Dinosaurs?! Leviathan

[Gwenyfur]

Leviathan is a name of a demon, not a literal physical sea creature. Leviathans main demonic influence is with spititual pride and stopping deliverance.
Leviathan stops spiritual growth in people. They cannot pray, read their bible, they go to sleep during services. This may explain why some pleople have a strange tendency of falling a asleep in church during service. Even after a good night sleep!
Leviathan also works closely with "THE QUEEN OF HEAVEN," named Jezebel.
Here are a few words and meanings Levianthan stands for and controls.
Pride, King of the children of pride, false gifts, spiritual pride, darkness, arrogance, using logic, ego, rationlization to know thing of God, blocks the mind, hinders spiritual growth, distraction, deception, and jealousy.

Well....everyone's got an opinion...

 

[BlueJ]

That's not a personal opinion about Levinthan,thats a fact. Everyone should know about this. Thanks to years of biblical resarch, by paster Win Worley and others like him we can all have access to the truth.

 

[Mallon]

That's not a personal opinion about Levinthan [sic],thats [sic] a fact.

Actually, it's an interpretation.

Everyone should know about this. Thanks to years of biblical resarch [sic], by paster [sic] Win Worley and others like him we can all have access to the truth.

So now pastor Win Worley determines what is and what isn't truth?

 

[Paladin Dave]

Jezebel was King Ahab's wife. The Queen of Heaven mentioned in Eastern Mythology was Ashera, and she had no connection to any Leviathan.

 

[BlueJ]

Actually, it's an interpretation.

So now pastor Win Worley determines what is and what isn't truth?

Ahh..... dont you learn things from your church or your pastor.
Well...Im not surprised, many teachers or pastors feel uncomfortable preaching about such things. Maybe because they are uneducated about the subject of spiritual war. That does not dismiss the fact that spiritual warfare and names of demons are being taught worldwide. Many, many christian researchers have dicovered that levianthan is not a physical creature.
This is nothing new.

 

[Paladin Dave]

Sorry J, but whoever told you that Jezebel was the Queen of Heaven is already wrong in that aspect. If he got that wrong, how can we be sure he even knows what he is talking about concerning Leviathan? And just how does he conduct his research, may I ask? I tried to read up on him, but most of what I found was on very strange sites that seemed borderline cultish. Like one that thought karate was a tool of the devil. I am eager to know. How did he obtain his information on the hierarchies of demonic power? Or learn the names of these things? Or who they commanded, or what they brought? If he heard it from the demons, he needs to remember that they are servants of the Father of LIES.

 

[Gwenyfur]

Ahh..... dont you learn things from your church or your pastor.
Well...Im not surprised, many teachers or pastors feel uncomfortable preaching about such things. Maybe because they are uneducated about the subject of spiritual war. That does not dismiss the fact that spiritual warfare and names of demons are being taught worldwide. Many, many christian researchers have dicovered that levianthan is not a physical creature.
This is nothing new.

A demon will never give out his true name...to do so is to give control of themselves to a human...something they don't do...beware of the falseness that present day demonology and spiritual warfare "experts" are teaching.....

and before you start rattling off at me....read my testimony...it's in my profile

No one knows like one who's been there done that

 

[Mallon]

Ahh..... dont you learn things from your church or your pastor.

Certainly. But I don't take everything he says as fact.

 

[BlueJ]

Sorry J, but whoever told you that Jezebel was the Queen of Heaven is already wrong in that aspect. If he got that wrong, how can we be sure he even knows what he is talking about concerning Leviathan? And just how does he conduct his research, may I ask? I tried to read up on him, but most of what I found was on very strange sites that seemed borderline cultish. Like one that thought karate was a tool of the devil. I am eager to know. How did he obtain his information on the hierarchies of demonic power? Or learn the names of these things? Or who they commanded, or what they brought? If he heard it from the demons, he needs to remember that they are servants of the Father of LIES.

