Did you really choose God…

[jayem]

or did God choose you? I’ve read a lot of posts where believers say they became Christians after having a life-changing spiritual experience of some sort. If that’s true, then becoming a Christian wasn’t really your choice. It was an act of God. By logical extension, it raises the question does anyone make a free-will decision to be a Christian? If you were born into a Christian family, raised in the church, and have been a believer your entire life, then that was also an act of God. The same would be true if you were a Christian at one time, and now have a different faith, or have become an atheist. If a deity exists, who is the ultimate universal sovereign with a plan for everyone and everything, then logically, no one’s belief—or lack thereof—is her/his own decision. It’s all God’s will.

 

[Lukaris]

I believe it is ultimately the will of God and within His will, we have a capacity to exercise free will. How can we ultimately comprehend a Creator Who has always been?

 

[Trusting in Him]

I turned to God, as a result of a crisis in my life. I really was desparate at the time.

 

[Neogaia777]

or did God choose you? I’ve read a lot of posts where believers say they became Christians after having a life-changing spiritual experience of some sort. If that’s true, then becoming a Christian wasn’t really your choice. It was an act of God. By logical extension, it raises the question does anyone make a free-will decision to be a Christian? If you were born into a Christian family, raised in the church, and have been a believer your entire life, then that was also an act of God. The same would be true if you were a Christian at one time, and now have a different faith, or have become an atheist. If a deity exists, who is the ultimate universal sovereign with a plan for everyone and everything, then logically, no one’s belief—or lack thereof—is her/his own decision. It’s all God’s will.

Yep, I think you got that about right, and your point is...?

Let me see if I can follow for a minute, you probably want to know how God can condemn anyone either way, right...?

Well, some are meant for one thing, and others are only meant for another, and this is all we are, etc...

So, got any other questions maybe, etc...?

God Bless!

 

[Neogaia777]

And I'd like to point out that the same is also true for those who maybe were never raised in a Christian home, or had a Christian past or upbringing, and were never taught it, etc, but who also chose God, or, forgive me, God chose them I mean, etc...

Semantics, etc...

God Bless!

 

[Neogaia777]

And I'd like to point out that the same is also true for those who maybe were never raised in a Christian home, or had a Christian past or upbringing, and were never taught it, etc, but who also chose God, or, forgive me, God chose them I mean, etc...

Semantics, etc...

God Bless!

Or any other amount of innumerable specific examples, etc, but God chose them, or else didn't choose them, etc...

What's your point, etc...?

God Bless!

 

[Rachel20]

All I personally see in scripture is free choice, below are just a few examples.

Deut 30:9 -

I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live:


Joshua 24:15 -

And if it seem evil unto you to serve the LORD, choose you this day whom ye will serve; whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the flood, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land ye dwell: but as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD.


Prov 1:22-32 -

How long, ye simple ones, will ye love simplicity? and the scorners delight in their scorning, and fools hate knowledge?

Turn you at my reproof: behold, I will pour out my spirit unto you, I will make known my words unto you.

Because I have called, and ye refused; I have stretched out my hand, and no man regarded;

But ye have set at nought all my counsel, and would none of my reproof:

I also will laugh at your calamity; I will mock when your fear cometh;

When your fear cometh as desolation, and your destruction cometh as a whirlwind; when distress and anguish cometh upon you.

Then shall they call upon me, but I will not answer; they shall seek me early, but they shall not find me:

For that they hated knowledge, and did not choose the fear of the LORD:

They would none of my counsel: they despised all my reproof.

Therefore shall they eat of the fruit of their own way, and be filled with their own devices.

For the turning away of the simple shall slay them, and the prosperity of fools shall destroy them.

Isa 1:18 -

Come now, and let us reason together, saith the LORD: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool.


John 3:16

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

 

[Trusting in Him]

I think that I turned to God as a result of an old lady praying for me, she never met my youngest brother, but all of my other siblings which she did met have all turned to the Lord. My youngest brother has never turned to the Lord in fact he is very anti God. Of course, I've no way of knowing this for sure, but have a persuasion that this is true, why I feel this I don't know!

 

[Rachel20]

That's not to say that the Lord doesn't choose the timing of his calling us, but that when called, we have the choice to answer or not.

 

[Neogaia777]

Maybe this will help, I responded to a post on Facebook that said this the other day...

I'm the beginning, the end of time and space,
the beginning of every end, and the end of every place.
Who am I?

And I left two replies...

First one:

There is no such place, all just begins and/or starts all over again always, etc, but you will either start all over again here, repeating these exact same existences over and over again for all eternity, but with no conscious memory of it each time, or you will continue on elsewhere, and you'll always be you always, for that is the family you will belong to, forever joined to or with all those who came before you, and will be or will come after you, if you don't just get more of just only here for an eternity that is...

God Bless!

Second one:

Sorry I read the question wrong, but you guys can have what I said anyway, but the answer to your question is "God", etc, of the ones who do have a beginning or end, and then a new beginning again, etc, and are the first and the last of all the new beginnings and/or new endings of all things, etc, you are specifically God the Son and God the Spirit, but of Him that does not have a beginning or ending at all ever, and never has ever, you are God the Father specifically, etc...

But of course none of this applies for those who have already gone on to be with God the Father, where He is, etc, but only that new members of their families will join them in time, etc...

God Bless!

 

[Trusting in Him]

That's not to say that the Lord doesn't choose the timing of his calling us, but that when called, we have the choice to answer or not.

