Did Yahshua Rise on the 7th Day Shabbat...

HARK! · Jan 19, 2022

Yeshua HaDerekh said:
Many Fathers were at Nicea and they all agreed regarding it...go read about it!

Back peddling and telling me to go read a book doesn't make a very convincing argument for your absolute assertion. I'll file that under improbable.

Yeshua HaDerekh · Jan 19, 2022

HARK! said:
I could explain away all the words of scripture by declaring them to be idioms.

Here is what I have:

τριτην ταυτην ημεραν αγει αφ ου ταυτα εγενετο
third this DAY it-IS-LEADING FROM WHICH these BECAME

Let's count this out.

Let's start with today.

Today is Wednesday
One day from now will be Thursday.
Two days from now will be Friday.
Three Days from now will be σαββατου.

You are doing it backwards. It is inclusive reckoning...Sunday day 3, Sabbath day 2 and Friday, the day the events occured.

Yeshua HaDerekh · Jan 19, 2022

HARK! said:
Back peddling and telling me to go read a book doesn't make a very convincing argument for your absolute assertion. I'll file that under improbable.

the date of Pascha (SUNDAY) was reckoned at the Council. no backpeddling. You can file it any way you want...

daq · Jan 19, 2022

Yeshua HaDerekh said:
1st of the week or day 1 was still Sunday...

I think I understand better now. You are arguing for Sunday because of the thread title. Well, just so you know, I didn't enter the thread arguing anything. I simply tried to throw in a few more passage statements, (phrases), that I believe to be relevant to the arguments of all sides involved.

HARK! · Jan 19, 2022

Yeshua HaDerekh said:
the date of Pascha (SUNDAY) was reckoned at the Council. no backpeddling. You can file it any way you want...

Council? What council? I don't subscribe to the fallacies argumentum ad populum, nor argumentum ab auctoritate. I prefer scripture and logic.

Humble Penny · Jan 19, 2022

HARK! said:
Did Yahshua Rise on the 7th Day Shabbat...

...or could it have been another day of rest?

(CLV) Mk 16:9
Now, rising in the morning in the first (πρωτη) sabbath (σαββατου), He appeared first to Mary Magdalene, from whom He had cast out seven demons.

I remember when I first talked about this with you and visionary in a thread I created:

"First day of the Week" is actually Sabbaton (Introduction)

I gave a pretty lengthy explanation for my claim when you asked me. But to sum it up I made the following points:

Based on the timing of the events in the Gospels it is clear that Yeshua died on Passover/1st Day of Unleavened Bread.
When laying out the calendrical schema from Genesis 1:1-2:3 it becomes clear that Yeshua died on the 3rd Day (e.g. Tuesday) in 14th Day of the 1st Month.
I then quoted Jubilees, the Gospel of Nicodemus, and the 1st Book of Adam and Eve Chapter 3, to show that Christ was prophesied to die 5,500 Years after the creation of the world (i.e. -5470 [LXX]); would rise from the dead after 3 Days and 3 Nights just as Adam was created 3 Days and 3 Nights from the 3rd Day (e.g. Tuesday) when God created all the plant life and called the dry land earth. And that the Hebrew phrase between the evenings--which the English translators tried to retain with the word twilight--was a very specific time of the day in which the lambs were to be killed. Namely the third part of the day, which would be the 7th-9th Hour (because 12 Hours ÷ 4 Quarters = 3 Hours per Quarter).
I then conclude by stating that based on the exact timing of these events and their alignment with biblical prophecy that Messiah rose from the dead on Friday, the 3rd Day from Tuesday.

In a follow up post of the aforementioned thread I concluded, as you did in your OP here, that there had to be an error in the translation. And after analyzing the Greek carefully I found as you have clearly shown that the phrase, first day of the week, was nothing more than an interpolation.

There were some other very technical points I made but, the bullet points above give the overview of what my theory "view" consisted of. Thanks for considering me, along with the rest, as an objective thinker.

It is very difficult to discuss these finer points with those who haven't been initiated by YHWH our Father to leave the entrance of the Tabernacle and be allowed to enter the mysteries within the Inner Court of the Tabernacle, and then the Holy Place, and finally be able to have the Mysteries revealed to us by Yeshua our High Priest who is able to go in and out of the Holy of Holies.

HARK! · Jan 19, 2022

Yeshua HaDerekh said:
You are doing it backwards..

