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Hey, guys?
Question:
What makes you think Noah even lived in Mesopotamia at the time he built the Ark?
Didn't the Ark end its journey there?
Frumious, do you even understand the question I'm asking?Silly me. I thought Genesis 2 was talking about events prior to Genesis 7&8.
From where it was built -- (and you know where I think it was built) -- to the mountains of Ararat.Question: How far was the Ark meant to travel?
From where it was built -- (and you know where I think it was built) -- to the mountains of Ararat.
I'd say a distance of about 2000 miles.
Negative.You're saying that's what it was designed to do? It was a sailing vessel, and not merely meant to float?
Negative.
It is a containment vessel -- nothing more.
Meant only to float.
I understand that you add your own weird interpretation to the Bible that you supposedly take literally whenever it suits you to do so.Frumious, do you even understand the question I'm asking?
It sounds like you don't.
Such as?Redwoods grew around the earth in ancient times and were quite prolific (according to those who study Redwoods).
... a perfectly valid conclusion, I suppose,There is still a grove of 'Dawn Redwoods' growing in China. The Redwood is a member of the Cypress family. The words 'gopher' wood and 'cypress' occur only once each in scripture, and are distinct from each other. Thus I conclude that gopher wood is not cypress...
Based on what?... but redwood.
Frumious seems to disagree with the "strong enough" part. In any case, you basically believe that gopher wood means redwood because it fits the story you want to tell? Excuse me if I remain sceptical.Redwood is light in weight but strong enough for the long planking of the ark.
By your own words, this doesn't mean it had to be redwood (could also have been cedar).Stronger woods could have been used for other parts of the superstructure. Another reason that I believe redwood was used extensively was that God instructed Noah to cover both the outside and inside with pitch. This inner layer of pitch would have protected the passengers from the strong and possibly unhealthy outgassing of the aromatic oils from some cedars and redwood.
As you said, redwood is pretty light, so by default nothing made of redwood, no matter how heavy, would be a submarine (buoyancy is determined by density, not weight). For something to "barely float", by which I assume stay at the surface but not protrude too much, it would need a density equal to or slightly smaller than that of the liquid it has to float in. Would there be enough heavy stuff on the ark to achieve that?It is possible that oak and cypress were also used. Different woods have different properties, but the main wood was to be 'gopher', a species of 'cypress' but not called by that name. Regarding the 'seaworthiness' of the ark, it's great weight would have caused it to barely float.
I did not bother to watch them. But I am sure that they assume the flood included violent flow of huge amount of water, giant waves, etc. But most likely, in most places of the world, the flood would be a fast but gradual rising of water. A small rowboat could save a few people in that case.
Do you really think trading jocularity for understanding is a fair trade?Which gives way to the morbid, yet humorous image of millions of people wading in mere inches of water, as it takes 40 days to rise.
Do you really think trading jocularity for understanding is a fair trade?
I take it you've never been in a world-wide flood?I told the point I made in a humorous manner, because the notion is actually quite humorous.
Interesting. I said 'region' and you changed it to 'area', which is most often much smaller. This is a good, but intellectually dishonest, debating technique. It borders on a fabricated 'strawman' arguement. So while there may not have been redwoods growing at that time in the 'area' of Mesopotamia, it is entirely probable that they did grow somewhere in the greater 'region' of the middle East, and would have been available to Noah (but he could have imported finished redwood timbers from China). The producers of these shows have no interest in facts. Their purpose is to debunk the bible story.
Does anyone know what modern country the mountains of Ararat lie?From where it was built -- (and you know where I think it was built) -- to the mountains of Ararat.
I'd say a distance of about 2000 miles.
I would say 'yes' -- but I don't know who.Does anyone know what modern country the mountains of Ararat lie?
Wow, sounds like you really believe this. Good on ya'.The ark was not a ship, it was a large box with a superstrong honeycomb structure that gave it enormous strength. With it's load, perhaps including ballast, it was very heavy and floated low in the water, thus not subject to the same stresses encountered by a 'ship'. It's probable location, on a slope above the plain, meant that the flood waters would be rising relatively slowly when they reached it, and even slower as it was propelled up the slope of the mountains of Ararat. It traveled approximately 500 miles before coming to rest. It's construction would have been known through the entire civilized world, much like the pyramids of Egypt. Thousands would have been employed in it's construction under the direction of Noah as general contractor. Materials, artisans, and laborers would have been brought from all over the region. Like in Egypt cities would have sprung up at the ark's building site to house and provide for the living needs of the workers, who would be on the job for decades, as well as perhaps their children. Of course the bible doesn't tells us all this. We have to fill in the blanks with reasonable assumptions. If we don't do this we (you) cannot understand anything fully.
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