How did he obtain his information on the hierachies of demaonic power? Read Matthew 8:28.
Eveyrone has the authority as a true believer to question the devil in the name of Jesus. Jesus gave us an example in Matthew. Do you think that demon lied to Jesus? Nooo. Well according to the word of God "greater works shall ye do than these". In the name of Jesus we are to cast out evil spirits. The word of God says not to be ignorant of Satans devises.
Look, should the worldly know more than the people of God? And does not the wicked flock togerther like herds of sheep? So does Leviathan work together with Jezebel as legions (meaning many) were working together in that man . Ephesians 6:12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against the principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

 

[Paladin Dave]

Ok, but you still have not answered my question as to who Jezebel, if not the queen alongside Ahab. The "queen of heaven" mentioned in the Bible is Ashera, not Jezebel. Unless heathen gods and demons have a way of overpowering eachother(which Jesus said does NOT happen when the pharisees accused him of using demonic power to exorcise demons), then Worley is wrong about one demon. He can be wrong about the rest. Remember that he got no name from the demon. Simply "We are LEGION!" All that proves is that a man can be set upon by more than one demon. Not that we can obtain their names, nor that they would not lie to us about their names just because they did not lie about their NUMBERS to the being who put down their rebellion and cast them from heaven. Matthew does not in any way prove Leviathan or Jezebel's existence as demonic entities. If anything, it shows a flaw in pastor Worley's methods.

 

[BlueJ]

I only meant to say that evil spirits work together and it is important for us to know and research them..
As for Jezebel you may be correct, I'll have to do more research on her. Let me know if you learn anything new on her. I just did'nt obtain this information from Worley.

 

[Paladin Dave]

I heard the term "Jezebelian" on an obscure site that followed his teachings. If he was not simply comparing them to the evil Queen Jezebel, then he was wrong in speaking of a demon named Jezebel, who held the title Queen of Heaven.

The Queen of Heaven is mentioned in books such as Jeremiah, because she, Ashera, was one of the heathen deities that the Hebrews turned to. Her worship places were usually groves of trees, with staves carved intricately as the main centerpiece and relic of the grove, according to the Middle Eastern Mythology course I took. The Professor, although teaching a secular course, cited the Old Testament as the main source of recorded information of her.

Thats all good and well. I know that they work together. Most people who know about the story of Jesus banishing the Legion do. But as for researching them, this is unnecessary, IMHO. Don't get me wrong. I am a very tactically minded person. I know how important it is to know your enemy. But the demons are far more tactically minded than I, and arguably, any other human being. They can decieve us into thinking that we are forcing them to tell us the truth. Really, I am not saying that they don't. But would you trust information from a spirit that wants you to burn in hell with it? Is it not possible that it can feign defeat to lull you into a sense of overconfidence and superiority? Yes they can be banished from us. But nowhere in the Bible does it say we get to play interrogator. Cast them out, by all means. But researching them... that, in my opinion, is just begging to be mislead and decieved.

You know what I see as a source of abominable pride? Just playing... heh... devil's advocate... figuratively. But what if Worley suffered from extreme pride? That is what it strikes me as when a sinful human being blames everything on demonic influence. Sure, demons can play off of our weaknesses. I don't deny that. But the nature is there in our hearts in the first place. Otherwise, they would have nothing to use against us. I do not deny that the devil has a frightening amount of power. But do not give him credit for being the cause of everything we do wrong. I am not saying you do, just for the record. I just know that ministers like Worley tend to teach and practice demon exorcisms in a manner that suggests that mindset.

 

[handmaiden97]

I strongly beleive the book of Job is describing a dinosaur. and no dinousaurs have not been extinct 65 million years, there is evidence of dinosaurs and man living together. (Read Dinousaurss by Design by Duane T. Gish Phd)

second of all, I dont know it dragons were ever real or not, but I do know that the legend of dragons has to stem from somewhere, and I suppose the legen came out of dragons....did you know when Marco polo fist visited China he recorded in his journal that the emporor wagons were pulled by dragons.....hmm do you ever wonder what sort of creature he saw that believed to be a dragon.