I could say the same thing about you. That won't get us anywhere. Can you present a logical argument? We're all intelligent learned people here. If we work together; we can help each other to find a lot of truth that we might find difficult to find as individuals.

Yeshua HaDerekh · Jan 19, 2022

HARK! said:
Council? What council? I don't subscribe to the fallacies argumentum ad populum, nor argumentum ab auctoritate. I prefer scripture and logic.

uh huh. So why did you ask about church fathers then? Church fathers were at the church council...it is part of history...it is a historical fact...

Yeshua HaDerekh · Jan 19, 2022

HARK! said:
I could say the same thing about you. That won't get us anywhere. Can you present a logical argument? We're all intelligent learned people here. If we work together; we can help each other to find a lot of truth that we might find difficult to find as individuals.

You do not want the truth...you want to be right and argue even when you are wrong. They said TODAY is now the 3rd day SINCE the events occured. That day was the 1st day of the week in context with the scripture that came before it. it is therefore logical to count back from there. It is inclusive reckoning.

HARK! · Jan 19, 2022

Humble Penny said:
When laying out the calendrical schema from Genesis 1:1-2:3 it becomes clear that Yeshua died on the 3rd Day (e.g. Tuesday) in 14th Day of the 1st Month.

Hi Humble Penny,

Welcome!

With all of the research that you have been doing regarding calendars and dates, I was really looking forward to having you join us here.

Thank you.

I was recently given this information:

27 AD the 14th fell on a Thursday.
28 AD the 14th fell on a Tuesday
29 AD the 14th fell on a Monday
30 AD the 14th fell on a Friday
31 AD the 14th fell on a Tuesday
32 AD the 14th fell on a Monday
33 AD the 14th fell on a Friday
34 AD the 14th fell on a Wednesday

Passover For Christians

Here are the sources that he gave me for that:

Hebrew Date Converter - 15th of Nisan, 5746 | Hebcal Jewish Calendar
April 2020 Calendar – Israel

What do you make of this?

Humble Penny · Jan 19, 2022

HARK! said:
Hi Humble Penny,

Welcome!

With all of the research that you have been doing regarding calendars and dates, I was really looking forward to having you join us here.

Thank you.

I was recently given this information:

27 AD the 14th fell on a Thursday.
28 AD the 14th fell on a Tuesday
29 AD the 14th fell on a Monday
30 AD the 14th fell on a Friday
31 AD the 14th fell on a Tuesday
32 AD the 14th fell on a Monday
33 AD the 14th fell on a Friday
34 AD the 14th fell on a Wednesday

Passover For Christians

Here are the sources that he gave me for that:

Hebrew Date Converter - 15th of Nisan, 5746 | Hebcal Jewish Calendar
April 2020 Calendar – Israel

What do you make of this?

Thanks again HARK! I'm glad to contribute my knowledge on this subject. Right off the bat I can tell he's close but still off the mark.

What Calendar System Does the Bible Use?
It must be rightly understood that none of our man-made calendars are useful past the date of their creation: therefore the Gregorian Calendar is unusable for all dates before 1582 AD; and in like manner the Julian Calendar is unusable for all dates before -45 BC; the same can be applied for the modern Hebrew/Jewish Calendar.

That said we must seriously ask ourselves, what calendar system is actually being presented in the Bible? An objective view would show that it is a solar calendar which begins in the spring and consists of a base year of 360 Days with 4 Intercalary Days inserted at the head of each season/quarter. We know it cannot be lunar or astral as God began His work in the light of Day and not the darkness of Night, and all forms of lunar calendars are well known to not keep the year reliably. With that said people can use any type of calendar converter they want, and they will always get the "correct date" according to that calendar system, but when placed against the Law and the Prophets they fall short.

When was Yeshua Born?
This brings us to our dating system which is heavily misunderstood and leads people to have dates all over the place, especially as it regards the death of Yeshua. Setting aside arguments for the true date of creation I have found that whether one uses the Septuagint, Masoretic Text, or rabbinic date for creation: Yeshua cannot be born on any date before 0 BC/1 AD, nor can He die at any date after 30 AD. This is because common sense would dictate that all dates from -1 BC and earlier tell us how many years there will be before Yeshua is born, really this is like counting down from 10 Seconds to 0 Seconds. Why people continue to throw out common sense when counting down the years leading to Yeshua's birth is puzzling to me. Ancient historians tell us that Yeshua was born in the 42nd Year of Augustus Caesar which corresponds to the 33rd Year of Herod the Great in the 2nd Year of the 195th Olympiad, this is 42 Years after Augustus came into power in the 184th Olympiad.

