Did Noah's Ark Steal/Borrow From Older Flood Stories?

[BibleUnboxed]

I recently made 2 videos exploring the relationship between Noah's Ark and older ancient flood stories, mainly the Epic of Atrahasis which has been dated older than the composition of Genesis.

First video looks at how Noah's Ark can be viewed as a rebuttal to the theology of other Ancient flood stories:

Second video is a fully animated retelling of the Epic of Atrahasis

 

[Strathos]

Maybe they are both based on a real event.

 

[BibleUnboxed]

Maybe they are both based on a real event.

It's certainly a possibility. I do think it's interesting though that all these ancient cultures (Babylon, Assyria, Mesopotamia etc.) use the flood story as a way of explaining the gods relationship to humans. All the stories carry more than just historical data, they carry theological commentary. And Genesis kinds of turns those motifs on their head with the idea of One God.

But you're right, there could have been a shared event that these cultures experienced.

 

[pescador]

If ancient religions have stories about a massive flood then it undoubtedly happened.

 

[quaternion]

Did other ancient flood stories steal from the Bible and how would you know the difference? Why do people always assume information in the Bible was borrowed from other sources and never the other way round?

 

[pescador]

Did other ancient flood stories steal from the Bible and how would you know the difference? Why do people always assume information in the Bible was borrowed from other sources and never the other way round?

Because the other sources predate the Bible. Simple.

 

[quaternion]

Because the other sources predate the Bible. Simple.

Unfortunately, not simple. Given the heavy dependence on oral transmission for ancient stories, the fact that someone learned to write first doesn't mean they were the originator. There are known cases of people writing down what they heard from others.

That is why historians refer to extant sources. It means the earliest known copy of a work, but does not claim to be the original.

 

[Albion]

But the main point may be that all these peoples lived in an area where big floods happened. Of course, they would make their way into regional accounts and records. Even in modern times, projects aimed at draining the marshlands in that part of the world have been major undertakings. If the stories of deluges were a big thing in, say, Mongolian history, we would probably see that differently.

 

[Zao is life]

It's certainly a possibility. I do think it's interesting though that all these ancient cultures (Babylon, Assyria, Mesopotamia etc.) use the flood story as a way of explaining the gods relationship to humans. All the stories carry more than just historical data, they carry theological commentary. And Genesis kinds of turns those motifs on their head with the idea of One God.

But you're right, there could have been a shared event that these cultures experienced.

It's like ancient Assyrian records on Obelisks etc containing accounts of the Assyrian kings interactions with the kings of the Northern kingdom of Israel but the details differing slightly with the Biblical narrative.

 

[Zao is life]

I recently made 2 videos exploring the relationship between Noah's Ark and older ancient flood stories, mainly the Epic of Atrahasis which has been dated older than the composition of Genesis.

First video looks at how Noah's Ark can be viewed as a rebuttal to the theology of other Ancient flood stories:

Second video is a fully animated retelling of the Epic of Atrahasis

It's like ancient Assyrian records on Obelisks etc containing accounts of the Assyrian kings interactions with the kings of the Northern kingdom of Israel, but the details differing slightly with the Biblical narrative.

The details of the flood story differ in accordance with whichever religious myths were adhered to by the narrator. Almost like a "competition" of whose God or gods "dunnit", much like the "competition" between whose "prophet" produced the final Revelation of God following the death, resurrection and ascension of Christ, and the "competition" between the Talmud and the New Testament and also between the New Testament and the Koran about whether or not Jesus is the Son of God. It seems to me that the same principle applies. I find the Biblical narrative to be the trustworthy one.

 

[Roger B]

If ancient religions have stories about a massive flood then it undoubtedly happened.

I suspect a real historical event of a massive flood has been combined with some Old Testament Stellar Theology......

