Diet & Christian Ethics

[Verv]

We talk about sex enough... I'd like to bring up an idea for discussion concerning a Christian perspective on the diet of a person and see what the general thoughts on it are...

Christians are told to not be gluttonous in several points of the Bible -- as it says in Philippians 3:19: "Their god is their appetite, they brag about shameful things, and they think only about this life here on earth."

The OT only vaguely hints at gluttony but Christianity takes it to a new step, replacing dietary laws with real views on avoidance of overindulging in food or drink.

In the 21st century perhaps we see these problems even far more clearly in practical terms than previous Christians: distinct health problems occur amongst those who are gluttons, causing the shortening of their lives and generally unhealthy bodies that hurt the quality of life that the people enjoy. Furthermore, while many of us are overindulgent in foods others are malnourished and our monopolization of the land to grow only the things we desire to eat has resulted in a lack of healthier foods for others.

Ironically, it is more expensive now to eat healthy than it is to eat unhealthily due to the compounded gluttony that capitalism has more or less produced amongst us.

The harms become more visible in the 21st century yet people do not want to curb their desires.

Another thought of importance on this is that indulgence in fine drink or food is indulgence in the senses, which at its roots is self-serving and can become a purpose in one's life unto itself. As surely as people can overindulge in sex or greed they can also overindulge in food. By overindulging in food we are setting the precedent of living for the fulfillment of our bodies and thus living in a self-centered fashion.

It produces the view that our lives are no longer for the intellectual and moral development vital to the self, nor to the help and service that we can give to others who are in need all over this world, but rather for the fulfillment of the base, animal senses of the self.

Gluttony serves the same god that the other sins all gear themselves towards: living for one's animal senses.

The ideal we should strive for is eating a diet that emphasizes health over taste and to eat proper portions of food as opposed to eating too much.

It is due to a failure in teachings amongst American Christians that we are the fattest nation and also are identified as 83% Christian.

 

[jayem]

I can't disagree with your conclusion. Our society is overweight and we should eat a healthier diet.

But as a non-theist, I approach it naturalistically. Our evolution gives us a tendency to overeat and a taste for rich foods. Fat has a higher caloric value (9 Cal/gram) than carbs or protein (4 Cal/gram.) For the hunter-gatherer hominid, who never knows where his next meal may come from, gorging on whatever food is available, especially high fat foods, provides the most calories. And if he can store what he doesn't immediately need as body fat, he is more likely to survive a famine. So natural selection favors individuals with a taste for high fat food and big appetites. And particularly favors individuals who can easily gain weight. In the modern world of course, this is an unhealthy trait. I don't see gluttony as a "sin." It's an inability to control a behavioral tendency which has been hard-wired by evolution. An a tendency toward obesity is also biologically based, since it had survival value at one time. Overcoming these are difficult, and requires self-control and major lifestyle changes. But I think it's better to approach in physiologic, rather than moral terms.

 

[The Nihilist]

Well, I know that about 500 years ago, German Catholics largely lived on a diet of worms.

 

[Verv]

I can't disagree with your conclusion. Our society is overweight and we should eat a healthier diet.

But as a non-theist, I approach it naturalistically. Our evolution gives us a tendency to overeat and a taste for rich foods. Fat has a higher caloric value (9 Cal/gram) than carbs or protein (4 Cal/gram.) For the hunter-gatherer hominid, who never knows where his next meal may come from, gorging on whatever food is available, especially high fat foods, provides the most calories. And if he can store what he doesn't immediately need as body fat, he is more likely to survive a famine. So natural selection favors individuals with a taste for high fat food and big appetites. And particularly favors individuals who can easily gain weight. In the modern world of course, this is an unhealthy trait. I don't see gluttony as a "sin." It's an inability to control a behavioral tendency which has been hard-wired by evolution. An a tendency toward obesity is also biologically based, since it had survival value at one time. Overcoming these are difficult, and requires self-control and major lifestyle changes. But I think it's better to approach in physiologic, rather than moral terms.

Good analysis and thanks for adding this.

I would not expect you to view it as a sin because atheists tend to have more limited views of right and wrong and are more for a sense of moral egalitarianism.

 

[feral]

Gluttony serves the same god that the other sins all gear themselves towards: living for one's animal senses.

The ideal we should strive for is eating a diet that emphasizes health over taste and to eat proper portions of food as opposed to eating too much.

It is due to a failure in teachings amongst American Christians that we are the fattest nation and also are identified as 83% Christian.

Do you suppose one of the reasons 'sins' like gluttony are often neglected from sermons is due to the high percentage of the population that struggles with them? It does seem that people are often willing to pay attention to others' 'motes' while ignoring their own 'beam'; such as in the case of homosexuality. There is outrage and disgust expressed about out homosexuality, but I've yet to see a protest outside the McDonald's or a mock-stoning suggested against those who take part in church suppers.

