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LindaBerlin

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Although I am unqualified to provide any comfort or counsel to what you have suffered, your life & that of your sister are sacred.

I believe there are Christian counselors who could help you in regards to healing and salvation.

Lukaris, if you had read the previous text carefully, you would know that Regine and I often thought of suicide, or wished that our mother could have aborted us. But there is a difference between thoughts and desires on the one hand, and the action on the other. The hell we both went through taught us things. I became a Christian with "fire in my belly", as my ex-husband once called it. I fight against injustices and hatred of women where I see it.
My sister has developed differently. She became a born again Christian in Oklahoma shortly after her marriage to Mr. Eddie Johnson, and fled into her religion. She has rejected all except of two of her children. Her daughter because she is bisexual, her eldest son, because of used drugs (why, she never asked).
She also cast her middle son because he was the son of boyfriend number three, and he had a hare's swarm and stuttered.
Only her youngest two sons, one of them married the wife of a pastor, were her favorites. The second younger son, Christian, was jailed for beating a gay man to death with a friend. That Christian fought against his own homosexuality at that time, and had only slain the man in order to get the love of his mother, did not want and could not see her.
By the way, Christian secretly lived gay in Oklahoma, and became a teacher at a middle school. Because of his mother's opposition to homosexuals, and his church's congregation to LGBTIQ people, he took his own life six years ago. His mother still does not know (at least officially) that he was gay.
That is why the issues of abortion and homosexuality are so important to me, because I myself and my family have been and are affected by it.
 
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Can you not rise above your mother's failure? This is your life. Only you are responsible for your actions.
 
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LindaBerlin

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Can you not rise above your mother's failure? This is your life. Only you are responsible for your actions.

No man has the right to tell me anything. It's my life, it's my experiences, and it's my conclusions, based on both.
And, BTW, my mother did nothing wrong. It was man's law that forbids her everything.
 
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No man has the right to tell me anything. It's my life, it's my experiences, and it's my conclusions, based on both.

If you are pregnant and you have a right to kill your child why wouldn't your mother have the same right to take your life right now?
 
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LindaBerlin

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If you are pregnant and you have a right to kill your child why wouldn't your mother have the same right to take your life right now?

Use your brain, bro! Apart from the fact that my mother has have had passed away in 1983, murder is only judged in cases where someone has died. A clump of cells in the womb is not considered a life, either legally or medically. Only someone who has been BORN can be killed. That is what court rulings in Germany, Europe and the USA says. Even if Christian fundamentalists are currently trying, thanks to the majority in SCOTUS, to erase the right to abortion. They want to turn the United States into a Christian state of God, just like Islamists in Afghanistan and Pakistan.
 
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You believe it's a clump of cells. If someone else believes you have no value what's the difference? Both are individual beliefs.
 
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LindaBerlin

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The pastor we are talking about has been fined by a Bremen court for incitement to the people. After this verdict, the Bremen State Church will decide whether he can no longer preach (get an office job), or completely loses his office as pastor.
In my opinion, it is too lenient a verdict, because even after the indictment, he continued to rail against homosexuals, women and Muslims.
This pastor uses the Bible as a weapon against all the people he loathes. And the worst thing is that his church community follows him in it without contradiction.
 
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LindaBerlin

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You believe it's a clump of cells. If someone else believes you have no value what's the difference? Both are individual beliefs.

It is a scientific fact that it is first of all a cell clump that develops over the course of the months into a childbearing being. The sex, for example, only arises many months after procreation.
Life begins with procreation is a faith that is followed above all by Orthodox Jews, Christians and Muslims. Scientifically justified by nothing.
So what you believe is faith without evidence, what I believe is based on facts.
 
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Are you here to learn about Christianity?
 
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LindaBerlin

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Are you here to learn about Christianity?

Good question! As I have said many times, I see myself as a Christian because I believe in God and Jesus. But I do not believe in the interpretations of the Bible that are not based on facts. And above all, I do not believe some Christian churches that use their interpretation of the Bible as facts, but which in reality are nothing more than half-knowledge and prejudices.
If you think I'm not welcome to this forum, you're free to suspend or delete my account (or let the admins do it).
 
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LindaBerlin

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There is more than one way to be a Christian, I have had to learn that. And there are different Bible translations and interpretations of the bible. I was hoping to find here the Christian faith to which I could join.
But what I found was ignorance of the Bible, re-chatting of what others say, and above all prejudice.
I am a proud Christian bisexual woman who had love relationships with both men and women. And I fight for my right to be perceived as a bisexual Christian. Jesus would not have condemned me, so why do some Christians do it here?
 
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I would assume you are as welcome here as I am. I was curious because of your views.
 
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Lukaris

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It is amazing to hear someone say that the Bible says nothing about abortion when pro life Christians cite scriptures like Jeremiah 1:5, Psalms 22:10-11, Galatians 1:15 etc. as evidence of perpetual Christian faith. I earlier cited a late 1st c. Church manual that cited abortion as a type of murder according to the commandments.

