Did Paul fight wild beasts in Ephesus?

[KevinT]

I was listening to 1 Cor 15:32 in the Message Bible (a paraphrase) and was surprised when I came across this text:

1 Cor 15:32 30-33 And why do you think I keep risking my neck in this dangerous work? I look death in the face practically every day I live. Do you think I’d do this if I wasn’t convinced of your resurrection and mine as guaranteed by the resurrected Messiah Jesus? Do you think I was just trying to act heroic when I fought the wild beasts at Ephesus, hoping it wouldn’t be the end of me? Not on your life! It’s resurrection, resurrection, always resurrection, that undergirds what I do and say, the way I live. If there’s no resurrection, “We eat, we drink, the next day we die,” and that’s all there is to it. But don’t fool yourselves. Don’t let yourselves be poisoned by this anti-resurrection loose talk. “Bad company ruins good manners.”

Wait, Paul fought wild beasts in Ephesus?? What is this talking about?

Here are lots of other translations from here

New International Version
If I fought wild beasts in Ephesus with no more than human hopes, what have I gained? If the dead are not raised, “Let us eat and drink, for tomorrow we die.”

New Living Translation
And what value was there in fighting wild beasts—those people of Ephesus—if there will be no resurrection from the dead? And if there is no resurrection, “Let’s feast and drink, for tomorrow we die!”

English Standard Version
What do I gain if, humanly speaking, I fought with beasts at Ephesus? If the dead are not raised, “Let us eat and drink, for tomorrow we die.”

Berean Standard Bible
If I fought wild beasts in Ephesus for human motives, what did I gain? If the dead are not raised, “Let us eat and drink, for tomorrow we die.”

Berean Literal Bible
If according to man I fought wild beasts in Ephesus, what is the profit to me? If the dead are not raised, "Let us eat and let us drink, for tomorrow we die."

King James Bible
If after the manner of men I have fought with beasts at Ephesus, what advantageth it me, if the dead rise not? let us eat and drink; for to morrow we die.

New King James Version
If, in the manner of men, I have fought with beasts at Ephesus, what advantage is it to me? If the dead do not rise, “Let us eat and drink, for tomorrow we die!”

New American Standard Bible
If from human motives I fought with wild beasts at Ephesus, what good is it to me? If the dead are not raised, LET’S EAT AND DRINK, FOR TOMORROW WE DIE.

NASB 1995
If from human motives I fought with wild beasts at Ephesus, what does it profit me? If the dead are not raised, LET US EAT AND DRINK, FOR TOMORROW WE DIE.

NASB 1977
If from human motives I fought with wild beasts at Ephesus, what does it profit me? If the dead are not raised, LET US EAT AND DRINK, FOR TOMORROW WE DIE.

Legacy Standard Bible
If from human motives I fought with wild beasts at Ephesus, what does it profit me? If the dead are not raised, LET US EAT AND DRINK, FOR TOMORROW WE DIE.

Amplified Bible
What good has it done me if, [merely] from a human point of view, I fought with wild animals at Ephesus? If the dead are not raised [at all], LET US EAT AND DRINK [enjoying ourselves now], FOR TOMORROW WE DIE.

Christian Standard Bible
If I fought wild beasts in Ephesus as a mere man, what good did that do me? If the dead are not raised, Let us eat and drink, for tomorrow we die.

Holman Christian Standard Bible
If I fought wild animals in Ephesus with only human hope, what good did that do me? If the dead are not raised, Let us eat and drink, for tomorrow we die.

American Standard Version
If after the manner of men I fought with beasts at Ephesus, what doth it profit me? If the dead are not raised, let us eat and drink, for to-morrow we die.

Aramaic Bible in Plain English
And if, as a citizen of the people, I was cast to wild beasts in Ephesaus, what have I gained if the dead do not rise? Let us eat and drink, for tomorrow we die.

Contemporary English Version
What do you think I gained by fighting wild animals in Ephesus? If the dead are not raised to life, "Let's eat and drink. Tomorrow we die."