Well, I know that about 500 years ago, German Catholics largely lived on a diet of worms.

Uh huh, and we're supposed to be getting moral direction from them....?

 

[cantata]

As you know, JM, I see nothing wrong with enjoying good food, drink, sex, or other pleasant things.

But I am also sorely aware of the poor quality of many British and American people's diets, and I think that education and possibly a tax scheme is the key to it all. In the UK you have to pay VAT on biscuits and sweets, I think. It's pretty tempting to suggest adding it to fast food, too...

I think you are going to be hard-pressed to convince people to eat healthily if taste is at the bottom of your list of qualities of a good diet. Give a 16-year-old a choice between a burger and a bowl of gruel... I don't think you'll get very far. Healthy food is, in many cases, far tastier and more interesting than food that's bad for you. We have to sell it that way! When I was little, my mum treated berries and other fruits like sweets around me; when preparing our pudding, she would put a raspberry or a grape into my hand with a conspiratorial "Ooh, let's have one now, shall we?" I think instilling a sense of excitement about good food is absolutely the way to go if we want to combat obesity.

I think children need to be given some idea of how to cook a tempting and wholesome meal themselves. When I was at school, we had cooking lessons (otherwise known, cryptically, as Home Economics), but we learned to make mostly puddings and cakes. It wouldn't have been hard to show us how to make a stir-fry, or a pasta dish. Confidence in the kitchen, and enthusiasm for good food, is the key to a good diet. I'm afraid you can't have it both ways. Most people are not going to avoid eating things they like just for the sake of moderation. You need to tempt them somehow, and a healthier lifestyle plus food they enjoy eating seem the ideal "carrots" as opposed to your rather austere "stick".

 

[Verv]

As you know, JM, I see nothing wrong with enjoying good food, drink, sex, or other pleasant things.

But I am also sorely aware of the poor quality of many British and American people's diets, and I think that education and possibly a tax scheme is the key to it all. In the UK you have to pay VAT on biscuits and sweets, I think. It's pretty tempting to suggest adding it to fast food, too...

I think you are going to be hard-pressed to convince people to eat healthily if taste is at the bottom of your list of qualities of a good diet. Give a 16-year-old a choice between a burger and a bowl of gruel... I don't think you'll get very far. Healthy food is, in many cases, far tastier and more interesting than food that's bad for you. We have to sell it that way! When I was little, my mum treated berries and other fruits like sweets around me; when preparing our pudding, she would put a raspberry or a grape into my hand with a conspiratorial "Ooh, let's have one now, shall we?" I think instilling a sense of excitement about good food is absolutely the way to go if we want to combat obesity.

I think children need to be given some idea of how to cook a tempting and wholesome meal themselves. When I was at school, we had cooking lessons (otherwise known, cryptically, as Home Economics), but we learned to make mostly puddings and cakes. It wouldn't have been hard to show us how to make a stir-fry, or a pasta dish. Confidence in the kitchen, and enthusiasm for good food, is the key to a good diet. I'm afraid you can't have it both ways. Most people are not going to avoid eating things they like just for the sake of moderation. You need to tempt them somehow, and a healthier lifestyle plus food they enjoy eating seem the ideal "carrots" as opposed to your rather austere "stick".

You are right -- it is quite an austere 'stick.' Well said.

It goes back to the idea, though, that much of Christendom practices hypocrisy by ranting and raving about things easy to fulfill for most Christians, e.g. not being gay, yet issues that truly effect their own personal, spiritual life are ignored if it is deemed inconvenient.

Of course, the religion isn't all about sticks. There should be pleasure in all of our lives but focusing our lives around the achievement of sensual pleasure is the no-no. It sends the wrong message and erects a barrier between ourselves and Holiness.

Good health is needed -- both spiritually and physically.

 

[cantata]

It goes back to the idea, though, that much of Christendom practices hypocrisy by ranting and raving about things easy to fulfill for most Christians, e.g. not being gay, yet issues that truly effect their own personal, spiritual life are ignored if it is deemed inconvenient.

I think it is certainly reasonable to point out to Christians that there's more to being a good person than just not having gay sex.

 

[Nooj]

Uh huh, and we're supposed to be getting moral direction from them....?

Diet of Worms.

 

[Tenka]

JM, can I suggest that you post this in a forum where Christians are more likely to see it? My experience with bringing up this issue is that it is ignored by the target audience.
Also, do you think gluttony would include and frivolous waste of resources? This may include things like impractical vehicles that consume huge amounts of fuels. My view is that gluttony in the eating sense is not only unhealthy but wasteful and therefore indirectly harmful to others.