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Differences between Anglicans and Baptists

Discussion in 'Scripture,Tradition,Reason-Anglican & Old Catholic' started by kayfeather, Aug 30, 2015.

  1. kayfeather

    kayfeather Member

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    Baptists do not believe in infant baptism, and only consider full-immersion baptisms at a consenting age to be valid.

    Baptists do not believe in apostolic succession, and have a much looser heirarchy within their faith tradition than the Anglican/Episcopalian heirarchy of deacons, priests and bishops.

    Baptists do not practice 'sacramental worship'. Art, statues, icons and other imagery is considered by them to be idolatry and is therefore absent from their places of worship.

    Baptists seldom celebrate the eucharist, if at all.

    Baptists reject all major councils and creeds, since they are seen as human-inspired and not divinely inspired. They are solely Bible-based, interpreting scripture literally. Most believe the Bible is completely without error.

    Am I off base on any of these? Are there other differences I did not mention?
     
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  2. Albion

    Albion Facilitator

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    I'd say you're on target. There are some others, such as their famous aversion to a mixing of Church and State, but the question probably becomes "Are there any other differences that are significant enough to deserve a mention?"
     
  3. kayfeather

    kayfeather Member

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    Thank you for the reply. :) I'll be visiting some Baptist relatives soon who love to ask questions and I wanted to come prepared.
     
  4. Albion

    Albion Facilitator

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    Yes. At first glance, I thought you overlooked some things, but upon closer examination I saw that you'd included them. It's just that you created (IMHO) a tidy, concise summary.

    ...........................................................................................................


    Baptists do not believe in infant baptism, and only consider full-immersion baptisms at a consenting age to be valid.

    Baptists do not believe in apostolic succession, and have a much looser hierarchy [* i.e. congregational automony] within their faith tradition than the Anglican/Episcopalian heirarchy of deacons, priests and bishops.

    Baptists do not practice 'sacramental worship'. Art, statues, icons and other imagery is considered by them to be idolatry and is therefore absent from their places of worship.

    Baptists seldom celebrate the eucharist, if at all.

    Baptists reject all major councils and creeds [*very important--nothing imposed between God and Man], since they are seen as human-inspired and not divinely inspired. They are solely Bible-based, interpreting scripture literally. Most believe the Bible is completely without error.
     
    Last edited: Aug 30, 2015
  5. Mockingbird0

    Mockingbird0 Mimus polyglottos

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    Baptists, or some baptists, believe in the importance of Scripture, and believe in the importance of the individual's well-informed, independent conscience.
     
  6. Albion

    Albion Facilitator

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    I believe Kayfeather covered that:

     
  7. gordonhooker

    gordonhooker Franciscan tssf Supporter

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    I used to go along to a Baptist Church with a motor cyclist friend of mine my years ago that was a Baptist and at the Sunday evening service they celebrated the eucharist twice a month.

    I wonder they determined which of the people wrote divinely inspired stuff and which ones didn't (reference to all major councils and creeds), and so the beloved disciple could run faster than Peter? I have to say that after experiencing it - Proverbs 21:19 is most certainly correct.... :)

    I am not trying to be rude I just find after many years of discussions especially about the doctrine of 'Biblical Ierrancy' that I am well and truly over it.
     
    Last edited: Sep 1, 2015
  8. mark46

    mark46 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I would note that many Baptists are not literalists. Many believe that Scripture is free from error in all statements regarding the faith or morality (as Catholics do)

     
  9. Albion

    Albion Facilitator

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    That's a valid point, but I still think that our friend crafted a pretty sound summary there. Of course, we recognize that no such brief overview is going to account for every nuance and internal division, no matter what denomination is being described.
     
  10. gordonhooker

    gordonhooker Franciscan tssf Supporter

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    You may be correct as I don't know all Baptists (there have been quite a few) but the ones I do know have all been literalists.
     
  11. mark46

    mark46 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    There are many, many flavors of Baptist. When I lived in New Hampshire, we had 14 different Baptist "denominations" with driving distance. For the most part, members of one do not go the churches of the others.
     
  12. mark46

    mark46 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    fair enough
     
  13. Albion

    Albion Facilitator

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    Well, for one thing inerrancy and literalness are two different things.

