Different God? Where does this come from?

[seebs]

I am frequently told that Jews do not worship the same God Christians do.

It seems to me the best way to learn about this would be to ask the Messianic Jews.

My understanding has always been that the dispute between Jews and Christians is on the nature of God, but that there is no doubt as to the identity of God. Everyone agrees that we are discussing the Creator of all things seen and unseen. Everyone agrees that we are discussing the one who made a covenant with Abraham, and guided Moses in leading the Hebrews out of Egypt.

So... How could they be different? Am I missing something? I would very much appreciate insights from the Messianic Jews, who are presumably the best qualified to speak on the boundaries between the faiths.

 

[seebs]

Actually, if you've got time to explain in more detail, I would very much like to understand this.

I am finding this VERY upsetting. The foundation of my understanding of Christianity has always been that the God of the Jews turned out to be the Real Thing, the one true God, and decided to let the rest of us in on His plan.

I mean...

If the Jews are worshipping the wrong God, who did Jesus cry out to?

I cannot reconcile this with anything I believe about Christianity, which is why I'm seeking guidance from people more familiar with the issue. I'm still a little too much in shock to understand this.

 

[simchat_torah]

Well, the answer to this question depends on who you ask.

Christians will tell you that yes, they worship the same G-d (at least most will). They say the messiah was the fulfillment of the same religion, etc.

Jews will tell you that no, they do not worship the same G-d (at least most will). They say that G-d can not come in the form of a man, that christianity is not monotheistic, Judaism does not bow to paganism as christinaity does, etc.

Messianics will typically fall anywhere between those two answers. Some Messianics will lean strongly towards one direction or the other. But there is no general consensus that you can refer to.


I hope this helps.

Shalom!
yafet

 

[simchat_torah]

If the Jews are worshipping the wrong God, who did Jesus cry out to?

Many Jews will tell you that "Jesus" was a nice little Jew from Israel who worshipped YHVH. Others will tell you he was a monster (or worse). For the most part, their answer depends on how much antisemitism their family (or they themselves) have received from the blunt end of christianity.

shalom,
yafet

 

[seebs]

So, people on both sides may hold either position? I guess that makes sense. I tend to think that, if the Jews are right, then I have some really confused beliefs about God, but I'm nonetheless talking about the same God; I just have some really dodgy theology.

 

[simchat_torah]

I have seen many christians declare that the Jews worship a different G-d because they don't believe "jesus" was G-d. However, that is a slim minority.

I have also seen Jews who will tell you the christians worship the same G-d, that christiainity was given by G-d to the gentiles and Judaism to the Jews. Yet again, this is a slim minority of Jews who view this.

The typical responses are what I noted in post #4.

shalom,
yafet

 

[ShirChadash]

Yeshua was a Jew, Seebs. And note what He told the woman at the well, in my siggy line. Rest assured brother, the Jews know Who it is they worship, and for now, Messiah has been hidden from many/most of them. Hidden by Whom? the Father. For what purpose? that *we* may be ingrafted to a relationship with their G-d, and that He may become OUR G-d. This baloney about there being a G-d of the old testament, and a better G-d of the New Testament is just that. Baloney. See my other thread on "Yeshua gave us Judaism" if you like. But I'll tell ya this, for short -- you're right. Those arguing the Jews don't know/worship the one true Real G-d... they're wrong.

 

[Hix]

There is also a number of Jews who believe that becuase christians worship one G-d but call him by a different name it is permissible under noachide law. However this only applies to those christians who do not worship a trinity, and it is only seen as permissible by certain Rabbis becuase the goyim do not have the oral Torah and therefor cant comprehend the written Torah in its fullness.

Then again it isnt a very large amount of people who believe this. As Yafet said the vast majority would say it is a different G-d as number 2 in the Rambams 13 principles of faith and a major factor is that G-d does not have a body nor a form.

As for christians the vast majority accept the Jews believe in the same G-d as they do, however there are some known as "replacement theologists" who believe they are the new Israel and that the Jews may as well be satanists. *shakes head* its so very sad.

Shalom and G-d bless
~Hix~

 

[iitb]

Statements made otherwise are from ignorance as well as being rooted in Replacement Theology, which has infected the church to it's core.

I never realized how big of a problem this was until coming here. As if claiming that G-d cast aside his chosen people for the church wasn't bad enough, it seems that groups of christians also like to claim that other groups of christians are going to Hell for various reasons.

Why are people more likely to point a finger with charges of heresy than to extend a hand in friendship?

