DINOSAURS! Noah's Flood & other awesome questions.

Razare said:

I have heard 2 ideas...

- Pre-Adamic era creation, dinosaurs lived here
- Pre-Flood dinosaurs, except for a few instances where some survived

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And then there's the correct idea: non-avian dinosaurs died out because of a mass extinction at the end of the Cretaceous about 65 million years ago. The only living dinosaurs human beings have ever seen are birds.

-CryptoLutheran

Razare said:

I have heard 2 ideas...

- Pre-Adamic era creation, dinosaurs lived here
- Pre-Flood dinosaurs, except for a few instances where some survived

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There was no such thing as pre-Adamic era creation on this earth. The earth was created on the first day, sea and flying creatures were created on the fifth day, and land animals and man were created on the sixth day.

There is no such thing as pre-Flood (air breathing) dinosaurs surviving the Flood unless they were preserved on the ark (which, two of each kind were):

Genesis 7:21-23
21 And all flesh died that moved on the earth: birds and cattle and beasts and every creeping thing that creeps on the earth, and every man. 22 All in whose nostrils was the breath of the spirit of life, all that was on the dry land, died. 23 So He destroyed all living things which were on the face of the ground: both man and cattle, creeping thing and bird of the air. They were destroyed from the earth. Only Noah and those who were with him in the ark remained alive.

Man is creative in finding ways to reject God's Word.

ElxDalto said:

This has always fascinated me, dinosaurs that is. Many christians have told me satan put those (fossils) there to confuse us. I disagree, I believe satan is only at fault for the doubt of the timeline and of the divine existence of the Lord in general. I also believe the Dino's walked among us and must've been one awesome sight to see.

The global flood, many skeptics say to me "Where did the waters go?" and "Why did God kill all humanity except Noah's family?" and "That can't be what caused all the millions of years of erosion and what created the strata layers." I myself believe there is scientific evidence that supports the global flood, but the scientific community doesn't even consider this evidence at all. Why is that I ask, isn't this a big hypocritical mess? Why is the Theory of Evolution assumed as fact (when its just not, it may have supporting evidence, but that doesn't make it fact) and taught in our school system polluting our youth into thinking in one direction?

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It doesn't matter how much you believe there is evidence of a global flood, if there was, geology would have found it. There is no evidence for it. There's no conspiracy, the scientific community isn't ignoring it, it's just not there. On the other hand, the Theory of Evolution is one of the most evidenced and well-supported theories in science. It's not "polluting our youth", many Christians around the world accept the theory.

ViaCrucis said:

And then there's the correct idea: non-avian dinosaurs died out because of a mass extinction at the end of the Cretaceous about 65 million years ago. The only living dinosaurs human beings have ever seen are birds.

-CryptoLutheran

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Correct idea? So this is correct and God is a liar? Nope.

Luke17:37 said:

Correct idea? So this is correct and God is a liar? Nope.

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Either that, or your Bible doctrine is wrong--but I guess we can rule that out as being impossible, right?

TX_Matt said:

It doesn't matter how much you believe there is evidence of a global flood, if there was, geology would have found it. There is no evidence for it. There's no conspiracy, the scientific community isn't ignoring, it's just not there. On the other hand, the Theory of Evolution is one of the most evidenced and well-supported theories in science. It's not "polluting our youth", many Christians around the world accept the theory.

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Millions of years is polluting the youth alongside 70 year olds who consider themselves experts in Biblical theology and science, and everyone in between.

1 Corinthians 3:18-20
18 Let no one deceive himself. If anyone among you seems to be wise in this age, let him become a fool that he may become wise. 19 For the wisdom of this world is foolishness with God. For it is written, “He catches the wise in their own craftiness”; 20 and again, “The Lord knows the thoughts of the wise, that they are futile.”

Ask God to open your eyes if you can't see the evidence. Go visit the Ark in Kentucky.

Speedwell said:

Either that, or your Bible doctrine is wrong--but I guess we can rule that out as being impossible, right?

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See my post above. I wasn't talking about you, but you fit my example. I wrote it before I read your's. But I see it all the time. People live for a few years and they perhaps study science and they start to think they know more than God. What foolishness.

Exodus 20:11
11 For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it.

Isaiah 29:13-14
13 And the Lord said:
“Because this people draw near with their mouth
and honor me with their lips,
while their hearts are far from me,
and their fear of me is a commandment taught by men,
14 therefore, behold, I will again
do wonderful things with this people,
with wonder upon wonder;
and the wisdom of their wise men shall perish,
and the discernment of their discerning men shall be hidden.”

Luke17:37 said:

Go visit the Ark in Kentucky.

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Yeah, Answers in Genesis isn't a scientific organization so I don't consider them authority on scientific matters.

Potassium-argon dating puts the history of the earth millions of years earlier than the Biblical genealogies in Genesis. Plate tectonics has caused mountains to rise an inch per year (Himalayas) and S. Pacific islands to sink an inch per year. New crust is formed in areas of sea floor spreading, such as at the mid-Atlantic ridge in Iceland. Some plates sink under other plates, such as along the Pacific rim. The layers of the earth are in motion. The motion is slow. Overtime lithified marine strata were thrust upon other strata as mountains formed. Lithified sediments were folded, faulted and in some cases overturned. It did not happen in a day.

I also believe an omnipotent God who knows when a sparrow falls from the sky exists. For me intelligent design is such that God improved upon the animals that were created first, but this took hundreds of millions of years and was not done overnight. I do not believe the devil has creative power to make animals or fossils.

