Did the NT writers have it all wrong?

[DanQ]

In light of how a number of New Testament writers believed beyond a shadow of a doubt that Jesus was coming EXTREMELY soon (at least within the lifetime of an existing generation), How can a writer so filled by the Holy Spirit, who was used to write God's Word to mankind for generations and generations have this one fact so completely wrong? How can I read what they wrote as God's Word to me if they were wrong on such a huge point? How can I know they did not misunderstand some other aspect of our faith or Jesus' Teachings? What ideas and theology are we trying to follow that were developed as a result of this thinking?

The language is clear. They fully expected Jesus to return either within their lifetime or within the lifetime of the people they were directly writing to. I haven't found much discussion on this issue and it seems blaring to me.

The "day is like a thousand years" verse (2 Peter 3:8) and context is the strongest response to my question by far. That said, although it presents a nice view from Peter writing to Christians disappointed by the failed return of Christ during their lifetime, it was written after most of the other books of the NT. It does provide an answer to us and perhaps gives me an indication of what the apostle Peter believed as he was nearing his death...but it still does not take away all of the many other verses that indicate a strong belief in a soon return of Christ and soon being used without qualifiers that discredit the use of the word by the writers. Just a few detailed examples:

Paul encouraged his historic audiences' expectations by teaching that many of them would be alive when Christ returned. He said “we shall not all die, but we shall all be changed in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet-call. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will rise immortal, and we shall be changed.”[1]​

Paul gave a similar message to the Thessalonians: “For this we tell you as the Lord’s word: we who are left alive until the Lord comes shall not forestall those who have died; because at the word of command, at the sound of the archangel’s voice and God’s trumpet-call, the Lord himself will descend from heaven; first the Christian dead will rise, then we who are alive shall join them, caught up in clouds to meet the Lord in the air.”[2]

No wonder Paul observed that the Thessalonians too “wait expectantly for the appearance from heaven of . . . Jesus.”[3]

Paul promoted a lifestyle reflecting his beliefs about the world’s approaching end. Like Jesus, he saw little need to care about worldly matters.
He proclaimed: “What I mean, my friends, is this. The time we live in will not last long. While it lasts, married men should be as if they had no wives; mourners should be as if they had nothing to grieve them, the joyful as if they did not rejoice, buyers must not count on keeping what they buy, nor those who use the world’s wealth on using it to the full. For the whole frame of this world is passing away.”[4]
In other words, Christians should be apathetic about everything in this dying world – including families, friends, love, possessions, happiness, and sadness.
Other writers of the New Testament similarly expected a quick end to the world. The book of Hebrews states that “in this the final age [God] has spoken to us in the Son.”[5] It also says Christ “has appeared once and for all at the climax of history.”[6]
James informed his readers they were “in an age that is near its close.”[7] He assured them “the coming of the Lord is near.”[8]
The author of I John exclaimed, “My children, this is the last hour!”[9] And he was excited that the Antichrist, who would appear in the last days and oppose Jesus, was “in the world already!”[10]
Jude told his readers they were “in the final age.”[11] The author of I Peter agreed by saying the “end of all things is upon us.”[12]
Thus, the earliest books of the Bible thought the world was almost over and taught people to conduct their lives accordingly.​

1 I Corinthians 15:51-52
2 I Thessalonians 4:15-17
3 I Thessalonians 1:10
4 I Corinthians 7:29-31
5 Hebrews 1:2
6 Hebrews 9:26
7 James 5:3
8 James 5:8
9 I John 2:18
10 I John 4:3
11 Jude 18
12 I Peter 4:7

 

[GW]

The "soon" "near" and "at hand" judgment of Christ was fulfilled in the destruction of the Old Covenant nation and world at AD 70.

But that first-century demonstration of Christ's power and glory over the affairs of humankind also speaks to a final judgment at the end of time.

So, no, the apostles and Jesus did not err. However, a great many christians today do err by failing to recognize just how important that destruction of the Old Covenant dynasty was, which took place in the apostles' generation.

 

[DanQ]

The "soon" "near" and "at hand" judgment of Christ was fulfilled in the destruction of the Old Covenant nation and world at AD 70.

But that first-century demonstration of Christ's power and glory over the affairs of humankind also speaks to a final judgment at the end of time.