When did Yeshua Die?
As to His death this is easy to verify when we look at the reigns reported by ancient historians who tell us that Yeshua died in the 202nd Olympiad. Sadly these ancient dating systems are largely overlooked by many scholars and believers because we wrongly believe that everyone just used the Anno Domini system, but this is far from the truth for it wasn't created until 525 AD: which is 525 Years after Christ was born. So, to figure out the age Christ died we must simply calculate the years in between the date of His birth and death:

42nd Year of Augustus to Christ's Death
202 Olympiads
194.5 Olympiads
7.5 Olympiads

7.5 Olympiads × 4 Years = 30 Years

...and to be absolutely sure these numbers are correct we must know the number of years which Augustus and Tiberius reigned...

1st Year of Augustus to 15th Year of Tiberius
202 Olympiads
184 Olympiads
18 Olympiads

18 Olympiads × 4 Years = 72 Years

While the historical records differ slightly by a few months to a year on the total length of Augustus' reign: they all agree on which Olympiad he came into power and, the Olympiad in which Christ died during the reign of Tiberius. These numbers tell us that Augustus Caesar ruled for 57 Years, and that Christ died in His 30th Year in the 15th Year of Tiberius. This aligns perfectly with what we read in Luke 2 & 3 and Matthew 2.

Conclusion
After aligning the biblical narrative and chronology with ancient historical sources it is clear that Yeshua died at 30 Years old in the spring during the 15th Year of Tiberius Caesar at the close of the 202nd Olympiad. This corresponds to our Anno Domini year 30 AD.

Humble Penny · Jan 19, 2022

HARK! said:
Hi Humble Penny,

Welcome!

With all of the research that you have been doing regarding calendars and dates, I was really looking forward to having you join us here.

Thank you.

I was recently given this information:

27 AD the 14th fell on a Thursday.
28 AD the 14th fell on a Tuesday
29 AD the 14th fell on a Monday
30 AD the 14th fell on a Friday
31 AD the 14th fell on a Tuesday
32 AD the 14th fell on a Monday
33 AD the 14th fell on a Friday
34 AD the 14th fell on a Wednesday

Passover For Christians

Here are the sources that he gave me for that:

Hebrew Date Converter - 15th of Nisan, 5746 | Hebcal Jewish Calendar
April 2020 Calendar – Israel

What do you make of this?

Humble Penny said:
Thanks again HARK! I'm glad to contribute my knowledge on this subject. Right off the bat I can tell he's close but still off the mark.

What Calendar System Does the Bible Use?
It must be rightly understood that none of our man-made calendars are useful past the date of their creation: therefore the Gregorian Calendar is unusable for all dates before 1582 AD; and in like manner the Julian Calendar is unusable for all dates before -45 BC; the same can be applied for the modern Hebrew/Jewish Calendar.

That said we must seriously ask ourselves, what calendar system is actually being presented in the Bible? An objective view would show that it is a solar calendar which begins in the spring and consists of a base year of 360 Days with 4 Intercalary Days inserted at the head of each season/quarter. We know it cannot be lunar or astral as God began His work in the light of Day and not the darkness of Night, and all forms of lunar calendars are well known to not keep the year reliably. With that said people can use any type of calendar converter they want, and they will always get the "correct date" according to that calendar system, but when placed against the Law and the Prophets they fall short.

When was Yeshua Born?
This brings us to our dating system which is heavily misunderstood and leads people to have dates all over the place, especially as it regards the death of Yeshua. Setting aside arguments for the true date of creation I have found that whether one uses the Septuagint, Masoretic Text, or rabbinic date for creation: Yeshua cannot be born on any date before 0 BC/ 1 AD, nor can He die at any date after 30 AD. This is because common sense would dictate that all dates from -1 BC and earlier tell us how many years there will be before Yeshua is born, really this is like counting down from 10 Seconds to 0 Seconds. Why people continue to throw out common sense when counting down the years leading to Yeshua's birth is puzzling to me. Ancient historians tell us that Yeshua was born in the 42nd Year of Augustus Caesar which corresponds to the 33rd Year of Herod the Great in the 2nd Year of the 195th Olympiad, this is 42 Years after Augustus came into power in the 184th Olympiad.

