Different state past

[florida2]

Jokes on you, Florida! Dad can't see how silly his theory is! You're the sucker in this game!

Maybe, maaaaaaaaaybe one day he'll see!

 

[dad]

i.e. A couple other ancient cultures mention a flood therefore the biblical account of a global flood has to be literally true the exact way I read it.

Nah, I wasn't even thinking of the flood, but the different laws of the past. The nature is recorded such as that loooong lives and real spirits living with men were the order of the day. That jives with the Man's account.

Also an ancient Sumerian manuscript says kings had reigns lasting thousands of years. Totally squares with long biblical lifespans dawg.

No need to totally square, I expect no such high standard from silly pagans. But the very fact that real long lives were spoken about means you must deal with a reality of some sort. Waving away all things that do not fit with your belief system is narrow minded.

That's some solid evidence right there. Forget about the Sumerian creation myth, rituals, and list of gods to worship. Let's just selectively focus on the stuff that validates the bible. That's being neutral right?

They had bad spirits like fleas too...so? That is also proof that more than the physical was a reality.

Why is the bible the word of god? Because it says so in the bible. Why should we trust the bible? Because it is the word of god.

Look into it. The reasons are manifold and solid.

 

[dad]

Think of history as a long list of letters and numbers, along with several methods (several different records) to measure it:

I've lined up the axises so that 'p' represents a non eventful cycle, 'E' represents an eventful cycle, 'd' represents a cycle being created (that is, the current layer).
The cycles are lined up with known, major historical events.
Past cycle 0 we don't have events that we have recorded in manmade records.

Ice layers
E p p E p p p p p p p E p p E p p p E E d
0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20

Trees
E p p E p p p p p p p E p p E p p p E E d
0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20

Geology
E p p E p p p p p p p E p p E p p p E E d
0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20


We use the method of induction (which is pretty much the only assumption science works by, that and epistemology) to read out the following layers:

Ice layers
p p E E p p
-200 -199 -198 -197 -196 -195 ... (etc)

(Trees doesn't go that far, but are reliable in close history)

Geology
p p E E p p
-200 -199 -198 -197 -196 -195 ... (etc)

We can come to the conclusion that something happened in the time -198 and -197.
If we want to know what happened we just have to compare with the events we know of, or try to explain what could have made that effect on the ice or the rock.



To say science assumes SSP is wrong, it's deducted.

No. Typing random letters doesn't actually give creedence to slow ice deposition, or tree growth in the past. Baby steps. Before getting into strings of letters, you need to practice connect the dots!

 

[dad]

]Haha, what?!

You claim that a different state of physical laws applied in the past yet there is no proof of such a thing[/SIZE] .

You claim that a same state of physical laws applied in the past yet there is no proof of such a thing.

Again, I claim that I was Superman yesterday, when different physical laws applied, but now those laws have changed I'm no longer have those powers. Prove me wrong.

Your same state and super powers must first rank consideration, by virtue of some real solid evidence, to warrant demolition. Work on that.

I do hope you'll see how silly your theory is and save yourself further embarrassment.

Actually, in deep space and the lowest earth, and all points in between, the realization that present state laws cannot apply is the wonderful illuminating key that opens up true comprehension.

 

[Elendur]

No. Typing random letters doesn't actually give creedence to slow ice deposition, or tree growth in the past. Baby steps. Before getting into strings of letters, you need to practice connect the dots!

If you say so. I can tell you the same though.
But you skipped the most important part:

To say science assumes SSP is wrong, it's deducted.

 

[Farinata]

Nah, I wasn't even thinking of the flood, but the different laws of the past. The nature is recorded such as that loooong lives and real spirits living with men were the order of the day. That jives with the Man's account. No need to totally square, I expect no such high standard from silly pagans. But the very fact that real long lives were spoken about means you must deal with a reality of some sort. Waving away all things that do not fit with your belief system is narrow minded.

So long as we're letting mythology count, then we should obviously take seriously the Greek's account of the Titanomachy. A literal war between gods. Or the Hopi belief that we exist in the 4th world, the first three already being destroyed by various means.