So, no, the apostles and Jesus did not err. However, a great many christians today do err by failing to recognize just how important that destruction of the Old Covenant dynasty was, which took place in the apostles' generation.

I agree with you GW. While it can be legitimately argued that a good portion of the Scriptures I reference could be applied to AD 70, I don't see how this idea can be applied to the first two references: I Corinthians 15:51-52 and Thessalonians 4:15-17. These reference events that did not happen and most still expect to happen in at the "end of the world". Yet the language is consistent with short-term expectency and arguable directly connected with all other references to the "end of the age". If Paul had not talked about the dead coming out of the graves, then it would be harder to refute your more spiritual perspective and "age" and "world" as referring to the age of the Jews.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

I agree with you GW. While it can be legitimately argued that a good portion of the Scriptures I reference could be applied to AD 70, I don't see how this idea can be applied to the first two references: I Corinthians 15:51-52 and Thessalonians 4:15-17. These reference events that did not happen and most still expect to happen in at the "end of the world". Yet the language is consistent with short-term expectency and arguable directly connected with all other references to the "end of the age". If Paul had not talked about the dead coming out of the graves, then it would be harder to refute your more spiritual perspective and "age" and "world" as referring to the age of the Jews.

Of course they are.

http://www.christianforums.com/t5366795-what-is-the-parousia-in-the-new-testament.html

1 Thessalonians 3:13 Into the stand-fast of ye, the hearts blameless in together-holiness before the God and Father of us in the Parousia <3952> of the Lord of us, Jesus Christ, with all of the holy-ones of Him [Zech 14:5/Revelation 19:11.]

Zech 14:5 And you flee ravine of mountains, that he shall touch ravine of mountains to 'Atsel. And you flee as which you fled from before the earthquake in days of `Uzziyah king of Y@huwdah and He comes, YHWH my Elohiym, all of holy-ones with You. [1 thess 3/Reve 19/20]

Reve 19:11 And I perceived the heaven having be opened and Lo! A horse, white and the One sitting on it/him being called Faithful and True and in justice He is judging and is battling.
14 And the armies, the in the heaven, followed to him on horses, white, having been inslipped/dressed linen, white, clean,

 

[HisdaughterJen]

Dan 12:4 But you, Daniel, close up and seal the words of the scroll until the time of the end. Many will go here and there to increase knowledge.&#8221;



Dan 12:10 Many will be purified, made spotless and refined, but the wicked will continue to be wicked. None of the wicked will understand, but those who are wise will understand.



What the New Testament Christians didn't understand is the length of time allotted to allow the Gentiles to come in/Israel to be scattered.

It was there, though.

Exodus 19:10-20 (wash clothes "today and tomorrow" = 2 days/2000 years - compare to multitude in Rev 7) , Hosea 6: 1-3 ("after two days, "on the third day"), Jesus' parable of the Good Samaritan (Samaritan gives the innkeeper (church) two days wages and then said he would return. Two days wages...2000 years), among other places.

 

[GW]

DaughterJen:
What the New Testament Christians didn't understand is the length of time

GW:
Hi Dan Q. In contrast to daughterjen's statement there, which makes the apostles teachers of error, I believe the destruction of the Old Covenant nation is the primary sense of the apostles' eschatological teachings.

It is even possible to understand resurrection in light of the AD 30-AD 70 period, as the word itself means "to stand" and receives multiple uses and meanings in scripture. (For example: the OT "national resurrections" of Israel; the "being raised" with Christ in baptism; the removal of the departed OT souls from Hades to Heaven; the final state).

So, I don't think Christ and the apostles erred. Rather, many of today's Christians have erred by not recognizing the link between the time statements and the end of the Old Covenant age, when God came in judgment upon Christ's enemies (Pharisees, Zealots, Sadducees, etc) at AD 70. Yes, this foreshadows an even greater *final* judgment of God in the future, but the imminent one that was "near" and "soon" and "at hand" to first-century jews was the AD 70 end of their nation and covenant and priesthood and tribes and 1500-year dynasty under Moses. The old nation instituted by Moses gave way to the new and greater covenanted nation which was made worldwide in Christ Jesus.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

DaughterJen:
What the New Testament Christians didn't understand is the length of time

GW:
Hi Dan Q. ........
It is even possible to understand resurrection in light of the AD 30-AD 70 period, as the word itself means "to stand" and receives multiple uses in meanings in scripture. (For example: the OT "national resurrections" of Israel; the "being raised" with Christ in baptism; the removal of the dead from Hades to Heaven; the final state).
.