 

[imind]

I strongly beleive the book of Job is describing a dinosaur. and no dinousaurs have not been extinct 65 million years, there is evidence of dinosaurs and man living together. (Read Dinousaurss by Design by Duane T. Gish Phd)

there is no evidence to suggest that animals lived with man, and the evidence does suggest that they died out 65 million years ago.

gish has proven himself untrustworthy time and time again...

man and bullfrog

Wadjak Man

creationist exposed


lying, even 'for christ', is wrong.

 

[mark kennedy]

Now, now, johnlf, being a Bible-worshipper and being a Christian doesn't mean the same (except in the mind of a Bible-worshipper ).

So do you think that he has a Bible set up in some shrine where he is falling prostrate before it, or is this just a clutch phrase. I take a lot of things literally in Scripture, Job being a real person, the parting of the Red Sea, the miracles of Elijah and Elisha, the miracles of Christ and the Apostles, the ressurection of Christ, the Ascension and soon return of Christ. Does that make someone a Bible worshiper because I do worship the Word incarnate.

Honestly, I think you are just using a clutch phrase.

Ooh, there's the story about the dragon, but which is the other one?

It's a obviously a meta4, no real question about that. It's used in Is. 27:1 to describe the armies of the Pharoah who harded his heart against the word of God. Job discusses the curse of those who 'rouse the Leviathan' (Job 3:8) basically God is using Job's meta4 and expanding on it. This is not a 'story' of a dragon, that is just plain silly.

Anyway, as for the OP: Leviathan is a mythological monster, the monster of the sea (read Isaiah 27:1). It was thought that although God had tied Leviathan at the bottom of the sea, he could still stamp his tail against the sea-floor causing floods.

I don't know where you get that trivial allusion to folklore but that is not the Scriptural use of the term Leviathan. It is a referance to the power of kings to send forth armies. That is exactly what the referance is alluding to and this is evident and obvious when looking at the context it is used it. Don't confuse the shadow with the substance, the Leviathan is an allusion to something other then a literal dinosaure or mythical dragon.

So we should not look for any particular animal, it's simply a mythological beast, though the decsription in Job may be based on the crocodile and some other stuff. The creation story in Job is poetic and should not be read as something literal.


- FreezBee

What on earth could you be talking about? There is no creation story in Job. There are a series of questions that Job was asked about creation that he could not answer. When discerning between the literal and figurative it helps to identify the specific passages you are refering to.

Job was wronged by something he could not understand and wondered why God let this happen. His friends convinced him that it was punishment from God. Job argued that he did nothing wrong and in his misery and pain said that God had wronged him. What Job did not realize was that he was in trouble because God had been braging on him. After castigating Job for several chapters leaving Job utterly contrite, God looks at Jobs friends and says:

"My wrath is aroused against you and your two friends, for you have not spoken of Me what is right, as 'My serveant Job has" (Job 42:7)

Job was a very real person and this book loses all meaning if it is just an elaborate fictional account. I suppose in the minds of some that makes me a Bible worshipper. Personally, I find that an unfair and untrue characterization, I think it is fair to say there are allegories as well as actual history in Scripture. You may not agree with certain inferances but that does not warrant calling it Bible worship.

 

[TruthMiner]

In Job chapters 41+42, God is telling Job off, and giving him examples of things in nature that Job does not understand but God does. In the middle of putting Job in his place, God talks about leviathan, a huge creature that sounds like a dinosaur or a dragon. some will say that this is an imaginary creature, but think about this: If God is using real examples from nature to discuss how Job does not have God's understanding, why would he all fo a sudden go off into fairy land and start talking about things that don't exist? Think about it, and post your thoughts. Job 41 is printed below.