 

[ShirChadash]

*sigh* good question Justin.

 

[seebs]

I never realized how big of a problem this was until coming here. As if claiming that G-d cast aside his chosen people for the church wasn't bad enough, it seems that groups of christians also like to claim that other groups of christians are going to Hell for various reasons.

Why are people more likely to point a finger with charges of heresy than to extend a hand in friendship?

Let me post a story that I stumbled across in the Faith & Practice book for the Philadelphia Yearly Meeting of the RSOF. I think it'll help.

In the years immediately following the First World War, the Quakers worked in Poland distributing food and clothing. A woman worker who served a cluster of villages became ill with typhus, and in twenty-four hours she was dead. In this village there was only a Roman Catholic cemetary, and by canonical law it was quite impossible to bury one not of that confession in its consecrated ground. They laid their cherished friend in a grave dug just outside the fence of the Roman Catholic cemetary and the next morning they discovered that in the night the villagers had moved the fence so that it embraced the grave.

 

[g4goddess]

So, people on both sides may hold either position? I guess that makes sense. I tend to think that, if the Jews are right, then I have some really confused beliefs about God, but I'm nonetheless talking about the same God; I just have some really dodgy theology.

*sigh*

this is something i struggle with, lately daily

a lot of it seems "dodgy" to me too.

sorry. back on topic now.

 

[ShirChadash]

G4 -- I love your lil Nemo Avatar. Always makes me smile to see Nemo (my 3 yo son loves that lil fishie)... and I needed a smile about now. Just wanted to say thanks for posting, too.


Shalom, peace.

 

[g4goddess]

thanks. i love poking around in this forum, but have never posted here before

 

[ShirChadash]

well you just keep jumping right on in -- good to see you here.

 

[koilias]

I never realized how big of a problem this was until coming here. As if claiming that G-d cast aside his chosen people for the church wasn't bad enough, it seems that groups of christians also like to claim that other groups of christians are going to Hell for various reasons.

Why are people more likely to point a finger with charges of heresy than to extend a hand in friendship?

Amen, Justin...

The more they are quick to condemn, the more they are raising the bar on themselves.

 

[Plan 9]

Somehow, I've gone thirty-five years as a Christian without ever running into replacement theology before. Today must have been my lucky day.
If there's someone who can explain it to me without hurling, I would certainly appreciate it. Someone you-know-where also mentioned "Shepherd's Chapel"?
Maybe seebs is right and my theology is dodgy, but at least I know better than to throw out the Torah, and, in doing so, also throw out the four Gospels, the Letter to the Hebrews and who knows what else. When I got done doing that, there'd be nothing left on which to base my faith, and I'm not ready to kid myself into believing that I somehow disinherited G-d's Chosen People. That's nonsensical; it's ridiculous. I'll go with dodgy in preference to something that ludicrous.
I'm so sorry; I'm so upset that I'm probably not expressing myself at all well.

 

[P_G]

I don't know I just don't know.

I am convinced that it sprouts from a deep love of man made doctrines and inturpertations than from scripture. I am revulsed when I see tradition elevated to the place of the word of G-d! And yet this is what men do.

Y'shuah hated it. See it's called RELIGION. And G-d HATES RELIGION!
(Please see the beatitudes)

And I think our Jewish friends fall into the same trap so lets not be to quick to wash our hands here!

I am not a Jew
I do not live as a gentile

Me I just follow Y'shuah best I can each day and thank him for his grace and his mercy towards me. I bless Ha'Shem for the gift of his law and do my best to keep it to the level of my understanding and conviction. And I listen to the voice of Rauch Ha'Kodesh, when he says lay hands on the sick I do. Most of the time they get better sometimes they don't.

I teach others what I have learned and listen to those who are smarter than I am.

A simple faith
A simple walk
A simple life

Like my Chasitic freind says
I read a little Torah
I do some mitzphoh
And G-d takes care of the rest


So now don't be confused
Moshe wasn't confused!
When the bush starts to talk it's G-d


Be blessed ya'll I am kind of disgusted with the whole thing

My motto
you want to be a good Christian?
Be a good Jew first!


Blessings

Pastor George

 

[ILY]

Shalom all,
I must have missed something! Did someone post a bogus "replacement theology thread here

YbiY <><
ILY

 

[The Thadman]

My motto
you want to be a good Christian?
Be a good Jew first!

Truly! That's motto to live by

(And with that in mind, mind if I "steal" it? )

Shlomo,
-Steve-o