Hi Gw. Do me a favor and look up Luke 2:34 and see what word you see in almost all versions.

http://www.scripture4all.org/

Ezekiel 37:10 So I prophesied as He commanded me, and breath came into them, and they lived, and stood upon their feet, an exceedingly great army. 11 Then He said to me, "Son of adam, these bones are the whole house of Israel. They indeed say, 'Our bones are dry, our hope is lost, and we ourselves are cut off!'

Luke 2:34 And blesses them, Simon, and said toward Mariam, the mother of Him, "Lo, this-one is set/lying for the Falling and Ressurection/ana-stasin <386> in many to-the Israel, and into a Sign spoken against"-- [Ezekiel 37 "valley of bones]

Reve 11:11 And after the three days and half a spirit/breath of life out of the God into-came in them, and they stand/esthsan <2476> (5627) upon their feet, and great fear falls upon those seeing them. [Ezekiel 37/Luke 2:34/Reve 20:5]

Reve 20:5 The rest of the dead-ones not live until should be being finished the thousand years. This the Resurrection/ana-stasiV <386>, the First/prwth <4413>.

 

[GW]

Yes, littlelamb, I see Luke 2:34-35 as speaking of the *national* fall and standing (resurrection) which indeed took place.

Resurrection is a tricky topic because the bible uses the term "resurrection" of national restorations, personal salvation/baptism, the transfer of departed souls in the O.T. Hades into God's heaven, and the final state of all things. I would characterize Luke 2:34-35 as speaking of Israel's first-century destruction and re-constitution via the Nazarene sect of King Jesus under the foretold NEW covenant.

 

[DanQ]

GW: I'm finding it hard to follow your logic with the first two verses. I'm very familiar with the preterists view points and there are many gaps. Paul said "We shall not all die...at the last trumpet call". He also talked about the Lord descending from heaven, the dead rising out of the graves, and gave this meaning context by saying that "we who are alive will join them". Every single indication of these verses is literal including context, greek definition, and plain reading. We are all to meet Jesus in the clouds as well. First, the logical leaps and creativity that you must utilize to get around this is quite bizarre. All of the evidence points to a singular perspective from the NT writers...not that there would be two returns. The final Judgement is synonimous to the second coming of Christ. The NT just did not express their views in this way. When Christ came to gather his church, Christians were going to meet him in the clouds and on to glory. It was the end of everything. It seems like history tells a different story, so there is our perspective that the final judgement obviously did not occur, so we much fit all of the loose pieces into a new idea that was nothing close to what the NT writers expected or believed.

 

[GW]

DanQ:
I'm very familiar with the preterists view points and there are many gaps.

GW:
The gaps, as you call them, are ones modern people have with understanding the way the Hebrew prophets spoke. I can show you countless O.T. "comings" of Jehovah that use the apocalyptic language we encounter in the New Testament to describe the fall of civilizations of the Old Testament period (i.e., historic judgments against Assyria, Babylon, Edom, Israel, Nineveh, Egypt etc.).

Understanding N.T. eschatology requires understanding the Old Testament era first. The Almighty Jehovah descended from heaven many times in the O.T. period to wage wars and conduct conquests and invade history, according to the prophets. And they were describing the rise and fall of civilizations in history. Most christians don't study Old Testament apocalypses in their historic contexts and thus have arrived at an unbiblical eschatology for the New Testament.


DANQ:
All of the evidence points to a singular perspective from the NT writers...not that there would be two returns.

GW:
The primary perspective of the "near" and "soon" and "at hand" judgment of Christ was speaking of God's judgment upon the Jewish nation of their generation and the establishment of the NEW covenant world. In addition, they did not delimit God's rule over history to that event. Rather, they foresaw that a New Covenant world would replace the Old Covenant one established by Moses. This took place as they taught and in the timeframe they predicted.


DANQ:
When Christ came to gather his church, Christians were going to meet him in the clouds and on to glory. It was the end of everything.