Job 41


1Canst thou draw out leviathan with an hook? or his tongue with a cord which thou lettest down?
2Canst thou put an hook into his nose? or bore his jaw through with a thorn?
3Will he make many supplications unto thee? will he speak soft words unto thee?
4Will he make a covenant with thee? wilt thou take him for a servant for ever?
5Wilt thou play with him as with a bird? or wilt thou bind him for thy maidens?
6Shall the companions make a banquet of him? shall they part him among the merchants?
7Canst thou fill his skin with barbed irons? or his head with fish spears?
8Lay thine hand upon him, remember the battle, do no more.
9Behold, the hope of him is in vain: shall not one be cast down even at the sight of him?
10None is so fierce that dare stir him up: who then is able to stand before me?
11Who hath prevented me, that I should repay him? whatsoever is under the whole heaven is mine.
12I will not conceal his parts, nor his power, nor his comely proportion.
13Who can discover the face of his garment? or who can come to him with his double bridle?
14Who can open the doors of his face? his teeth are terrible round about.
15His scales are his pride, shut up together as with a close seal.
16One is so near to another, that no air can come between them.
17They are joined one to another, they stick together, that they cannot be sundered.
18By his neesings a light doth shine, and his eyes are like the eyelids of the morning.
19Out of his mouth go burning lamps, and sparks of fire leap out.
20Out of his nostrils goeth smoke, as out of a seething pot or caldron.
21His breath kindleth coals, and a flame goeth out of his mouth.
22In his neck remaineth strength, and sorrow is turned into joy before him.
23The flakes of his flesh are joined together: they are firm in themselves; they cannot be moved.
24His heart is as firm as a stone; yea, as hard as a piece of the nether millstone.
25When he raiseth up himself, the mighty are afraid: by reason of breakings they purify themselves.
26The sword of him that layeth at him cannot hold: the spear, the dart, nor the habergeon.
27He esteemeth iron as straw, and brass as rotten wood.
28The arrow cannot make him flee: slingstones are turned with him into stubble.
29Darts are counted as stubble: he laugheth at the shaking of a spear.
30Sharp stones are under him: he spreadeth sharp pointed things upon the mire.
31He maketh the deep to boil like a pot: he maketh the sea like a pot of ointment.
32He maketh a path to shine after him; one would think the deep to be hoary.
33Upon earth there is not his like, who is made without fear. 34He beholdeth all high things: he is a king over all the children of pride.

Leviathan is the Jewish name for the constellation Draco.

http://homepage.mac.com/kvmagruder/bcp/precession/northstar.htm

 

[stone]

it's a dragon

 

[humbledbyhim]

So do you think that he has a Bible set up in some shrine where he is falling prostrate before it, or is this just a clutch phrase. I take a lot of things literally in Scripture, Job being a real person, the parting of the Red Sea, the miracles of Elijah and Elisha, the miracles of Christ and the Apostles, the ressurection of Christ, the Ascension and soon return of Christ. Does that make someone a Bible worshiper because I do worship the Word incarnate.

Honestly, I think you are just using a clutch phrase.

"My wrath is aroused against you and your two friends, for you have not spoken of Me what is right, as 'My serveant Job has" (Job 42:7)

Job was a very real person and this book loses all meaning if it is just an elaborate fictional account. I suppose in the minds of some that makes me a Bible worshipper. Personally, I find that an unfair and untrue characterization, I think it is fair to say there are allegories as well as actual history in Scripture. You may not agree with certain inferances but that does not warrant calling it Bible worship.

 

[justified]

Umm....why is everyone yelling at each other like anyone knows what they're talking about. The facts:

1. We know of no animal as described in these chapters.
2. It's a poetic chapter.
3. There is a lot of argument about whether it's possible for an animal to breathe fire.
4. Ugaritic literature mentions Leviathan A LOT.