When did Yeshua Die?
As to His death this is easy to verify when we look at the reigns reported by ancient historians who tell us that Yeshua died in the 202nd Olympiad. Sadly these ancient dating systems are largely overlooked by many scholars and believers because we wrongly believe that everyone just used the Anno Domini system, but this is far from the truth for it wasn't created until 525 AD: which is 525 Years after Christ was born. So, to figure out the age Christ died we must simply calculate the years in between the date of His birth and death:

42nd Year of Augustus to Christ's Death
202 Olympiads
194.5 Olympiads
7.5 Olympiads

7.5 Olympiads × 4 Years = 30 Years

...and to be absolutely sure these numbers are correct we must know the number of years which Augustus and Tiberius reigned...

1st Year of Augustus to 15th Year of Tiberius
202 Olympiads
184 Olympiads
18 Olympiads

18 Olympiads × 4 Years = 72 Years

While the historical record differ slightly by a few months to a year on the total length of Augustus' reign: they all agree on which Olympiad he came into power and, the Olympiad in which Christ died during the reign of Tiberius. These numbers tell us that Augustus Caesar ruled for 57 Years, and that Christ died in His 30th Year in the 15th Year of Tiberius. This aligns perfectly with what we read in Luke 2 & 3 and Matthew 2.

Conclusion
After aligning the biblical narrative and chronology with ancient historical sources it is clear that Yeshua died at 30 Years old in the spring during the 15th Year of Tiberius Caesar at the close of the 202nd Olympiad. This corresponds to our Anno Domini year 30 AD.

Some important details I forgot to add in post #31 is that the ancient Roman Calendar began in the spring in the month of March. The Roman new year wouldn't begin in January until c.-153 BC, though it seems that many still observed the new year in March as it aligned with the seasons while January was simply kept for civil and administrative purposes. The exact reasons for the change are still unclear to me.

So if you count back in time properly then naturally one will go from the Gregorian Calendar in 1582 AD to the Julian Calendar which according to what I've been able to find lands you on the 11th of the Kalends of April which is Tuesday March 22nd. This is how it was properly calculated according to Theophilus of Caesarea, but later during the times of Bede the Catholic church had already adopted the teaching of the Friday crucifixion and Sunday resurrection which they placed on the 8th of the Kalends of April which is Friday March 25th. The ancient Romans divided their months into three distinct periods:

Kalends = 1st Day of the Month
Nones = 5th or 7th Day of the Month which is either 8 or 9 Days before the Ides.
Ides = 13th or 15th Day of the Month which means you will have either 20 or 18 Days before the Kalends.

Seeing that March has always consisted of 31 Days we may align it according to the biblical calendar which begins in the spring (from Hebrew Abib) 1 Day after the vernal/spring equinox. This will naturally cause the Roman calendar to begin around mid-March and observed through part of April:

1st Month/March-April
01 02 03 04 05 06 07
_________09 10 11 12 (Abib 1)
13 14 15 16 17 18 19
20 21 22 23 24 25 26 (Abib 14)
27 28 29 30 31 01 02 (Abib 21)
03 04 05 06 07______ (Wave Offering)

March (Normal Roman Month)
01 02 03 04 05 06 07
______01 02 03 04 05 (Spring Equinox)
06 07 08 09 10 11 12
13 14 15 16 17 18 19
20 21 22 23 24 25 26 (11th, 8th Kalends of April)
27 28 29 30 31 01___ (Kalends of April)

March (Original Roman Layout)
1 Kalends
2 IV Days before Nones
3 III Days before Nones
4 Pridie Nones
5 Nones
6 VIII Days before Ides
7 VII Days before Ides
8 VI Days before Ides
9 V Days before Ides
10 IV Days before Ides
11 III Days before Ides
12 Pridie Ides
13 Ides
14 XIX Days before Kalends
15 XVIII Days before Kalends
16 XVII Days before Kalends
17 XVI Days before Kalends
18 XV Days before Kalends
19 XIV Days before Kalends
20 XIII Days before Kalends
21 XII Days before Kalends
22 XI Days before Kalends
23 X Days before Kalends
24 IX Days before Kalends
25 VIII Days before Kalends
26 VII Days before Kalends
27 VI Days before Kalends
28 V Days before Kalends
29 IV Days before Kalends
30 III Days before Kalends
31 Pridie Kalends

April (Original Roman Layout)
1 Kalends

As you can see from the evidence this would align with the words of Seutonius in his book De Vita Caesarum or Lives of Caesars, where he informs us that Julius Caesar reformed the calendar so that it began in the spring and aligned with the vernal equinox after seeing that the then Roman Lunar calendar, used since the time of Romulus, was throwing off their observations of the new year and other important dates.

eleos1954 · Jan 19, 2022

HARK! said:
Here is some information that I pulled from a thread that I created in 2020:

Bikkurim at the center of Hag Matzot

Let's look at Pesach and Hag Matzot first.