Noahs Ark - A Star Ship Enterprise p1 by Prince Arthur, on Flickr

Noahs Ark - A Star Ship Enterprise p2 by Prince Arthur, on Flickr

Noahs Ark - A Star Ship Enterprise p3 by Prince Arthur, on Flickr

Noahs Ark - A Star Ship Enterprise p4 by Prince Arthur, on Flickr

Noahs Ark - A Star Ship Enterprise p5 by Prince Arthur, on Flickr

 

[Radagast]

Because the other sources predate the Bible. Simple.

When you're dealing with oral traditions, that were only later written down, that whole argument fails.

 

[JackRT]

When you're dealing with oral traditions, that were only later written down, that whole argument fails.

In the first few decades of the last century a great deal of research went into trying to understand oral traditions while they were still around to study. This research focused on societies which were largely illiterate. This study was greatly assisted by the use of newly invented sound recording machines. The researchers discovered that the storytellers work from a 'framework' but tailor the narrative to suit the needs and moods of the audience at the time. A story is never told the same way twice but the framework itself remains intact. Once such a story is committed to printit becomes locked in place for all time. Moreover once that has happened it becomes virtually impossible to discern what is framework and what is the story teller's own variation on the theme. This is what has happened in both the Jewish and Christian scriptures. What we are reading are very human documents.

 

[JackRT]

Maybe they are both based on a real event.

There may be several grains of truth to the flood mythology of Noah and similar mythologies from elsewhere in the ancient Middle East. About 30 years ago it was discovered (" Noah's Flood" by Ryan and Pitman) that in antiquity the Black Sea was a freshwater lake with a water level at least 155 meters (510 feet) below its present level. It was cut off from the Mediterranean Sea by a silt plug in the Straits of Bosporus. This plug broke through about 7600 YBP due primarily to the dramatic rise in sea levels caused by the melting that ended the last ice age.. It created an immense waterfall whose sound was most likely audible for 100 or more miles. The Black Sea basin filled to its present level over a period of several weeks. It is estimated that the shore line advanced at the rate of a mile or more per day. For the people living around the lake it was a catastrophe of immense magnitude. It was likely the single most memorable flood in all of human history. The racial memory of this event probably inspired the Gilgamesh epic which in turn inspired the Noah narrative in the Bible. The evidence for this flood is scientifically solid. This prompted the National Geographic Society to finance an underwater search along the ancient shoreline for evidence of pre-flood human habitation. This search has been successful! A settlement has been found at a depth of 90 meters approximately 12 miles off the coast of Turkey. It is in a remarkable state of preservation because it is located in an area of the Black Sea where the water is completely devoid of oxygen with the effect that biological decomposition does not take place. This means that wooden artifacts such as tools, planks, housing beams etc are preserved intact. What is also quite amazing is that while there is solid scientific evidence for this local flood some 7600 YBP, there is no evidence at all for a worldwide flood just 4300 YBP. One would think that a more recent, more catastrophic event would have wiped out evidence of the earlier Black Sea event. There is also evidence for a similar event causing the flooding of the Gulf of Arabia about 10,000 YBP.

 

[Ray Glenn]

It's like ancient Assyrian records on Obelisks etc containing accounts of the Assyrian kings interactions with the kings of the Northern kingdom of Israel, but the details differing slightly with the Biblical narrative.

The details of the flood story differ in accordance with whichever religious myths were adhered to by the narrator. Almost like a "competition" of whose God or gods "dunnit", much like the "competition" between whose "prophet" produced the final Revelation of God following the death, resurrection and ascension of Christ, and the "competition" between the Talmud and the New Testament and also between the New Testament and the Koran about whether or not Jesus is the Son of God. It seems to me that the same principle applies. I find the Biblical narrative to be the trustworthy one.

Considering that the Bible (Old Testament) had been written long before an Islamic Religion. I would not give the Koran much credit over anything. Especially when the Koran was written over a hundred years after Mohammad had died. Compared to the writing s of the Gospel taking place within a few years after the resurrection of Jesus.