GW:
Only people unfamiliar with the parallel O.T. judgments of Jehovah would assert this.


DANQ:
It seems like history tells a different story, so there is our perspective that the final judgement obviously did not occur, so we much fit all of the loose pieces into a new idea that was nothing close to what the NT writers expected or believed.

GW:
The end of the Old Covenant Age most certainly did occur, and history verifies that Christ and the apostles were absolutely prophetic in creating a NEW covenant form of judaism that detached from the Temple, the priestly class, the animal sacrifices, and the tribal system---for those things all went extinct at AD 70, as foretold. History proves that the Nazarene sect of first-century Judaism was prophetic. That is the origin of Christianity.

The problem lies not with the NT writers but rather with modern readers who are completely unfamiliar with the way the Hebrew prophets spoke of God's Providential control over history.

 

[DanQ]

GW

You fail to realize or understand that I completely agree with you. A majority of all Scripture that is used to describe a future Parousia is actually better and more accurately understood within a historical context. The OT references that you are making absolutely tie in with the language used to describe many of the "end of the age" events.

I'm simply making the observation that you still believe in some sort of future coming. I've yet to hear your justification for this. I'm also pointing out that not ALL of the end times Scripture passages fit neatly into a historical context (hence a majority of Christians not being full preterists). Paul's descriptions of the end times do not follow the same OT genre that you refer to that describe many of the events as Jesus lays them out. See from my original post.

"He said &#8220;we shall not all die, but we shall all be changed in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet-call. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will rise immortal, and we shall be changed.&#8221;[1]​

Paul gave a similar message to the Thessalonians: &#8220;For this we tell you as the Lord&#8217;s word: we who are left alive until the Lord comes shall not forestall those who have died; because at the word of command, at the sound of the archangel&#8217;s voice and God&#8217;s trumpet-call, the Lord himself will descend from heaven; first the Christian dead will rise, then we who are alive shall join them, caught up in clouds to meet the Lord in the air.&#8221;[2]
No wonder Paul observed that the Thessalonians too &#8220;wait expectantly for the appearance from heaven of . . . Jesus.&#8221;[3]"

It is not a misinterpreting of this Scripture to believe that Paul is communicating an actual event, not a symbolic description of something spiritual. A thorough study of the original Greek in this passage will show that a majority of Biblical scholars are right to describe this as Paul's understanding of an actual event. The language, even in historical context, does not lend itself to the minority view that every single description (dead rising, Jesus appearing, caught up in the clouds, we shall not die, we shall be changed: study Paul's view of the transformation and spiritual resurrection of believers, etc.) is purely symbolic. This is not describing a judgment with symbolism being the communication tool of choice, it is describing a hope of leaving this world to be with Christ.

So I'm back to my original question with hopefully you understanding that I understand that a majority (not all) of a preterist's position is fully justifiable, reasonable, and probably true. However, based upon just a few examples above, it seems clear that Paul was expecting something different to occur....hence, "the gaps".

 

[GW]

DanQ,

Are you proposing that the apostles erred about the timing of 1 Thess 4:13-17? Please inform me of your position.

The subject is complex, for resurrection may speak of national restoration (Isa 26:13-14,19-20/ Ez 37), of baptismal regeneration, of the exit from Hades/Sheol, and the final judgment.

I am of the view that 1 Thess 4:13-17 is a discussion of when the O.T. dead would escape Hades/Sheol and be united to Christ in the heavenlies. In short, Paul says that their release from Hades was about to happen, as the impending historic change of the covenants (Heb 8:13/2 Cor 3:6-11) was to be marked by the Temple's profanation/desecration (2 Thess 2:3-4/Matt 23:33-24:2) and God's wrath on their disobedient Jewish countrymen (1 Thess 2:15-16/Mt 23:33-38/Acts 3:22-24).

I think this to be a reasonable explanation---far more reasonable than the notion that St. Paul erred.


.

 

[DanQ]

Again, what is your justification for believing in a final and/or "third" Parousia? If you take the position that all Eschatological language is symbolic for AD 70, where is your justification for a final second coming? All language in the Bible to describe an end to the world as we presently know it is intermingled with the language used to describe AD 70. Although you mention the word "complex" to describe the linguistic acrobatics to do a sudden shift in Paul's language from literal to symbolic (complex may be an understatement), I don't see your explanation for all of the points I brought up about Paul's end times language to be anywhere close to convincing.