(CLV) Lv 23:5
In the first month ion the fourteenth day of the month between the evening hours is the passover to Yahweh.

Yahshua died on the torture stake on Pesach

(CLV) Lv 23:6
And on the fifteenth day of this month is the festival of unleavened bread to Yahweh. Seven days shall you eat unleavened bread.

The fifteenth day is when Yahshua was in the grave. for the first night.

(CLV) Lv 23:8
And you will bring near a fire offering to Yahweh seven days. On the seventh day is a holy meeting, when you shall do not occupational work at all.

(CLV) Ex 12:18
In the first month on the fourteenth day of the month, in the evening, you shall eat unleavened bread until day twenty one of the month, in the evening.

Mag Matzot begins at sundown on the transition from the 14th to the 15th.

14 day (Yahshua in the grave) 15 night/day 16 night/day 17 night/day 18, 19, 20, 21 = 7 days

(CLV) Lv 23:7
On the first day you shall come to ›have a holy meeting, when you shall do no occupational work at all.

The first day, the 15th of Hag Matzot is a Shabbat.

14 day (Yahshua in the grave) 15 (Shabbat) night/day 16 night/day 17 night/day 18, 19, 20, 21 = 7 days

(CLV) Lv 23:10
Speak to the sons of Israel, and you will say to them, When you come into the land which I am giving to you and reap its harvest, you will bring a sheaf of the firstfruit of your harvest to the priest.

Bikkurim

(CLV) Lv 23:11
He will wave »the sheaf before Yahweh for acceptance on your behalf. From the morrow of the sabbath the priest shall wave it.

Bikkurim begins on the evening after the first Shabbat after the 15th

(CLV) Jn 20:1
Now, on one of the sabbaths, Miriam Magdalene is coming to the tomb in the morning, there being still darkness, and is observing the stone taken away from the door of the tomb.

Yahshua rose during the night, on the first Shabbat after the 15th.

14 day (Yahshua in the grave) 15 (Shabbat) night/day 16 night/day 17 (Shabbat) night/Yahshua rose/day 18, (Bikkurim) 19, 20, 21 (Shabbat)= 7 days

15 (Shabbat) night/day 16 night/day 17 (Shabbat) night/Yahshua rose/day
18, (Bikkurim)
19, 20, 21 (Shabbat)

It would put Yahshua in the grave before sundown on Wednesday.

Go do some research on Jewish inclusive reckoning .... and then there is sense made about the matter. Inclusive reckoning is not a 24-hour period.

Humble Penny · Jan 19, 2022

eleos1954 said:
Go do some research on Jewish inclusive reckoning .... and then there is sense made about the matter. Inclusive reckoning is not a 24-hour period.

True enough but you still don't get 3 Days and 3 Nights:

1st Month of Abib
14th - Friday
(1 Day & 1 Night)

15th - Saturday
(2 Days & 2 Nights)

16th - Sunday
(3 Days & 2 Nights)

What did Christ say?

"for just as Jonah was 3 days and 3 nights in the belly of the sea monster, so will the Son of Man be 3 days and 3 nights in the heart of the earth."
Matthew 12:40 NASB1995

And what does the prophet Jonah tell us?

"And the Lord appointed a great fish to swallow Jonah, and Jonah was in the stomach of the fish 3 days and 3 nights."
Jonah 1:17 NASB1995

Where is your third night at? The Friday Crucifixion got the 3rd Day message right from the mouth of our Lord Yeshua, but it seems they somehow missed the 3rd Night as well. And you are right that a full 24 Hour period was counted because our Lord's clear words said only 3 Days and 3 Nights: He did not mention that they had to be full days and nights, and the story of Jonah supports this; and the story of Noah supports this as well for the beginning of the 40 Days and 40 Nights of the Flood seems to have begun late in the day; the fast of Moses seems to indicate that he didn't begun his fast exactly at the beginning of the day but later in the day shortly after the Golden Calf incident.

Torah Keeper · Jan 19, 2022

Thanks for the invite.

(CLV) Jn 20:1
Now, on one of the sabbaths, Miriam Magdalene is coming to the tomb in the morning, there being still darkness, and is observing the stone taken away from the door of the tomb.