It may be written down, but it ain't necessarily so.

They had bad spirits like fleas too...so? That is also proof that more than the physical was a reality.

Except the Sumerians wouldn't call their gods bad spirits (or fallen angels or whatever the Christian term). You're saying the Sumerians were right in that their kings had superhuman lifespans but wrong in saying that Anu is the god of heaven. You're going in with the belief that your interpretation of the bible is completely true. Confirmation bias - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Look into it. The reasons are manifold and solid.

I have, much more than you know. I used to be a Christian. With a more objective lens, all the supposed proofs of the bible's divine origins are not at all convincing. Biblical scholarship only further sinks that ship.

 

[dad]

If you say so. I can tell you the same though.
But you skipped the most important part:

To say science assumes SSP is wrong, it's deducted.

False. It is FIRST assumed and accepted and believed. Obviously.

 

[dad]

So long as we're letting mythology count, then we should obviously take seriously the Greek's account of the Titanomachy. A literal war between gods. Or the Hopi belief that we exist in the 4th world, the first three already being destroyed by various means.

It may be written down, but it ain't necessarily so.

You have no choice but to take the observations of the records we do have and the spirits and long lives must be considered. Trying to grasp at straws of some later gods and legends involving spirits does nothing to alter that fact.

There is no alternative from science. They can't so much as detect a spirit if it sat on their head.

Except the Sumerians wouldn't call their gods bad spirits (or fallen angels or whatever the Christian term). You're saying the Sumerians were right in that their kings had superhuman lifespans but wrong in saying that Anu is the god of heaven. You're going in with the belief that your interpretation of the bible is completely true. Confirmation bias - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

No. I am not saying they are right in precise lifespans. But their records go toward evidence that long lifespans existed! As for what particular spirit they worshiped or liked, that doesn't matter. I can tell you they were all bad. So? That doesn't make em less real.

I have, much more than you know. I used to be a Christian. With a more objective lens, all the supposed proofs of the bible's divine origins are not at all convincing. Biblical scholarship only further sinks that ship.

No, you were ill informed to abandon ship. It is a good ship, and sailing on to eternity. Funny thing is, at various ports, it lets off passengers and usually picks em up again at a later time in another port. They come to realize that they had it wrong somehow, and that God was right and real all along.

Of course our destination is a different state port. The tour guides on board pass out brochures telling somewhat what the different state port of final call is like, so we can adjust well.

 

[Elendur]

False. It is FIRST assumed and accepted and believed. Obviously.

That is wrong.

Care to explain why you think it is assumed? Source?

 

[dad]

That is wrong.

Care to explain why you think it is assumed? Source?

Everywhere as far as the models of so called science is concerned, in every way without exception!

Continental drift? 'Gee it is now slow, must have taken a long time to separate!'

Evolving? 'Gee the process is slow now, must have taken a long time and started from a magic meteor dropping the right stuff for Granny Bacteria from space.'

Decay? 'Gee, the daughter material is now produced by decay in this state, so it all must have been produced that way, and taken a long long time..'

ad nausea

 

[Elendur]

Everywhere as far as the models of so called science is concerned, in every way without exception!

Continental drift? 'Gee it is now slow, must have taken a long time to separate!'

Evolving? 'Gee the process is slow now, must have taken a long time and started from a magic meteor dropping the right stuff for Granny Bacteria from space.'

Decay? 'Gee, the daughter material is now produced by decay in this state, so it all must have been produced that way, and taken a long long time..'

ad nausea

Those reasonings are build upon conclusions from heaps of evidence that shows no signs of DSP.

Present objective evidence of a DSP and you'll get a Nobel, guaranteed.

 

[Tiberius]

False. It is FIRST assumed and accepted and believed. Obviously.

No it is not.

 

[Tiberius]

You have no choice but to take the observations of the records we do have and the spirits and long lives must be considered. Trying to grasp at straws of some later gods and legends involving spirits does nothing to alter that fact.

Assuming, of course, that the records are accurate.

There is no alternative from science. They can't so much as detect a spirit if it sat on their head.