The Noah's Ark display in Kentucky is purely speculative. You do not find dinosaur fossils in the same strata as hominid fossils. Geologists use their knowledge to locate precious mineral deposits and define the history of creation as recorded in text books of paleontology. They cannot afford to guess. Knowledge of tiny marine fossils was used while prospecting for strata that might contain petroleum. Since science requires knowledge of the truth, some Christians may seek knowledge. Jesus said he was the truth. He got that from his father.

TX_Matt said:

many Christians around the world accept the theory.

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2 Timothy 4:3-4
3 For the time is coming when people will not endure sound teaching, but having itching ears they will accumulate for themselves teachers to suit their own passions, 4 and will turn away from listening to the truth and wander off into myths.

Luke17:37 said:

2 Timothy 4:3-4
3 For the time is coming when people will not endure sound teaching, but having itching ears they will accumulate for themselves teachers to suit their own passions, 4 and will turn away from listening to the truth and wander off into myths.

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Back atcha.

Luke17:37 said:

2 Timothy 4:3-4
3 For the time is coming when people will not endure sound teaching, but having itching ears they will accumulate for themselves teachers to suit their own passions, 4 and will turn away from listening to the truth and wander off into myths.

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Not taking Genesis literally has been around for as long as Christianity has been around.

TX_Matt said:

many MOST Christians around the world accept the theory.

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FTFY

Luke17:37 said:

Correct idea?

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Yes.

So this is correct and God is a liar? Nope.

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If you can show me God saying otherwise then you might have something, otherwise this is a false dichotomy.

If your only evidence is Genesis 1 and 2 then let me pre-emptively respond: I don't accept the creation stories in Genesis to be literal, historical accounts. Which isn't the same thing as not believing them, I believe Genesis 1 and 2, I just don't believe they were ever intended to be taken literally. And, yes, I am familiar with Jesus and St. Paul referring to Adam, and no I don't believe that referring to Adam means that I have to take the creation stories literally. And, yes, one can believe in a not literal Genesis 1 and 2 and still believe that Scripture is the divinely inspired and written word God.

But allow me to present this: Besides the overwhelming evidence for a very old universe, a very old earth, and the theory of evolution; and besides the highly convincing exegeses concerning Genesis 1 with which I am familiar; besides these the most important reason I'm not a young earth creationist is because I can't believe God is a liar and a deceiver. I could not know what I know about the natural universe and also believe what I believe about God at the same time and be a young earth creationist: because it would require that I believe that God actively deceives us.

What do I mean? Well, here's just one example;

Distant stars and galaxies. We can see them. If the universe were between 6,000 and 10,000 years old then the most distant objects we should be able to see would have to be between 6,000 and 10,000 light years away. But we can see much more distant objects than that, we can see galaxies which are billions of light years away. The only solution to that problem is to say that God purposely made the universe look older than it really is, it would mean that the galaxy we see which is a few million light years away didn't actually produce the light that we see. It means that the universe was created in a state of ancientness while being young; this is like producing a fully grown person in a lab and implanting a lifetime of memories which never actually happened. That's deceitful. To be a young earth creationist I would have to believe that God is deceitful and created a young universe imbedded with billions of years of cosmic memory, nebulae produced by exploding stars that never existed and never exploded, photons from distant galaxies that never originated there, the remains of dead stars that never lived. Every piece of evidence we have points to an old universe, and if God is, indeed, the God of all creation then either the universe is very old or it is very young and God is deceiving us by making it look very old. I can't believe the latter, I cannot believe that the God who makes Himself known in the history and narratives of Scripture and who makes Himself fully known in the Person of Jesus Christ, the very Word made flesh, is a God of anything other than truth.

So, on the contrary: I can't be a young earth creationist because I refuse to believe that God is a liar. Perhaps you are able to reconcile these things and still be a young earth creationist, I cannot. To do so would require that I discard Scripture, violate my conscience, and throw away my faith.

-CryptoLutheran

Luke17:37 said:

2 Timothy 4:3-4
3 For the time is coming when people will not endure sound teaching, but having itching ears they will accumulate for themselves teachers to suit their own passions, 4 and will turn away from listening to the truth and wander off into myths.

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Now turn it around.

How do you know that you aren't the one enduring sound teaching, but have itching ears and accumulating teachers to suit your own desires, and wandering off into myths? You quoted this passage because you are confident that you aren't the one who has fallen into error, and because with this you can justify the fact that Christians around the world and for a very long time haven't had any problem with evolution as being a result of "end times" delusions and false teachers. All the while I suspect you wouldn't even entertain the possibility that you might be the one in error.

Listen, this isn't my first rodeo. I know how the game is played, back when I was a Fundamentalist I played it quite well too.

-Cryptolutheran

Armoured said:

Back atcha.

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Much more succinct than my post.

-CryptoLutheran

ViaCrucis said:

Much more succinct than my post.

-CryptoLutheran

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Ha. I was about to say you said it better than me. Great minds

TX_Matt said:

Not taking Genesis literally has been around for as long as Christianity has been around.

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I highly doubt that.
That is, not like it is now, where many choose the near mandatory naturalistic ideas over Scripture.

Hieronymus said:

I highly doubt that.
That is, not like it is now, where many choose the near mandatory naturalistic ideas over Scripture.

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Since at least Augustine, who was pretty early, depending on where you draw the line between Christianity and Judaism.

Luke17:37 said:

2 Timothy 4:3-4
3 For the time is coming when people will not endure sound teaching, but having itching ears they will accumulate for themselves teachers to suit their own passions, 4 and will turn away from listening to the truth and wander off into myths.

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Romans 1:20-23
20 For his invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse.
21 For although they knew God, they did not honor him as God or give thanks to him, but they became futile in their thinking, and their foolish hearts were darkened.
22 Claiming to be wise, they became fools,
23 and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images resembling mortal man and birds and animals and creeping things.