Well to be blunt, that's some funny translation right there. We know the women rested on Shabbat according to the commandment as we read earlier. So they weren't arriving "on one of the sabbaths", whatever that means. And if it was morning, it would be after sunrise.

Now, Yeshua could have risen during the night. But that would be the first evening of the week. And it would be after Shabbat.

My reckoning is:

Thursday-Yeshua crucified and placed in the tomb.
Friday-Matsa 1. Day of rest.
Shabbat-Day of complete rest.
Sunday-Yeshua rose either in the evening or right about dawn.

With this scenario we get part of Thursday, all of Friday, all of Shabbat, and the evening of Sunday. That gives parts of 4 days, but only about 61 hours or so total. This gives parts of 3 days, and almost 3 full nights if He rose before sunrise. Any way you add it up, it is hard to get exactly 72 hours for 3 days and nights. To get exactly 72 hours, Yeshua would have to rise late afternoon on Sunday, which didn't happen.

Humble Penny, putting the crucifixion on a Tuesday or Wednesday raises it's own set of problems. To start, the women would have gone to the tomb on a Thursday or Friday, and not waited until Sunday.

And I am convinced Firstfruits must always be on a Sunday. There is no other way to count to Penetecost and have it be on a Sunday unless Firstfruits is on a Sunday. Hence the verse about Pentecost being the morrow after the 7th Sabbath.

Torah Keeper · Jan 19, 2022

Humble Penny said:
That said we must seriously ask ourselves, what calendar system is actually being presented in the Bible? An objective view would show that it is a solar calendar which begins in the spring and consists of a base year of 360 Days with 4 Intercalary Days inserted at the head of each season/quarter. We know it cannot be lunar or astral as God began His work in the light of Day and not the darkness of Night, and all forms of lunar calendars are well known to not keep the year reliably. With that said people can use any type of calendar converter they want, and they will always get the "correct date" according to that calendar system, but when placed against the Law and the Prophets they fall short.

I looked into this solar-only calendar you mention, but I noticed it has some major problems. I would rather leave that topic for another thread.

Yeshua HaDerekh · Jan 19, 2022

Humble Penny said:
True enough but you still don't get 3 Days and 3 Nights:

1st Month of Abib
14th - Friday
(1 Day & 1 Night)

15th - Saturday
(2 Days & 2 Nights)

16th - Sunday
(3 Days & 2 Nights)

What did Christ say?

"for just as Jonah was 3 days and 3 nights in the belly of the sea monster, so will the Son of Man be 3 days and 3 nights in the heart of the earth."
Matthew 12:40 NASB1995

And what does the prophet Jonah tell us?

"And the Lord appointed a great fish to swallow Jonah, and Jonah was in the stomach of the fish 3 days and 3 nights."
Jonah 1:17 NASB1995

Where is your third night at? The Friday Crucifixion got the 3rd Day message right from the mouth of our Lord Yeshua, but it seems they somehow missed the 3rd Night as well. And you are right that a full 24 Hour period was counted because our Lord's clear words said only 3 Days and 3 Nights: He did not mention that they had to be full days and nights, and the story of Jonah supports this; and the story of Noah supports this as well for the beginning of the 40 Days and 40 Nights of the Flood seems to have begun late in the day; the fast of Moses seemsindicate that he didn't begun his fast exactly at the beginning of the day but later in the day shortly after the Golden Calf incident.

It is a Jewish idiom. A typological metaphor. Synecdoche. Yeshua also said "on the 3rd day". The eyewitnesses on the road to Emmaus prove the 3 day timeline. Inclusive counting was employed. " R. Eliezar Ben Azariah said, A day and a night make an Onah, and a part of an Onah is as the whole". "Part of an onah is as the whole" - R. Ishmael

Humble Penny · Jan 19, 2022

Humble Penny said:
True enough but you still don't get 3 Days and 3 Nights:

1st Month of Abib
14th - Friday
(1 Day & 1 Night)

15th - Saturday
(2 Days & 2 Nights)

16th - Sunday
(3 Days & 2 Nights)

What did Christ say?

"for just as Jonah was 3 days and 3 nights in the belly of the sea monster, so will the Son of Man be 3 days and 3 nights in the heart of the earth."
Matthew 12:40 NASB1995

And what does the prophet Jonah tell us?