Yes that's true, but maybe that timing is everything. His timing may be such that the outcome is already assured! O.K. it can still be our free will, but our free will was affected by His timing and our circumstances at that time. Either way all the glory has to go to Him. Every sinner who turns to Him is a miracle of Gods grace and salvation!

 

[Rachel20]

I turned to God, as a result of a crisis in my life. I really was desparate at the time.

This reminded me of Psa 107 that says he brings the storm so that we turn to him, then he brings us to our desired safe haven. And whoever is wise and observes it, will understand his lovingkindness (v43).

 

[Neogaia777]

Maybe this will help, I responded to a post on Facebook that said this the other day...

I'm the beginning, the end of time and space,
the beginning of every end, and the end of every place.
Who am I?

And I left two replies...

First one:

There is no such place, all just begins and/or starts all over again always, etc, but you will either start all over again here, repeating these exact same existences over and over again for all eternity, but with no conscious memory of it each time, or you will continue on elsewhere, and you'll always be you always, for that is the family you will belong to, forever joined to or with all those who came before you, and will be or will come after you, if you don't just get more of just only here for an eternity that is...

God Bless!

Second one:

Sorry I read the question wrong, but you guys can have what I said anyway, but the answer to your question is "God", etc, of the ones who do have a beginning or end, and then a new beginning again, etc, and are the first and the last of all the new beginnings and/or new endings of all things, etc, you are specifically God the Son and God the Spirit, but of Him that does not have a beginning or ending at all ever, and never has ever, you are God the Father specifically, etc...

But of course none of this applies for those who have already gone on to be with God the Father, where He is, etc, but only that new members of their families will join them in time, etc...

God Bless!

And maybe I should add that the purpose for the ones who only get to just only repeat only more of this here, is to grow the ones who do make it beyond just only more of this here also, etc...

So you'll know the "why of why they both had to/have to be here", or both had to both at first be here, etc...

God Bless!

 

[Trusting in Him]

How did we know to turn to Him? Which ever way that you look at it He was there! It's very hard to deny this!

 

[Sketcher]

or did God choose you? I’ve read a lot of posts where believers say they became Christians after having a life-changing spiritual experience of some sort. If that’s true, then becoming a Christian wasn’t really your choice. It was an act of God. By logical extension, it raises the question does anyone make a free-will decision to be a Christian? If you were born into a Christian family, raised in the church, and have been a believer your entire life, then that was also an act of God. The same would be true if you were a Christian at one time, and now have a different faith, or have become an atheist. If a deity exists, who is the ultimate universal sovereign with a plan for everyone and everything, then logically, no one’s belief—or lack thereof—is her/his own decision. It’s all God’s will.

There's a level of predestination in Scripture, but there's also a level of responsibility and choice. Humans aren't necessarily clever enough to clearly parse out the demarcation line, nor do I believe we need to be. What matters is that we're on the right side - God's - in the end.

 

[trophy33]

If you will put a bottle of fresh water in the place in the desert when you know a thirsty person will come, then you can predestine the outcome while his freedom of choice stays in play.

So its both God and man. The predestination of God and the choice of man.

 

[friend of]

Spurgeon said " I am sure He chose me from the foundation of the world, for He would have never chosen me afterwards"

 

[SeventhFisherofMen]

or did God choose you? I’ve read a lot of posts where believers say they became Christians after having a life-changing spiritual experience of some sort. If that’s true, then becoming a Christian wasn’t really your choice. It was an act of God. By logical extension, it raises the question does anyone make a free-will decision to be a Christian? If you were born into a Christian family, raised in the church, and have been a believer your entire life, then that was also an act of God. The same would be true if you were a Christian at one time, and now have a different faith, or have become an atheist. If a deity exists, who is the ultimate universal sovereign with a plan for everyone and everything, then logically, no one’s belief—or lack thereof—is her/his own decision. It’s all God’s will.

If you use that line of thinking there are many acts of God in everyone's life, and if you remember the verse that says "He is not slow as others consider slowness, but patient not wanting anyone to perish."

God wants everyone to know Him and not perish, an since God is always acting in people lives whether they acknowledge it or just call it luck then you can say we still have a say in whether or not we decide to become Christians and when. I'm sure most Christians can look back and say they've had times before they were a Christian that God had a Hand in their life, and they had free will to choose Jesus then as well.

So in short Free Will is still a concept that applies to everyone and everyone uses it all the time.

 

[Rachel20]

The order of being chosen is noteworthy since it follows being called. I've personally come to believe the chosen are those who answer the call.

For many are called, but few are chosen. Matt 22:14

These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them: for he is Lord of lords, and King of kings: and they that are with him are called, and chosen, and faithful. Rev 17:14

 

[jayem]

Yep, I think you got that about right, and your point is...?

Let me see if I can follow for a minute, you probably want to know how God can condemn anyone either way, right...?

Well, some are meant for one thing, and others are only meant for another, and this is all we are, etc...

So, got any other questions maybe, etc...?

God Bless!

My point is to demonstrate a logical contradiction. Does God have a sovereign plan for the universe? If so, wouldn’t that plan include who is a believer and who is not? Which means our name is either already on God’s guest list for the big eternal banquet, or it’s not. Who’s invited is part of the host’s plan. We might think we can choose to invite ourselves, because the invitations go out in so many unexpected ways and times. But if the host truly has absolute sovereignty over the attendance, then we have no choice in the matter. And it’s illogical to think that we do.