Douay-Rheims Bible
If (according to man) I fought with beasts at Ephesus, what doth it profit me, if the dead rise not again? Let us eat and drink, for to morrow we shall die.

English Revised Version
If after the manner of men I fought with beasts at Ephesus, what doth it profit me? If the dead are not raised, let us eat and drink, for tomorrow we die.

GOD'S WORD® Translation
If I have fought with wild animals in Ephesus, what have I gained according to the way people look at things? If the dead are not raised, "Let's eat and drink because tomorrow we're going to die!"

Good News Translation
If I have, as it were, fought "wild beasts" here in Ephesus simply from human motives, what have I gained? But if the dead are not raised to life, then, as the saying goes, "Let us eat and drink, for tomorrow we will die."

International Standard Version
If I have fought with wild animals in Ephesus from merely human motives, what do I get out of it? If the dead are not raised, "Let's eat and drink, for tomorrow we die."

Literal Standard Version
If I fought with wild beasts in Ephesus after the manner of a man, what [is] the advantage to me if the dead do not rise? Let us eat and drink, for tomorrow we die!

Majority Standard Bible
If I fought wild beasts in Ephesus for human motives, what did I gain? If the dead are not raised, “Let us eat and drink, for tomorrow we die.”

New American Bible
If at Ephesus I fought with beasts, so to speak, what benefit was it to me? If the dead are not raised: “Let us eat and drink, for tomorrow we die.”

NET Bible
If from a human point of view I fought with wild beasts at Ephesus, what did it benefit me? If the dead are not raised, let us eat and drink, for tomorrow we die.

New Revised Standard Version
If with merely human hopes I fought with wild animals at Ephesus, what would I have gained by it? If the dead are not raised, “Let us eat and drink, for tomorrow we die.”

New Heart English Bible
If I fought with animals at Ephesus for human purposes, what does it profit me? If the dead are not raised, then "let us eat and drink, for tomorrow we die."

Webster's Bible Translation
If after the manner of men I have fought with beasts at Ephesus, what advantage is it to me, if the dead rise not? let us eat and drink; for to-morrow we die.

Weymouth New Testament
If from merely human motives I have fought with wild beasts in Ephesus, what profit is it to me? If the dead do not rise, let us eat and drink, for tomorrow we are to die.

World English Bible
If I fought with animals at Ephesus for human purposes, what does it profit me? If the dead are not raised, then “let’s eat and drink, for tomorrow we die.”

Young's Literal Translation
if after the manner of a man with wild beasts I fought in Ephesus, what the advantage to me if the dead do not rise? let us eat and drink, for to-morrow we die!

So it looks like the Message paraphrase seems to have left the "IF" out. I wonder why they translated it this way??

What do you think?

Kevin

 

[Offline4Better.]

I was listening to 1 Cor 15:32 in the Message Bible (a paraphrase) and was surprised when I came across this text:



Wait, Paul fought wild beasts in Ephesus?? What is this talking about?

Here are lots of other translations from here



So it looks like the Message paraphrase seems to have left the "IF" out. I wonder why they translated it this way??

What do you think?

Kevin

Well, if all the other Bible translations (NIV, NRSV, KJV, etc) agree with each other and the Message does not, then the Message is not the best translation to be using, brother. Stay away from it, please.

 

[Joseph G]

I was listening to 1 Cor 15:32 in the Message Bible (a paraphrase) and was surprised when I came across this text:



Wait, Paul fought wild beasts in Ephesus?? What is this talking about?

Here are lots of other translations from here



So it looks like the Message paraphrase seems to have left the "IF" out. I wonder why they translated it this way??

What do you think?

Kevin

I would chunk the Message in the trash, Kevin. Better... burn it!

Dangers of the Message Bible - Dove Ministries

DANGERS OF THE MESSAGE BIBLE By Bill Subritzky Bill Subritzky’s Comments and Concerns on the Translation of The New Testament Called: “The Message” Bill Subritzky examines ‘The Message’ translation. In this critique Bill says, ‘The Message’ is one man’s translation of the Bible unlike the New...

www.doveministries.com

 

[KevinT]

I would chunk the Message in the trash, Kevin. Better... burn it!