As a side note, in order to take your views, you would have to assert that it is not a bodily resurrection that we will partake in, but a spiritual one. Paul is constantly comparing our experience with that of Jesus. And in talking about the resurrection, we partake with Christ in his resurrection (in like manner). In order to believe that it is not a physical resurrection, for the sake of unity of Paul's ideas, you would have to say that Jesus did not physically resurrect. If you say that, you deny what the Bible says about the resurrection (the tomb was empty).

 

[GW]

DanQ:
Again, what is your justification for believing in a final and/or "third" Parousia?

GW:
Hold on, one topic at a time. And I asked you a question: Are you proposing that the apostles erred about the timing of 1 Thess 4:13-17? Please inform me of your view.

DanQ:
If you take the position that all Eschatological language is symbolic for AD 70...

GW:
First, any time I have made eschatological language symbolic, I have done so because I can reference many times in the O.T. where the same language is used as describing historic past judgments/comings of the invisible Godhead. Jehovah was in many times past said to come down with armies and thrones and bowls of wrath etc. etc (on Egypt, Babylon, Nineveh, Israel, Assyria, Edom). The Hebrew prophets did *not* mean that God made himself visible when he executed such judgments. Instead, they understood that world history was being executed by their God according to the very plan and law He had revealed to them ahead of time.

DanQ:
I don't see your explanation for all of the points I brought up about Paul's end times language to be anywhere close to convincing. What part of the following claim would you like to dispute:

1 Thess 4:13-17 is a discussion of when the O.T. dead would escape Hades/Sheol and be united to Christ in the heavenlies. In short, Paul says that their release from Hades was about to happen, as the impending historic change of the covenants (Heb 8:13/2 Cor 3:6-11) was to be marked by the Temple's profanation/desecration (2 Thess 2:3-4/Matt 23:33-24:2) and God's wrath on their disobedient Jewish countrymen (1 Thess 2:15-16/Mt 23:33-38/Acts 3:22-24).
​

 

[DanQ]

What is your interpretation of Acts 1:11 where it states that Jesus will return (come) "in just the same way as you have watched him go into Heaven."?

 

[GW]

Why are you not interacting with my posts, Dan? I've asked you questions and you aren't answering. I'm trying to have a dialogue with you.

 

[DanQ]

GW:
Hold on, one topic at a time. And I asked you a question: Are you proposing that the apostles erred about the timing of 1 Thess 4:13-17? Please inform me of your view.



What part of the following claim would you like to dispute:

1 Thess 4:13-17 is a discussion of when the O.T. dead would escape Hades/Sheol and be united to Christ in the heavenlies. In short, Paul says that their release from Hades was about to happen, as the impending historic change of the covenants (Heb 8:13/2 Cor 3:6-11) was to be marked by the Temple's profanation/desecration (2 Thess 2:3-4/Matt 23:33-24:2) and God's wrath on their disobedient Jewish countrymen (1 Thess 2:15-16/Mt 23:33-38/Acts 3:22-24).
​

There are no hidden intentions behind my question. Your question is repeating my original question. This is the question. I hold no view as of yet on the issue. My view is being formed as we speak. I understand the implications of the question however and am treading very lightly, but I will not ignore the question simply because of the potential outcome of a particular answer.

Okay, these points are stretches, but I won't dispute them with you. You have not explained other aspects of the verse however. So I'm not going to dispute your explanations for certain portions of the passages, but if you cannot explain "we who are alive", "we will be changed", and the fact that we will be joining the resurrection of the dead, and other aspects of the passage that has yet to be addressed, then you have not explained how each compenent fits into symbolism.

I posted the last response before I saw that you had responded to me. I would still like an answer from you now on Acts 1:11 and how a final judgement or second end of the world is justified with Scpriture.

Thanks.

 

[GW]

DanQ:
I hold no view as of yet on the issue. My view is being formed as we speak.

GW:
Fair enough.

DanQ:
Okay, these points are stretches, but I won't dispute them with you.

GW:
They are *not* stretches. I can make a strong case for every point on this. The only "stretch" is to have to re-educate most people who don't have any idea that God ever came down in judgment prior to the discussion of Christ doing so. There is not one apocalyptic judgment in scripture, but many. Sadly, very few christians seem to know this.