    And inerrancy itself is viewed in several different ways by people who say they believe in it. For example, many Anglicans believe the Bible to be inerrant...in matters of faith, while there are Fundamentalists who typically think every last word is inerrant ("verbal inerrancy") as well as meant to be taken literally.
     
  14. gordonhooker

    gordonhooker Franciscan tssf Supporter

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    Who said they were the same thing?
     
  15. Rachel96

    Rachel96 Member

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    Baptists, like Anglicans, run a pretty wide spectrum of belief and practice. Some Baptist churches can be fairly formal, with hymns you'd recognise, and eucharist (communion) pretty much every week. Others are very, very low church, practically Pentecostal, with nothing resembling a liturgy and communion maybe twice a year.

    But basically I think the summary in the OP is pretty good. I was raised in Baptist churches by a rampantly anti-Anglican father and a secretly-still-Anglican mother, and I now worship in a traditional Anglican parish while attending a Baptist-run Bible college, so I'm pretty familiar with the similarities/differences but still not as up on Anglican beliefs as I probably should be. So here are my comments:

    1 - This is probably the main problem Baptists take with Anglicans. My father talks about infant baptism as a "deception he was delivered from", so that's... a fairly typical Baptist opinion on infant baptism. Baptists generally won't baptise anyone under about twelve years of age (I was six or seven when I decided I wanted to be baptised, and made to wait quite a few years because I "wasn't old enough to make that decision"), and always full immersion. To baptise babies is considered "popery" and referred to as "christening" or, even more derogatorily, "sprinkling".

    2 - Baptists have no hierarchy. Whatsoever. I'm still not entirely clear on what "apostolic succession" is, although I have a fairly good idea, so that should indicate how much of it Baptists have. Authority in Baptist churches doesn't extend beyond the local congregation, although there might be some "unions" or "conferences", there are certainly no parish councils, dioceses, or synods. There might be well-known preachers considered semi-authoritative by lots of churches, or a Bible college / seminary with a bit of sway, but that's it.

    Baptists would consider Jesus - and Jesus alone - to be the head of the Church (citing passages like 1 Corinthians 1 and so on, and not really knowing how to react on topics such as Peter as the foundation or James as the first bishop) and don't take authority-figures well (although, you know, the Anglican hierarchy is pretty horizontal and seems to involve a lot of committees of lay people, so I'm not sure what the problem is). As one of my lecturers likes to put it, "Baptists were born out of schism and have a very weak ecclesiology".

    3 - "Sacrament" is another one of those words which Baptists will dismiss out of hand as "popery", but sacraments such as baptism, marriage, communion, ordination ("commissioning"), and anointing of the sick all still exist to varying extents. Any sort of statue, icon, or imagery is considered idolatory, although most Baptist churches will make liberal use of text (Bible verses), graphics, and pictures of flowers and landscapes in the place of worship.

    4 - This is the only point I disagree with. I don't think there are many Baptist churches which celebrate communion weekly (one of the main issues my grandfather, an Anglican priest, takes with them), but certainly most will do it monthly at least, and some fortnightly. It's usually a loaf of bread and some grape juice, though, and not wafer and wine. They're usually passed around on little trays from pew to pew, so frankly I find the Anglican method (queuing, kneeling) a lot tidier! This is also one of the only places where Baptists have something resembling a liturgy - 1 Corinthians 11:23-25 is usually read as communion is given.

    5 - I never encountered the Creed in a Baptist church, outside of a praise chorus which has become popular recently (see ), but I expect most Baptists would agree to it. Probably the only council which is recognised would be the Jerusalem Council in Acts 15, but churches would also point to various Confessions of Faith, such as the 1644 and 1689 confessions - a church's given "Statement of Faith" is usually taken from one like that.

    As a generalisation - because, as in point 2, there are no absolute statements for every Baptist church - Baptists believe the Bible as divinely-inspired, without error, and interpret it pretty literally. This doesn't mean that everyone interprets it the same, though! (I know that, in the US particularly, Baptists can get pretty divided over Calvinism). But a lot of things are taken pretty much as-read. A lot of Baptists definitely hold to verbal inerrancy, and some can be pretty rabidly KJV-only and take *that* literally rather than the original language...