I know that paraphrase translations are intrinsically inaccurate as it adds interpretation by the author. I like reading it because, when the phrasing is different, it makes me reprocess the original text, and I can gain new insights. But I would never base any doctrine or religious belief on it.

My original post was not a serious doctrinal type question, but more along the lines of how vague the original language might be that would allow for such a translation? For example, the English standard version, below:

English Standard Version
What do I gain if, humanly speaking, I fought with beasts at Ephesus? If the dead are not raised, “Let us eat and drink, for tomorrow we die.”

Seems to put the concept of fighting the beast in the past tense, “fought”, which seems a little bit strange to me. Like saying, “if I crashed my car yesterday”. Why would you put an ”if” for something in the past? Am I unsure whether I crashed that car?

So yes, I will be very cautious with this paraphrase version. I just thought it was interesting to think about.

KT

 

[Offline4Better.]

I would chunk the Message in the trash, Kevin. Better... burn it!

Dangers of the Message Bible - Dove Ministries

DANGERS OF THE MESSAGE BIBLE By Bill Subritzky Bill Subritzky’s Comments and Concerns on the Translation of The New Testament Called: “The Message” Bill Subritzky examines ‘The Message’ translation. In this critique Bill says, ‘The Message’ is one man’s translation of the Bible unlike the New...

www.doveministries.com

Yep, burning, or burying it is the best course of action. Or, recycling it, so the book can be turned into new paper.

 

[Always in His Presence]

I know that paraphrase translations are intrinsically inaccurate as it adds interpretation by the author. I like reading it because, when the phrasing is different, it makes me reprocess the original text, and I can gain new insights. But I would never base any doctrine or religious belief on it.

My original post was not a serious doctrinal type question, but more along the lines of how vague the original language might be that would allow for such a translation? For example, the English standard version, below:


Seems to put the concept of fighting the beast in the past tense, “fought”, which seems a little bit strange to me. Like saying, “if I crashed my car yesterday”. Why would you put an ”if” for something in the past? Am I unsure whether I crashed that car?

So yes, I will be very cautious with this paraphrase version. I just thought it was interesting to think about.

KT

I'm with you on the Message - it is not a word for word translation, but a paraphrase that adds an element to scripture.

Some take the passage literally as in Paul fighting wild animals - and others take it tropically - a phrase describing what it was like fighting with men who opposed his ministry.

They support the approach because the word 'beast' is part of a phrase, not a stand alone word in the Greek and they note that Paul, in his listing of challenges never mentions animals.

2 Cor 11:23 Are they ministers of Christ?—I speak as a fool—I am more: in labors more abundant, in stripes above measure, in prisons more frequently, in deaths often. 24 From the Jews five times I received forty stripes minus one. 25 Three times I was beaten with rods; once I was stoned; three times I was shipwrecked; a night and a day I have been in the deep; 26 in journeys often, in perils of waters, in perils of robbers, in perils of my own countrymen, in perils of the Gentiles, in perils in the city, in perils in the wilderness, in perils in the sea, in perils among false brethren; 27 in weariness and toil, in sleeplessness often, in hunger and thirst, in fastings often, in cold and nakedness— 28 besides the other things, what comes upon me daily: my deep concern for all the churches. 29 Who is weak, and I am not weak? Who is made to stumble, and I do not burn with indignation?​

​

Because he makes no reference to animals, I tend to agree with it being a phrase describing the people he had to battle with.

Note the following references equating men as beasts:

1 Titus 1:12 One of them, a prophet of their own, said, “Cretans are always liars, evil beasts, lazy gluttons.”

and here Peter uses the same terminology.

2 Peter 2:12 But these, like natural brute beasts made to be caught and destroyed, speak evil of the things they do not understand, and will utterly perish in their own corruption,

Jude 1:10 But these speak evil of whatever they do not know; and whatever they know naturally, like brute beasts, in these things they corrupt themselves.

 

[Always in His Presence]

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