You start by assuming that there are spirits. Then you say that science can't detect them. Then you say that science is therefore wrong.

But it all starts from your assumption, doesn't it?

No. I am not saying they are right in precise lifespans. But their records go toward evidence that long lifespans existed! As for what particular spirit they worshiped or liked, that doesn't matter. I can tell you they were all bad. So? That doesn't make em less real.

Assuming, of course, that the records are accurate.

No, you were ill informed to abandon ship. It is a good ship, and sailing on to eternity. Funny thing is, at various ports, it lets off passengers and usually picks em up again at a later time in another port. They come to realize that they had it wrong somehow, and that God was right and real all along.

Of course our destination is a different state port. The tour guides on board pass out brochures telling somewhat what the different state port of final call is like, so we can adjust well.

Another one of your unsupported claims.

 

[dad]

Those reasonings are build upon conclusions from heaps of evidence that shows no signs of DSP.

Present objective evidence of a DSP and you'll get a Nobel, guaranteed.

Circular small minded thinking. If all we are assuming is a same state past, then we explain all things that way. How could we detect a different state past affected reality starting out like that???

 

[dad]

No it is not.

I gave examples. Deal with it.

 

[dad]

Assuming, of course, that the records are accurate.

False. They are the only records we have. They need not be gospel. Yet we may glean basic realities of the age from them, despite inaccuracies in detail.

You start by assuming that there are spirits. Then you say that science can't detect them. Then you say that science is therefore wrong.

The records clearly include spirits. Try again.


Another one of your unsupported claims.[/quote] Absurd. When I relate a parable like this


...No, you were ill informed to abandon ship. It is a good ship, and sailing on to eternity. Funny thing is, at various ports, it lets off passengers and usually picks em up again at a later time in another port. They come to realize that they had it wrong somehow, and that God was right and real all along.

Of course our destination is a different state port. The tour guides on board pass out brochures telling somewhat what the different state port of final call is like, so we can adjust well .


It is not a science claim, but more of a parable...illustrating great truths.


it is not a scientific or other sort of claim.

 

[Elendur]

Circular small minded thinking. If all we are assuming is a same state past, then we explain all things that way. How could we detect a different state past affected reality starting out like that???

I am the one using small minded circular thinking?
Are you even reading what you've written before posting?

I told you, science does not assume SSP.

This is a false assumption from your side.

 

[Tiberius]

False. They are the only records we have. They need not be gospel. Yet we may glean basic realities of the age from them, despite inaccuracies in detail.

False. Just because they are the only records we have doesn't mean that their reports of long lives are true.

The records clearly include spirits. Try again.

Once again, the records may not be accurate.

Absurd. When I relate a parable like this


...No, you were ill informed to abandon ship. It is a good ship, and sailing on to eternity. Funny thing is, at various ports, it lets off passengers and usually picks em up again at a later time in another port. They come to realize that they had it wrong somehow, and that God was right and real all along.

Of course our destination is a different state port. The tour guides on board pass out brochures telling somewhat what the different state port of final call is like, so we can adjust well .


It is not a science claim, but more of a parable...illustrating great truths.


it is not a scientific or other sort of claim.

Ah, but you are CLAIMING that it illustrates a great truth.

 

[DaneaFL]

Oh my nonexistent gods... we are actually using acronyms for these crazy ideas now??

"The official DSP versus SSP debate thread"

nooooo! don't do that... you might make the crazies feel legitimate if you label it.
Remember what happened when someone used the word "creation SCIENCE"???? shudder.... we don't want a repeat of THAT mess!

I prefer a relabeling to "The official idiots versus reality thread"

 

[Elendur]

Oh my nonexistent gods... we are actually using acronyms for these crazy ideas now??

"The official DSP versus SSP debate thread"

nooooo! don't do that... you might make the crazies feel legitimate if you label it.
Remember what happened when someone used the word "creation SCIENCE"???? shudder.... we don't want a repeat of THAT mess!

I prefer a relabeling to "The official idiots versus reality thread"

I'm too lazy to write out DSP and SSP every time.
Then again, I should be too lazy to respond to his posts...