    6 - I'm adding this one. Baptists can be highly suspicious of any sort of memorised "rote" prayer. The BCP is seen as more of a hindrance to worship than a help, hymns and chants are dreary and the latter possibly occult, and I won't even start on what's thought of the liturgy. I don't know that this is actually a difference in faith or belief, but just something to be aware of as an Anglican in a Baptist setting.

    But, anyway, when you visit your relatives, it would be best I think if you could tell them all the ways in which Anglicans and Baptists are the *same*. A lot of Baptists regard Anglicans with no small amount of suspicion and consider them basically Catholics (which is basically tantamount to following the Antichrist in some circles). When it comes down to it, there are fewer differences between Anglicans and Baptists than Baptists like to think.

    I've probably been going on too long, and not said anything new to anyone, so sorry about that. It's just something I've been thinking about *a lot* recently, so I may have seized on the topic a little too voraciously...
     
  16. mark46

    mark46 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    When I was a Southern Baptist, as you say, we didn't have the Creed. My pastor agreed with the Creed, excepted the mistranslation of Jesus decending into Hell. We did use the Doxoly often.

    Some would not call what we did liturgy, but the pattern of worship was pretty constant. 4 hymns, a collection, a sermon and an alter call, with one additional component each week (communion, mission report, etc.).

     
  17. kayfeather

    kayfeather Member

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    Thank you for this post! I wasn't really raised Christian even though the majority of my relatives identify as Southern Baptist. I did attend a Southern Baptist church with a friend during high school for a bit but my memories of those times are somewhat fuzzy. There seemed to be a consensus among members of that church that Catholics were basically pagans because they "worshiped" Mary and the saints. I only remember them celebrating communion once in the four-ish months I attended.

    I didn't know they considered the BCP a hindrance to worship. "The BCP is seen as more of a hindrance to worship than a help, hymns and chants are dreary and the latter possibly occult, and I won't even start on what's thought of the liturgy." This gave me a good laugh, because before becoming Christian I was a pagan and witch. Here I thought I was getting away from the occult!! :tearsofjoy:
     
  18. kayfeather

    kayfeather Member

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    Thanks everyone for the responses. :)
     
  19. rakovsky

    rakovsky Newbie

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    Yes, there are other major differences. Besides Anglicans teaching "prima scriptura" and treating Tradition as a major source of authority, I think Reformed teach some version of Calvin's ideas on Predestination (eg. TULIP), they don't commemorate holy Christians (saints), they take a Zwinglian view of the Eucharist whereby there is no communion with Christ other than what happens any other time when "two or more are gathered". They also put a major emphasis on a "penal" version of theology or atonement theology that non-Calvinists don't emphasize as much.
     