You earlier cited a case of some Mormon guy supposedly only received a 10 year manslaughter case for a murder he committed at a Utah hospital. I cited what must have been the case & he was sentenced to 35 years & committed suicide in prison (of no consequence to legal justice but just for the record). I tried to research what became of his unfortunate wife & children but could not find anything but claim they ended up homeless & almost left to die. There is a social welfare system in America so I question this alleged conclusion.

Now I hear the familiar party line about the conspiracy theory that originated from a third rate novel (The Handmaid’s Tale)( taken as evidence by some )that groups are trying to create a Christian theocracy in America.

There are plenty of churches which have cut loose the 10 commandments & will welcome those who reject these commandments also & condemn those who still believe that the commandments to love God & neighbor are supported by the 10 commandments.
 
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LindaBerlin

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It is amazing to hear someone say that the Bible says nothing about abortion when pro life Christians cite scriptures like Jeremiah 1:5, Psalms 22:10-11, Galatians 1:15 etc. as evidence of perpetual Christian faith.

Oh heaven, all these scriptures you quote say NO WORD TO ABORTION. They speak of God knowing someone in the womb that life and seed are sacred.
You forget that abortion was impossible in antiquity, even though there were attempts in this direction at that time. And that women had no rights over their bodies, as they were the property of father or husband.
Today, women can have abortions safely and safely, as women can decide their bodies on their own (Roe vs Wade in the US); something that fundamentalists in the US want to ban again.
 
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LindaBerlin

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As Christians we should not be having sex out of marriage. But if we are married then the child would be wanted.

So, in your opinion, should a couple not marry; who can't have children, or want to have them?
In a marriage, it is not only children who are made and born. A marriage, whether made by the state or the church, is a union between two people who love each other and want to share their lives. Sometimes both, or one of them, want children, sometimes they don't. In any case, it is the decision of the couple, not other people.
On the subject of sex before marriage:
I went into marriage chastely, my husband too. We had no idea about sexuality, and I experienced sexuality as violent and not tender. I don't blame my ex-husband, he didn't know better.
If we had both been able to gain first sexual experiences before marriage (without penetration), we would have known what we both like and don't like. And we could have talked about it openly. Either we would never have married, or we would still be a couple.
 
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Lukaris

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You keep saying that Bible verses have nothing to do with abortion & yet I also posted a church manual from about 100 AD
that says Christians are not to commit infanticide or abortion ( so I think the early Church was clear on that). What special knowledge do you have over these early Christians who followed the Bible?

You say the US Supreme Court wants to ban abortion & impose a theocracy. I have heard this nonsense for over 35 years and yet Roe v Wade is still law. Stop reading the Handmaid’s Tale.

Preaching the Gospel is for salvation not secular/social legislation ( Romans 13). The secular authorities who have promoted or banned abortion have varied from pagan, Christian (anti/abortion but often oppressive), to communists etc.

Abortion in Ancient Rome

History of abortion - Wikipedia

Christianity is pro life & preaching against adultery should be of transformation not coercive compliance. People will sin & mercy & repentance must be offered for those who become aware of it. While “back alley abortion” must not reoccur, we should not want to see anyone have to choose it to begin with.
 
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LindaBerlin

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You keep saying that Bible verses have nothing to do with abortion & yet I also posted a church manual from about 100 AD
that says Christians are not to commit infanticide or abortion ( so I think the early Church was clear on that).

On the biblical quotations: None of the quotations speaks directly about abortion, but only expresses how sacred life is.
Then to the church manual:

The word "infanticide" refers to the killing of children who are already alive. In antiquity, it was quite common to kill children, especially if they were physically or mentally disabled, too weak, or another "useless" eater. This has nothing to do with abortion. For more information, please see here:

Infanticide - Wikipedia

I quote:

Native Americans
In the Eastern Shoshone there was a scarcity of Indian women as a result of female infanticide.[109] For the Maidu Native Americans twins were so dangerous that they not only killed them, but the mother as well.[110] In the region known today as southern Texas, the Mariame Indians practiced infanticide of females on a large scale. Wives had to be obtained from neighboring groups.
 
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Lukaris

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The Book of Enoch, although not in most Bibles, was widely circulated among the early Christians. It clearly expresses an understanding of abortion to the fetus in the womb as among the forms of killing the fallen angels affected humans with. See Enoch 69:12:
The Book of Enoch, Section II

The book of Enoch is preserved as the 14th book of the Old Testament in the Ethiopian Orthodox Church:

The Ethiopian Orthodox Tewahedo Church
 
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LindaBerlin

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This book is regarded by the Christian world (Catholic and Evangelical Church, as well as evangelicals) as apocryphal, whose origin is not documented, just as little as the Gospel of Thomas or the Gospel of Judas.
Something that is to be regarded as an unsecured source should not be proclaimed as truth. This could inadvertently make you the wrong teacher and apostate.
 
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