DanQ:
but if you cannot explain "we who are alive", "we will be changed", and the fact that we will be joining the resurrection of the dead, and other aspects of the passage that has yet to be addressed, then you have not explained how each compenent fits into symbolism.

GW:
The first point to note is that you have correctly in your opening post noted the timing of this proposed passage. Not only, but you have made this a serious issue by suggesting that the apostles erred. So you have laid out two options: (1) the apostles erred and (2) there's a gap somewhere.

I am showing you a third option. Just about everyone who studies NT theology knows that a major change took place for the dead back in the first century. In OT times, the dead did *not* ascend into Heaven but rather were prevented from doing so by the absence of a covenant that cleansed them fully. Moreover, nearly all christian groups admit that a change has occurred for the dead between the OT times and the NT times. What is entirely unclear however is precisely when that change took place. I am making the case that the bible teaches it took place when the Temple was destroyed during their "visitation" (Luke 19:40-44), in the days of vengeance (Luke 21:20-22).

The destruction of the Temple was hugely significant in that it was the historic signifier that the Old Covenant had vanished and the New had replaced it. Moreover, the destruction of the Temple was a key teaching of Christ, and one St. Paul picks up on at 2 Thess 2:3-4. And so I believe the most obvious and biblical understanding of 1 Thess 4 is that the dead in Hades were to be united to Christ when the Temple was profaned and desecrated. The "change" was huge, for it was the precise "change" that we think of when we distinguish the Old Covenant from the New Covenant.

 

[jeffweeder]

The language is clear. They fully expected Jesus to return either within their lifetime or within the lifetime of the people they were directly writing to. I haven't found much discussion on this issue and it seems blaring to me.

Jesus alluded to the fact that his coming may be after a long time.

"For it is just like a man about to go on a journey, who called his own slaves and entrusted his possessions to them.
15 "To one he gave five talents, to another, two, and to another, one, each according to his own ability; and he went on his journey.
16 "Immediately the one who had received the five talents went and traded with them, and gained five more talents.
17 "In the same manner the one who had received the two talents gained two more.
18 "But he who received the one talent went away, and dug a hole in the ground and hid his master's money.
19 "Now after a long time the master of those slaves came and settled accounts with them

He said he wasnt going to come back until the Gospel had been preached to all tribes.

other allusions;

Know this first of all, that in the last days mockers will come with their mocking, following after their own lusts,
4 and saying, "Where is the promise of His coming?
...........................
The Lord is not slow about His promise, as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing for any to perish but for all to come to repentance.

A New Heaven and Earth

10 But the day of the Lord will come like a thief, in which the heavens will pass away with a roar and the elements will be destroyed with intense heat, and the earth and its works will be burned up.

Since all these things are to be destroyed in this way, what sort of people ought you to be in holy conduct and godliness,
12 looking for and hastening the coming of the day of God, because of which the heavens will be destroyed by burning, and the elements will melt with intense heat!
13 But according to His promise we are looking for new heavens and a new earth, in which righteousness dwells.

and they will fall by the edge of the sword, and will be led captive into all the nations; and Jerusalem will be trampled under foot by the Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled.

25 "There will be signs in sun and moon and stars, and on the earth dismay among nations, in perplexity at the roaring of the sea and the waves,
26 men fainting from fear and the expectation of the things which are coming upon the world; for the powers of the heavens will be shaken.
27 "Then they will see THE SON OF MAN COMING IN A CLOUD with power and great glory.
28 "But when these things begin to take place, straighten up and lift up your heads, because your redemption is drawing near."

Now we request you, brethren, with regard to the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him,
2 that you not be quickly shaken from your composure or be disturbed either by a spirit or a message or a letter as if from us, to the effect that the day of the Lord has come.
3 Let no one in any way deceive you, for it will not come unless the apostasy comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction,

 

[GW]

Jeff,

All the NT writers speak of some coming of God in their lifetimes that was a major judgment. They spoke of the destruction of their entire nation, which took place at AD 70. This is not to be confused with other judgments of God in the past or in our future.

The parable by Jesus doesn't span longer than one group of contemporaries living at the same time (a master and his slaves). That's not a very long time at all.