  20. Brian Parent

    Brian Parent New Member

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    Well, my mother was Madeleen Florence Boone, a direct descendant of Capt. Samuel Boone Jr. who married Mary Wightman, daughter of Reverend John Wightman whose brother Reverend Valentine Wightman (buried in The Wightman Cemetery - Groton, CT in 1747 who was the husband of Susannah Holmes, daughter of Mary Holmes, daughter of Mary Sayles, daughter of Roger Williams, The Founder of The State of Rhode Island & Founder of The First Baptist Church built in America in 1636. Reverend John Wightman (m. Jane Bentley) and Reverend Valeint Wightman (m. Susannah Holmes) where the sons of Reverend George Wightman and Elizabeth Updyke. Reverend George Wightman's son, John Wightman or Johannis Wightman, was the son of Reverend Edward Wightman (Ana-Baptist) who was burned at the stake by King James The First in 1612. John Wightman watched his father burned at the stake at the age of 11 years old. He lived in England during The English Civil War when Protestants executed Anglican King Charles The First and his wife, Henrietta Maria, born in Paris, France in 1609. Of course, King Charles I was an Anglican and Henrietta Maria was Catholic. Of course, Sir Edward Cook introduced The European Parliament Bill of Rights in 1628, and Roger Williams *University/ Smithsonian, History Dot Com, was a student of Sir Edward Cook which is under Roger Williams Org's Biography. Oh...it wasn't only Protestants from Ireland who were upset over King Charlie's marriage, The Wightman Family were upset as well. John Wightman moved to The United States in 1654 and was on Roger Williams' Petit Jury in 1661. Of course, Sir Edward Cook's Parliament Bill of Rights was shot down at first when he was also sent to prison over it. However, Sir Edward Cook's Parliament Bill of Rights began to gain ground after he was released from prison. King James II (r. 1685–88) tried to reinstate Catholic worship in England, coupled with his increasingly authoritarian responses to resistance, resulted in a wave of unrest in 1688" British Library under Sir Edward Cook and The Parliament Bill of Rights. which led to the removal of King James The II replaced by his nephew, Prince William of Orange otherwise known as Prince William The III, and Sir Edward Cook's Parliament Bill of Rights were honored by The Magna Carta. Reverend Edward Wightman, burned at the stake in Litchfield, England was The Last Protestant Martyr from The First, John Rogers (encyclopedias / Christianity Dot Com) who was burned at the stake in 1555 by the order of Queen Mary The First also known as Mary Tudor or "Bloody Mary." Queen Mary The First was the daughter of King Henry The VIII and Catherine of Aragon, the widow of King Henry The VIII's brother, Arthur Tudor who died in 1502 before his brother, King Henry The VIII, married his wife, Catherine of Aragon in 1509. John Rogers (Protestant) set out to edit the errors and publish William Tyndale's New Testament Bible which later became known as The King James Version of The Bible. John Rogers, The First of many Protestant Martyrs was burned at the stake in 1555. William Tyndale was the first person to ever translate The New Testament into English from Greek (Latin) not long after Martin Luther was the first to translate The New Testament into German from Greek Latin who posted his 95 Theses (1517) in regards to the corruption coming from within The Roman Catholic Church under Pope Leo X (1514) "Corruption Roman Catholic Church Early 1500s" Encyclopedia Britiannica. Of course, King Henry The VIII's 2nd wife, Anne Boleyn (Protestant) changed things more during The Protestant Reformation more so than Martin Luther did. John Rogers sparked The Protestant Reformation that led to The English Civil War and The 30 Years' War as well as The Great Puritan Migration under English Minister John Smyth. Oh...Pastor John Robinson was a follower of English Minister John Smyth who died in Amsterdam in 1612 where his followers, Purtians, set out to convince other Puritans and Protestants of forming a Pilgrimage called, 'The Great Puritan Migration' also known as The Mayflower, Speedwell, and The Fortune. Of course, today, we are not taught about Hessian Troops which is on from Hesse, Germany that Frederick The II supplied to The British after he married Princess Mary, the daughter of King George The II during The American Civil War. Oh...Hessian Troops on Mount Vernon Org's website. Of course, Mount Vernon's website on George Washington claims that England hired them as mercenaries. Oh....Frederick The II who married Princess Mary is mentioned through Founders dot Archives dot Org as well as through The Journals of The House of Commons, Vol. 23, page 488 as well as through The Collections Royal Trust Website. As for Mayer Amschel Rothschild as depicted in the movie, "The House of Rothschild," he was an agent of Prince Williams Landgrave IX of Hesse Kassel out of Germany who funded Britain's Troops, the son of Frederick The II. Of course, today, Trump was funded by Wilbur Ross, chairman for The Rothschild Banking Barons, and Lady Lynn Forester de Rothschild funded Hillary Clintnton's campaign. Of course, Bush is a descendant of The British Royals. Oh...I know a lot more than that @teapartytruther Twitter. Oh....I searched Twitter for what people are mentioning about The Rothschilds. Elon Musk mentioned the Rothschilds. His Tweet was erased, so he bought out Twitter to restore our U.S. First Amedment. Well, Roger Williams introduced The Separation of Church & State onboard The Lyon in 1631. He was thrown out of Massachusetts over that, but it later gained ground as well. In 1802-3, The Separation of Church & State became The Clause to our U.S. First Amendment between The Danbury Baptist Association & Thomas Jefferson in Danbury, CT. Separation of Church & State (U.S. Library of Congress, Smithsonian, Founders dot Archives dot Gov, Smithsonian, U.S. Bill of Rights Institute).
     
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