"And the Lord appointed a great fish to swallow Jonah, and Jonah was in the stomach of the fish 3 days and 3 nights."
Jonah 1:17 NASB1995

Where is your third night at? The Friday Crucifixion got the 3rd Day message right from the mouth of our Lord Yeshua, but it seems they somehow missed the 3rd Night as well. And you are right that a full 24 Hour period was counted because our Lord's clear words said only 3 Days and 3 Nights: He did not mention that they had to be full days and nights, and the story of Jonah supports this; and the story of Noah supports this as well for the beginning of the 40 Days and 40 Nights of the Flood seems to have begun late in the day; the fast of Moses seems to indicate that he didn't begun his fast exactly at the beginning of the day but later in the day shortly after the Golden Calf incident.

There are some key words we miss from our Lord, and these words help us prove that He didn't count the first day He was buried:

“Behold, we are going up to Jerusalem; and the Son of Man will be delivered to the chief priests and scribes, and they will condemn Him to death, and will hand Him over to the Gentiles to mock and scourge and crucify Him, and on the third day He will be raised up.”
Matthew 20:18‭-‬19 NASB1995 (emphasis added mine)

"He is not here, but He has risen. Remember how He spoke to you while He was still in Galilee, saying that the Son of Man must be delivered into the hands of sinful men, and be crucified, and the third day rise again.”
Luke 24:6‭-‬7 NASB1995 (emphasis added mine)

"But we were hoping that it was He who was going to redeem Israel. Indeed, besides all this, it is the third day since these things happened."
Luke 24:21 NASB1995 (emphasis added mine)

"and said, “Sir, we remember that when He was still alive that deceiver said, ‘After three days I am to rise again.’ Therefore, give orders for the grave to be made secure until the third day, otherwise His disciples may come and steal Him away and say to the people, ‘He has risen from the dead,’ and the last deception will be worse than the first.”
Matthew 27:63‭-‬64 NASB1995 (emphasis added mine)

Notice the emphasis on everything being accomplished on the 3rd Day, the opponents and disciples of Christ clearly understood the true meaning of our Lord's words and how the count was to go for the days. I will deomnstrate that according to this understnading that Yeshua didn't count the first day He was buried as it was towards the evening, therefore the only logical conclusion would be that He counted the morning and noon periods as "1 Day"...and really when you ponder this it makes sense as God begins the day in the morning when He said, "Let there be light." so it would only be logical that this same method of counting was being used. This means we have four competing burial doctrines:

The Tuesday, Wednesday, and Thursday burial doctines complete the 3 Days and 3 Nights with Yeshua rising from the dead on either Friday, Saturday, or Sunday after 3 Days and 3 Nights. And to remain objective I will show with this correct count that the Friday burial leads to a Monday resurrection...

Tuesday Burial and Friday Resurrection

14th - Tuesday
0 Days & 1 Night
15th - Wednesday
1 Days & 2 Nights
16th - Thursday
2 Days & 3 Nights
17th - Friday
3 Days 3 Nights

Wednesday Burial and Saturday Resurrection

14th - Wednesday
0 Days & 1 Night
15th - Thursday
1 Days & 2 Nights
16th - Friday
2 Days & 3 Nights
17th - Saturday
3 Days 3 Nights

Thursday Burial and Sunday Resurrection

14th - Thursday
0 Days & 1 Night
15th - Friday
1 Days & 2 Nights
16th - Saturday
2 Days & 3 Nights
17th - Sunday
3 Days 3 Nights

Friday Burial and Sunday Resurrection

14th - Friday
0 Days & 1 Night
15th - Saturday
1 Days & 2 Nights
16th - Sunday
2 Days & 3 Nights
17th - Monday
3 Days 3 Nights

Seeing that all four burial doctrines complete the required 3 Days & 3 Nights we must ask ourselves which truly is the one to follow since they all meet the Abib 14 date...or do they? This is where Genesis 1:1-2:3 becomes crucial in seeing which of these four burial doctrines is correct and which are false:

1st Month of Abib/Spring
01 02 03 04 05 06 07
_________01 02 03 04 (God creates the luminaries)
05 06 07 08 09 10 11
12 13 14 15 16 17 18 (Passover/Feast of Unleveaned Bread)
19 20 21 22 23 24 25 (7th/8th Day of Feast of Unleavened)
26 27 28 29 30______

The calendar year can only start on the 4th Day/Wednesday since that is when God created the luminaries: therefore this marks the beginning of the 1st Day of Abib of the 1st Year of the world. What's the significane of the 6th Day/Friday?

