took to fail me, I have three words to say: "Phew! Praise God!"

 

[Barry Desborough]

The frequency of light has nothing to do with the speed of light. The frequency of light can vary from one end of the spectrum to the other, yet light remains constant. But you didn't answer my post as to why light is constant?

So according to you since light is constant we would expect the frequency of light to remain constant, yet it varies from the ultraviolet to the infrared.......

But personally I would look to electromagnetic principles since we produce stable frequency pulses of light in the laboratory without using "strange matter" to do it. But I already answered that question, in the post right after the one you ignored.

Now if you mean the timing of the pulses, when you say frequency, then that too can be explained in any laboratory, we do it with strobe lights every day, which don't spin at the speed of dentists drill but use simple relaxation oscillators, you know, electromagnetic principles and electromagnetic waves. We do that too without "strange matter".

As a matter of fact it is easily reproduced in a plasma laboratory, and since 99.9% of the universe is plasma, I don't see why I would need "strange matter"? Unless of course I had preconceived ideas of lighthouses.....

Read the article linked to in the OP. I was referring to the pulse frequency. Pulsars rates are observed to decay very slowly, but we observe nothing like the change we should observe should the speed of light have varied considerably in the past. This makes us conclude that observations such as those of supernova SN1987A indicate events that are way older than Ussher's chronology.

 

[Justatruthseeker]

I already asked them twice, in post nr 7 and nr 13.
But hey, since creation is your forte:

The Galactic center is at approximately 30.000 light years from the earth. Meaning that the light it emits needs to travel 30.000 years before reaching the earth. How do you explain that we can see the galactic center?
the Andromeda nebula is at 2.5 b
million light years from the earth. So the light needs to travel 2.5 million years? How do you explain that we can see the Andromeda nebula, if light travelled only 6020 years?

Hey, you guys are the one that wants space to be expanding at an accelerating rate, yet light to magically cross this expanding space without taking any more time......

 

[Justatruthseeker]

Read the article linked to in the OP. I was referring to the pulse frequency. Pulsars rates are observed to decay very slowly, but we observe nothing like the change we should observe should the speed of light have varied considerably in the past. This makes us conclude that observations such as those of supernova SN1987A indicate events that are way older than Ussher's chronology.

Why would we assume the speed of light varied on the past? But again, we produce pulsar effects in any plasma laboratory, without the need for ad hoc matter.

And yet as I pointed out to another poster it is you all that wants space to be magically expanding at an increasing rate yet light takes no more time to cross the expanse even if space is being created as it travels?

I would suggest your flawed interpretation of what cosmological redshift is has led you to flawed conclusions of distance.... and we all understand those standard candles have been found to be not so standard after all.

But since magical nothing is expanding and light must traverse this extra distance as space is created, why don't you account for this increased distance light must travel? Or is it in reality their is no need to account for increased distance because expansion of space is non existent?

On the other hand if stars were originally created close by then they were moved to their present distances when God stretched out the heavens, we would still see their light with the expected redshift and no need to calculate for increasing space through which light must continue to travel....

I.e. If I move a light away from me at close to c I still continue to see the light forever, albeit with a redshift value..... so I see no problems at all with stars at their present distance, since I believe it is cosmology itself that uses a stretching balloon to explain the BB. Granted your time frame is confused due to your incorrect belief in what cosmological redshift and the CMB actually is, and your decay rates are confused because you don't apply time dilation corrections. But deflate that balloon and quit imagining it already inflated before you inflate it, and......

And if the universe were continuing to expand, then the CMB would also be exhibiting an increase in redshift, so would not remain constant, unless of course it too has been misinterpreted for what it really is...