Dilemma

[Sketcher]

I have the opportunity to move out of my house with a couple of Christian fellas I have gone to church with in the last year. We are looking at cheap houses to rent. Talked with my dad and he's cool with it. But the problem comes in when we'll need to co-sign the lease. It's this what Proverbs calls "putting up security for your neighbor", something that we are to avoid like the plague? This hit me last night and I felt smacked in the face and deflated. Nothing is wrong with Christian guys living together. Especially if we want to use the house for ministry purposes to an extent. But if it requires an unbiblical action, what options do I have? Is there a way we can do this without running afoul of Proverbs 6:1-5, 11:15, 17:18, and 22:26-27?

 

[rockwell]

About the Proverbs that you mentioned, it refers to other kinds of things that dont quite apply to your situation I think, it's more like putting your security on your neighbours instead of the Lord, meaning trusting the world to supply your needs, eg. PowerBall, Gambling etc.

If you are not gonna be living with girls that's fine - temptation is just too big when that happens.

SUGGESTION = Pray that the Lord will guide you and seek His will, pray the the place and your mates will the the ones God wants you to live with. Pray, pray and pray.

 

[EmSchmem]

I have the opportunity to move out of my house with a couple of Christian fellas I have gone to church with in the last year. We are looking at cheap houses to rent. Talked with my dad and he's cool with it. But the problem comes in when we'll need to co-sign the lease. It's this what Proverbs calls "putting up security for your neighbor", something that we are to avoid like the plague? This hit me last night and I felt smacked in the face and deflated. Nothing is wrong with Christian guys living together. Especially if we want to use the house for ministry purposes to an extent. But if it requires an unbiblical action, what options do I have? Is there a way we can do this without running afoul of Proverbs 6:1-5, 11:15, 17:18, and 22:26-27?

If these are other Chrisitan guys that you trust I see no problem with it. Our church has about 30 houses like that actually. They're not governed or anything by the church (the only way the church actually is involved at all is that they set aside a small fund for helping the people who live there out for emergency situations) but are all members of the college group in our church. They work really well and they all help each other out and it's impossible to keep track of the hundreds of people who have accepted Christ through these houses since the 70s.

 

[bliz]

Do you mean that all of you will be asked to sign the lease - meaning that any one of you can be held liuble for the whole rent?

Or, do you mean that someone will be asked to sign and guarantee payment if you guys default?

The latter is what is usually referred to as "co-signing", and that is when Proverbs said we should not do. For example, if you needed your Dad to co-sign a car loan for you - he's pledging to pay your car loan if you split town. If you need a co-signer for the car, it is becasue you are not making sufficent money to get that particular car, which means that you probably shoud not be buying that car, or any car at that time. Co-signing really means that you are willing to take on a debt for someone else that is not wisely being taken on in the first place.

With the apartment, you are all signing so that the landlord has multiple people to come after. The apartment is not beyond your collective abillities to pay and you are not asking someone who is outside of the project to cover your butts if you mess up.

I really admre your careful consideration of this. From my understanding of the situation, and scripture, and loans, it is right an appropriate that you all sign the lease and this is not what is meant by "co-signing".

Have a great adventure in the Lord!

 

[bliz]

Oh! I just realized who your little meatball dude is! (My kids made me watch it!)
You are twisted!!! lol

 

[Sketcher]

Do you mean that all of you will be asked to sign the lease - meaning that any one of you can be held liuble for the whole rent?

Or, do you mean that someone will be asked to sign and guarantee payment if you guys default?

Thanks, but how are these different?

If one of us were to lose his job, (or not get one, in one person's case) the place would be beyond our means to pay. I have some money saved up for an emergency, but I don't bring in enough per month to pay half the rent as opposed to one third consistantly. Two of us have jobs, the third is looking. Niether I nor the other one who is employed are keen on the third moving in if he does not have work. So yeah, I'm praying for him to find work. I can keep living at home until then, the other one has a bit more of a time crunch.

Never done this before, I appreciate everybody's input. And for anybody who hasn't gleaned this already, we are all guys.

Oh! I just realized who your little meatball dude is! (My kids made me watch it!)
You are twisted!!! lol

Thanks! It is the greatest cartoon on Earth. Someday, maybe I will break into the industry and make something even better .

 

[Rafael]

A security deposit is part of the deal with the world, but the scriptures in Proverbs are wisdom to us. I would wait till this other person had a job before moving out. Putting up his end of the security would be a mistake, especially being so young. Many young people struggle with the responsibility of working and paying bills, so you have to really know the character of the people you move in with - that they will not just lay around and bum food, rent, and utilities off you while saying they tried and prayed but just can't find work. I'd wait till the doors are open and the security money is raised by all parties and jobs are found and secured. If you don't, expect that troubles may arise and friendships stressed.
That's my advice - pay attention, as you have, to the Bible.

Oh, and meatwad and the rest of the aquateen hunger force are funny, but kinda perverted - aren't they? Would you say that their creators are Christian? Don't move in with a guy like Karl or Master Shake.

 

[macspetra]

For example, if you needed your Dad to co-sign a car loan for you - he's pledging to pay your car loan if you split town. If you need a co-signer for the car, it is becasue you are not making sufficent money to get that particular car, which means that you probably shoud not be buying that car, or any car at that time. Co-signing really means that you are willing to take on a debt for someone else that is not wisely being taken on in the first place.

This is a good point. I bought a house that my dad cosigned. Not even thinking that there would be a biblical problem with it. I now sold the house and my dad took some of the money. I had to let him or he wouldn't sign the paper to sell it. It is a really good thing to be on the watch with things like this. It also really shows how much you look to God for guidance.

 

[desi]

You are right to consider this, wise as well to know Proverbs as you do. When you speak to the landlord and tell them of your ministry God will take care of the rest.

 

[Sketcher]

A security deposit is part of the deal with the world, but the scriptures in Proverbs are wisdom to us. I would wait till this other person had a job before moving out. Putting up his end of the security would be a mistake, especially being so young. Many young people struggle with the responsibility of working and paying bills, so you have to really know the character of the people you move in with - that they will not just lay around and bum food, rent, and utilities off you while saying they tried and prayed but just can't find work. I'd wait till the doors are open and the security money is raised by all parties and jobs are found and secured. If you don't, expect that troubles may arise and friendships stressed.
That's my advice - pay attention, as you have, to the Bible.

The other guy has a job now, so all 3 of us are employed. I wouldn't pay his third of the security deposit, if that is what you are getting at. Unfortunately, we got turned down for one house - we're still looking for a place.

Oh, and meatwad and the rest of the aquateen hunger force are funny, but kinda perverted - aren't they? Would you say that their creators are Christian? Don't move in with a guy like Karl or Master Shake.

First, it's Carl. Second, I don't believe their creators are Christian. Third, the "perversion" depends on the episode, really. Fourth, "perverted" is a relative term (and I believe in absolutes!) - I mean, I have created stuff that is nonsexual and I wouldn't even call it creepy, but other people have called it perverted and wierd and scary. So it depends on the stomach of the viewer.

Move in with Shake? I'd almost rather move in with the Plutonians. But not the Moononites .

 

[TheMainException]

Check and see if your friend has bad credit or can't pay up on stuff. If your friend has a steady job and you all have good credit...go for it...in the versions I have read, it involves strangers and debt. Do your friends have debt they can't pay? Are they strangers? If not, go for it.

 

[Sketcher]

They are not strangers. One has debt which he is working on. The other, I don't know what his debt situation is. I have no debt, but I also have no credit.