3rd Day/Tuesday
God gathers the waters and calls them seas; and God calls the dry land from the seas and calls it earth; and God commands the earth to briong forth fruit trees, grass, plants, and herbs.

...3 Days and 3 Nights later...

6th Day/Friday
God creates animals and man from the dust of the ground making them make and female, and commanding them to be fruitful and multiply; of these creations Go makes man in His Image and Likeness and gives us dominion over the whole earth and the rest of His creation.

Adam is a type of Christ...and Revelation tells us at the end of 6,000 Years Christ will return to rule over the earth for 1,000 Years with His saints...don't know about you guys but not only does the Tuesday Burial and Friday Resurrection fit the calendar of Genesis 1:1-2:3, but it also lines up with prophectic fulfillments of Christ Yeshua.

Not my job to tell anyone what to believe but...the evidence speaks for itself...

Humble Penny · Jan 19, 2022

Yeshua HaDerekh said:
It is a Jewish idiom. A typological metaphor. Synecdoche. Yeshua also said "on the 3rd day". The eyewitness on the road to Emmaus prove the 3 day timeline. Inclusive counting was employed. " R. Eliezar Ben Azariah said, A day and a night make an Onah, and a part of an Onah is as the whole". "Part of an onah is as the whole" - R. Ishmael

Sorry but this method of counting is not what we see in the Word of God dear brother...the first time we see a counting of days and nights is with the Flood of Noah. We are told it rained for 40 Days & 40 Nights, if what you say is true then why would God make an otherwise pointless distinction between how many days and nights passed? We know our God YHWH nor His Son, our Lord and Savior Yeshua, bother to waste anytime with superflous words, but instead are very exact with their choice of words.

This distinction between the day and the night are emphasized twice in the creation week on the 1st Day and the 4th Day; this is done again in the story of Noah; and three separate times by Moses who fasted at least three times for 40 Days and 40 Nights; and then the last two times we read of this clear distinction are found in the story of Jonah and the Gospels. It is clear then from the Scriptures that the ancient Hebrews did not include the entire night with their inclusive method of counting as God instructed Moses to distinguish between the day and night, nor are we to mix them together.

eleos1954 · Jan 19, 2022

Humble Penny said:
True enough but you still don't get 3 Days and 3 Nights:

1st Month of Abib
14th - Friday
(1 Day & 1 Night)

15th - Saturday
(2 Days & 2 Nights)

16th - Sunday
(3 Days & 2 Nights)

What did Christ say?

"for just as Jonah was 3 days and 3 nights in the belly of the sea monster, so will the Son of Man be 3 days and 3 nights in the heart of the earth."
Matthew 12:40 NASB1995

And what does the prophet Jonah tell us?

"And the Lord appointed a great fish to swallow Jonah, and Jonah was in the stomach of the fish 3 days and 3 nights."
Jonah 1:17 NASB1995

Where is your third night at? The Friday Crucifixion got the 3rd Day message right from the mouth of our Lord Yeshua, but it seems they somehow missed the 3rd Night as well. And you are right that a full 24 Hour period was counted because our Lord's clear words said only 3 Days and 3 Nights: He did not mention that they had to be full days and nights, and the story of Jonah supports this; and the story of Noah supports this as well for the beginning of the 40 Days and 40 Nights of the Flood seems to have begun late in the day; the fast of Moses seems to indicate that he didn't begun his fast exactly at the beginning of the day but later in the day shortly after the Golden Calf incident.

Jesus said that He would spend “three days and three nights” in the heart of the earth; yet, He was buried late Friday and rose Sunday morning, which isn’t three full days and nights; that is, a complete 72- hour cycle.

Obviously, then, the phrase “three days and three nights” doesn’t automatically mean exactly 72 hours. Instead, it’s simply an idiomatic expression meaning just three days, such as (in this case) Friday, Sabbath, and Sunday (see Luke 23:46–24:3, 13, 21). It doesn’t have to mean a complete 24-hour Friday, a complete 24-hour Sabbath, and a complete 24-hour Sunday.

In other places, Jesus said that “in three days” He would raise His body temple (John 2:19-21) or that He would be “raised again the third day” (Matthew 16:21). These references mean the same thing as the “three days and three nights”; that is, Jesus would be crucified and raised from the dead over a three-day period, even if only one of those days, the Sabbath, encompassed a complete 24-hour day. He was crucified late Friday, spent Sabbath in the tomb, and rose Sunday

Did Yahshua Rise on the 7th Day Shabbat...

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