Did this really happen?

[gluadys]

This cope-out is always used when one doesn't want to believe the Bible or want to follow parts or the whole of scripture.

You are barking up the wrong tree here, pastorkevin. I certainly support believing the whole Bible. I don't pick and choose which parts to believe.

I do study carefully how to interpret every part of the Bible responsibly and try to be consistent in this endeavour. And one principle I try to follow is not to add anything to scripture that is not really there. It is surprising how much people think is in the bible that is not in fact there.

 

[pastorkevin73]

You are barking up the wrong tree here, pastorkevin. I certainly support believing the whole Bible. I don't pick and choose which parts to believe.

I do study carefully how to interpret every part of the Bible responsibly and try to be consistent in this endeavour. And one principle I try to follow is not to add anything to scripture that is not really there. It is surprising how much people think is in the bible that is not in fact there.

Umm, yes, if you believe in evolution you are picking and choosing what to believe in God's word.

 

[Mallon]

Umm, yes, if you believe in evolution you are picking and choosing what to believe in God's word.

With all due respect, that means about as much to a TE as it would mean to you if a geocentrist told you the same.

 

[pastorkevin73]

With all due respect, that means about as much to a TE as it would mean to you if a geocentrist told you the same.

Actually TEs do the same thing. TEs keep telling creationists that they have the wrong interpretation of Genesis. So what's the difference?

 

[novacaine]

Actually TEs do the same thing. TEs keep telling creationists that they have the wrong interpretation of Genesis. So what's the difference?

 

[Xaero]

Umm, yes, if you believe in evolution you are picking and choosing what to believe in God's word.

*sigh*
you too pick and choose what you take literal or not, or do you think god created (bara) the smith and the waster ex nihilo?(Isa 54:16)

 

[novacaine]

*sigh*
you too pick and choose what you take literal or not, or do you think god created (bara) the smith and the waster ex nihilo?(Isa 54:16)

Actually no!

 

[Mallon]

Actually TEs do the same thing. TEs keep telling creationists that they have the wrong interpretation of Genesis. So what's the difference?

The difference is I have yet to see a TE tell you that you are picking and chosing what to believe, nor do they accuse you that you are under the influence of Satan for believing what you do. Sound familiar?
I may think your interpretation is wrong, but I would never accuse you of "picking and chosing" what to believe in the Bible. (Science is another matter, however... as AiG fully admits.)

 

[Jadis40]

FWIW, Lutheran theology tends to be a lot more tolerant of allegory and symbolism than Luther himself was.

Your mention of Luther got me curious about the views John Wesley held toward science, and I found this website which goes into some detail about his approach:

http://www.asa3.org/ASA/PSCF/1995/PSCF12-95Haas.html

 

[Deamiter]

Actually TEs do the same thing. TEs keep telling creationists that they have the wrong interpretation of Genesis. So what's the difference?

From my perspective (as a TE) I assume that my interpretation could very well be wrong. I then search out evidence and commentary by previous believers that could inform my future interpretation of scriptures.

In contrast, it seems that YECs tend to assume that their interpretation could not be incorrect (or that if it is the Bible is worthless) and then proceed to ignore any evidence or commentary that contradicts their interpretation.

 

[novacaine]

The difference is I have yet to see a TE tell you that you are picking and chosing what to believe, nor do they accuse you that you are under the influence of Satan for believing what you do. Sound familiar?
I may think your interpretation is wrong, but I would never accuse you of "picking and chosing" what to believe in the Bible. (Science is another matter, however... as AiG fully admits.)

Actually it really does sound like TEs are pointing at creationists as if they were picking and choosing.
As for the influence of Satan, why not? Ever hear of the spirit of rationalism and the spirit of intellectualism? Or do TEs not believe in spiritual warfare and the existance of angel and demons in these days or earlier?

 

[Mallon]

Actually it really does sound like TEs are pointing at creationists as if they were picking and choosing.

I've certainly never heard any TEs here voice such an opinion.
What do TEs say that makes you feel that way? If anything, I think the fact that two groups can disagree so strongly and still remain in Christ says debate over such an issue is meaningless. God wants his church to be as one. We are one in Christ. So long as we recognize God as creator, I can't help but doubt whether He cares if we subscribe to evolution of YECism.

As for the influence of Satan, why not?

Because accusing one another of being under the influence of Satan gets us nowhere.

Ever hear of the spirit of rationalism and the spirit of intellectualism?

No. Are they biblical?

 

[novacaine]

Because accusing one another of being under the influence of Satan gets us nowhere.

Jesus did this with Peter.

 

[Mallon]

Jesus did this with Peter.

You're not Jesus.
You can't read a man's heart.

 

[Deamiter]

I too would be very interested to hear if spirits of rationalism and intellectualism are Biblical.

As with many of my fellow Christians who accept the conclusions of evolution I am a firm believer in ongoing spiritual warfare. I tend to be a bit wary, however, when people start making up enemies or "spirits" as it seems to me that such an endevour could only lead one to the error of finding evil everywhere but in their own lives.

Rather than focus on what is negatively affecting society today and attacking it as "evil spirits" I try to take the Biblical approach and constantly look inward to find what is causing ME to stumble in my walk with Christ.

 

[novacaine]

You're not Jesus.
You can't read a man's heart.

I think you may be confused. This has nothing to do with judging the heart, it is discernment of spiritual matters.

 

[novacaine]

I too would be very interested to hear if spirits of rationalism and intellectualism are Biblical.

As with many of my fellow Christians who accept the conclusions of evolution I am a firm believer in ongoing spiritual warfare. I tend to be a bit wary, however, when people start making up enemies or "spirits" as it seems to me that such an endevour could only lead one to the error of finding evil everywhere but in their own lives.

Rather than focus on what is negatively affecting society today and attacking it as "evil spirits" I try to take the Biblical approach and constantly look inward to find what is causing ME to stumble in my walk with Christ.

Scripture doesn't name specific demons other than legion. However, there is much about the spiritual world (ie. angels and demons) that we don't know about. Based on what I have been taught and experience there are many demonic forces out there that have a hold on many lives both Christian and Non-Christian. The Spirit of Rejection is probably one of the Spirits that cause the most problems for most people. After the first sin (disobedience) included the act of rejecting God's command.

If you have any doubt about this try talking to some of the people in the Deliverance Ministry Thread.

 

[Tinker Grey]

As long as we are speculating, I suspect terms like that are commonly used in a "spirit of condemnation." [/irony]

 

[novacaine]

As long as we are speculating, I suspect terms like that are commonly used in a "spirit of condemnation." [/irony]

Don't mock what you don't understand or know anything about. Chat with the posters in deliverance ministry and they will open your eyes to the reality of the matter. Demons just didn't disappear after Jesus rose from the grave.

 

[Deamiter]

Don't mock what you don't understand or know anything about. Chat with the posters in deliverance ministry and they will open your eyes to the reality of the matter. Demons just didn't disappear after Jesus rose from the grave.

I don't imagine they legally changed their name to English either... I'm quite familiar with spirits -- there was a time in my life when they acted openly with me and in me. I didn't try to name one for each concept or influence that was sinful in my life though!

I don't think it's a Biblical concept to go around arbitrarily naming sprits, nor is it particularly Biblical to think that there is only one spirit per sinful act nor that spirits are in charge of only one sin each.

Talking of a "demon of Intellectualism" seems to me a rather poor attempt to make every intellectual pursuit look sinful under the guise of Christian doctrine.

It might be a good preaching or literary device to talk of a "spirit of _____" but to take it a step further and actually try to teach that there is a spirit dedicated to ______ is pure speculation and should be presented and treated as such.