- Dec 16, 2002
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Here is the link to the article in question.
) examined bird embryos and discovered that it appears as if the bird fingers expressed in adults are the digits II, III, and IV whereas the fossil record clearly shows that dinosaurs lost their digits V and IV, thus dinosaurs could not be the ancestors of birds.
Sounds like good, solid evidence falsifying a dino-bird link huh? Except it isn't as pretty as they make it sound. Firstly, birds only develop 4 fingers even in embryological stages; there is no fifth finger to use as a comparison. Without a fifth finger to use as a comparison, any attempts to number the fingers faces extreme obsticles. For example, one of the main criteria which the embryologists use to call digit "IV" in the embryos digit IV is because it is opposite the ulna. And yet, to quote Gregory Paul (from here):
"in adult avetheropods the digit opposite the ulna IS number III. Why the avetheropod-bird clade would initially emphasize the development of III rather than IV is obvious. Loss of digit I in even the embryos would leave a big gap between the pisiform in the side of the wrist and metacarpal IV, unless the other digits shifted laterally. So IV would be were V was, and III would be were IV was. If the shift is not made from the get go, it is only going to have to occur at some point later. Also, IV will be entirely lost. To follow the usual tetrapod finger growth pattern would require IV to grow large in embryos, then be completely lost later on (Burke & Feduccia say that some lizards sharply reduce the size of IV, but it is not completely lost. Does anyone know what happens to digit IV in horse embryos?) This would be a waste of growth energy, and natural selection does not work to make finger buds convenient for embryologists to count, but to maximize efficiency of growth. The severe asymmetry of finger growth in theropods-birds should have forced them to reconfigure the growth pattern, so that III is initially emphasized rather than IV, and the latter is never more than a stub before it is eliminated.
The problem is that some embryologists expect digit IV to be large because it is so in animals with symmetrical finger reduction, and some want it to be IV, so they say it is, even though strong asymmetric finger growth could be expected to result in important changes in embryonic growth. As it is, there is no conclusive evidence that birds retain digits II-IV rather than I-III, there is no way to compare avian and dinosaur hand embryology, and so the problem is untestable."
This attempt to falsify the dino-bird link is extremely weak and it plays mostly on unsupported and downright silly assumptions in order to number bird digits II-IV.
The next claim:
To see a thorough refutation (which is too long for me to post here) go to this website. You may notice that one of the authors of the paper that AiG cites makes an attempt to answer the objections; he fails
This website cites why these feathers could not have been collagen fibers (it also discusses the bellows-lung claim if you want to read more on it
)
No one claims that the feathered dinosaurs we have discovered evolved into birds; they are too young. The claim is that feathered dinosaurs like the ones we have discovered evolved into birds. An important distinction.AiG said:Readers may remember the recent media fanfare about the so-called feathered dinosaurs (including Sinosauropteryx) supposedly proving that dinosaurs evolved into birds.
It would be cool if they provided examples that I could address but no use crying over spilt milk.We cautioned that many media proofs of evolution are later refuted with barely a whimper in the media.
They did a poor job explaining this "falsification". Basically, Feduccia and his ornithologist cohorts (can you tell my opinions on them?New research shows that birds lack the embryonic thumb that dinosaurs had, suggesting that it is almost impossible for the species to be closely related.1 A team led by bird expert Alan Feduccia, chairman of biology at the University of North Carolina, studied bird embryos under a microscope, and published their study in the journal Science.2
Sounds like good, solid evidence falsifying a dino-bird link huh? Except it isn't as pretty as they make it sound. Firstly, birds only develop 4 fingers even in embryological stages; there is no fifth finger to use as a comparison. Without a fifth finger to use as a comparison, any attempts to number the fingers faces extreme obsticles. For example, one of the main criteria which the embryologists use to call digit "IV" in the embryos digit IV is because it is opposite the ulna. And yet, to quote Gregory Paul (from here):
"in adult avetheropods the digit opposite the ulna IS number III. Why the avetheropod-bird clade would initially emphasize the development of III rather than IV is obvious. Loss of digit I in even the embryos would leave a big gap between the pisiform in the side of the wrist and metacarpal IV, unless the other digits shifted laterally. So IV would be were V was, and III would be were IV was. If the shift is not made from the get go, it is only going to have to occur at some point later. Also, IV will be entirely lost. To follow the usual tetrapod finger growth pattern would require IV to grow large in embryos, then be completely lost later on (Burke & Feduccia say that some lizards sharply reduce the size of IV, but it is not completely lost. Does anyone know what happens to digit IV in horse embryos?) This would be a waste of growth energy, and natural selection does not work to make finger buds convenient for embryologists to count, but to maximize efficiency of growth. The severe asymmetry of finger growth in theropods-birds should have forced them to reconfigure the growth pattern, so that III is initially emphasized rather than IV, and the latter is never more than a stub before it is eliminated.
The problem is that some embryologists expect digit IV to be large because it is so in animals with symmetrical finger reduction, and some want it to be IV, so they say it is, even though strong asymmetric finger growth could be expected to result in important changes in embryonic growth. As it is, there is no conclusive evidence that birds retain digits II-IV rather than I-III, there is no way to compare avian and dinosaur hand embryology, and so the problem is untestable."
This attempt to falsify the dino-bird link is extremely weak and it plays mostly on unsupported and downright silly assumptions in order to number bird digits II-IV.
The next claim:
is also incorrect.A team led by John Ruben, a respiratory physiology expert at Oregon State University in Corvallis, analysed fossil outlines of Sinosauropteryxs internal organs. Its bellowslike lungs could not have evolved into the high-performance lungs of modern birds.3 Indeed, birds have a complicated system of air sacs which keep air flowing in one direction through special tubes (parabronchi) in the lung, and blood moves through the lungs blood vessels in the opposite direction for efficient oxygen uptake,4 an excellent engineering design.5 Interestingly, some defenders of dinosaur-to-bird evolution, discount this evidence against their theory by saying the proponents of this argument offer no animal whose lungs could have given rise to those in birds, which are extremely complex and are unlike the lungs of any living animal.6 Of course, only evolutionary faith requires that bird lungs arose from lungs of another animal.
To see a thorough refutation (which is too long for me to post here) go to this website. You may notice that one of the authors of the paper that AiG cites makes an attempt to answer the objections; he fails
I love this claim. You know why? Because it was refuted so long ago! Not even the paleontologists they cite believe it anymore. The feathers found on Sinosauropteryx are completely unlike collagen fibers and at least Brush admits that they are very similar to feathers; although he disagrees that they are homologous to them.Also, Ruben and ancient bird expert Larry Martin believe that the so-called feather traces are actually frayed collagen fibres beneath the skin. Feather expert Alan Brush, University of Connecticut, Storrs, points out that they lack the organization found in modern feathers.7
This website cites why these feathers could not have been collagen fibers (it also discusses the bellows-lung claim if you want to read more on it
)