Did Noah Save Insects?

[Merlin]

So, what do you make of the fossil record? Why are the animals so much stranger the further down the geological strata we go? And are you ok with animal death before the fall?

About which organisms are alive. Have you thought about other biblical classifications, namely the one beloved of atheists, that bats are a type of bird (Lev 11). Now I don't have a problem with that at all. Categories are arbitrary, it is as legitimate to divide animals into beasts of the field, livestock and creepy crawlies; as it is to classify according to biological relationship. Mountain goats and domesticated goats are the same genus. Yet it is perfectly legitimate to classify them according to another aspect, their relationship to humans, wild or domesticated. Birds and bats fall into the same biblical category as animals with wings. Nothing wrong with that as long as you don't mistake it for our modern classification of birds and think the bible says bats belong to Class Aves. But given we have these biblical classifications, it is worth pointing out that 'birds' includes not only birds and bats, but also locusts, which as an insect without nostrils you are not sure is even alive. It is one thing to place birds and bats in the same category, but non living creatures too?

The Bible doesn't refer to bats as birds though.
Some English translations do.
It is the translator that put them in the same group 'birds'

 

[Assyrian]

True. But the same Hebrew word that means bird, also covers bats and locusts, anything with wings. Which makes it very cumbersome to translate. 'Wings of the air' just sounds odd, and if you use 'bird', which fit 95% of the time, you get bats being called 'birds' which doesn't fit in our English and modern scientific categories. It is a problem of ancient hebrew categories being different, while perfectly legitmate in their own terms.

 

[Sphinx777]

Insects (Class Insecta) are the biggest class of arthropods and the only ones with wings. They are the most diverse group of animals on the planet. They are most diverse at the equator and their diversity declines toward the poles. With over a million described species—more than half of all known living organisms—with estimates of undescribed species as high as 30 million, thus potentially representing over 90% of the differing life forms on the planet. Insects may be found in nearly all environments on the planet, although only a small number of species occur in the oceans, a habitat dominated by another arthropod group, the crustaceans.

There are approximately 2,200 species of praying mantis, 5,000 dragonfly species, 20,000 grasshopper, 82,000 true bug, 120,000 fly, 110,000 bee, wasp ant and sawfly, 170,000 butterfly and moth, and 360,000 beetle species described to date. Estimates of the total number of current species, including those not yet known to science, range from two million to fifty million, with newer studies favouring a lower figure of about six to ten million. Adult modern insects range in size from a 0.139 mm (0.00547 in) fairyfly (Dicopomorpha echmepterygis) to a 56.7 centimetres (22.3 in) long stick insect (Phobaeticus chani). The heaviest documented insect was a Giant Weta of 70 g (2½ oz), but other possible candidates include the Goliath beetles Goliathus goliatus, Goliathus regius and Cerambycid beetles such as Titanus giganteus, though no one is certain which is truly the heaviest.

The study of insects (from Latin insectus, meaning "cut into sections") is called entomology, from the Greek εντομον, also meaning "cut into sections".

 

[juvenissun]

Insects (Class Insecta) are the biggest class of arthropods and the only ones with wings. They are the most diverse group of animals on the planet. They are most diverse at the equator and their diversity declines toward the poles. With over a million described species—more than half of all known living organisms—with estimates of undescribed species as high as 30 million, thus potentially representing over 90% of the differing life forms on the planet. Insects may be found in nearly all environments on the planet, although only a small number of species occur in the oceans, a habitat dominated by another arthropod group, the crustaceans.

There are approximately 2,200 species of praying mantis, 5,000 dragonfly species, 20,000 grasshopper, 82,000 true bug, 120,000 fly, 110,000 bee, wasp ant and sawfly, 170,000 butterfly and moth, and 360,000 beetle species described to date. Estimates of the total number of current species, including those not yet known to science, range from two million to fifty million, with newer studies favouring a lower figure of about six to ten million. Adult modern insects range in size from a 0.139 mm (0.00547 in) fairyfly (Dicopomorpha echmepterygis) to a 56.7 centimetres (22.3 in) long stick insect (Phobaeticus chani). The heaviest documented insect was a Giant Weta of 70 g (2½ oz), but other possible candidates include the Goliath beetles Goliathus goliatus, Goliathus regius and Cerambycid beetles such as Titanus giganteus, though no one is certain which is truly the heaviest.

The study of insects (from Latin insectus, meaning "cut into sections") is called entomology, from the Greek εντομον, also meaning "cut into sections".

Thanks for the nice information. When I read it, a problem surfaced:

Why do insects have so many species? Or, in other words, how could evolution of insects make so many species?

Yes, insects are short-life creatures. So they can go though many more generations and it increases the chance and the rate of evolution. But are there other creatures with even shorter life span? If so, do they have even more species? Is the number of species inversely proportional to the life span? I don't know, but I don't think so.

I know people have studied the mutation of fruit fly and tried to see its evolutional change. But I did not remember any break through news on the discovery of that research. Most likely it did not success on its goal.

Would the vast number of species on insects be another witness of creation?

 

[Assyrian]

The study of insects (from Latin insectus, meaning "cut into sections") is called entomology, from the Greek εντομον, also meaning "cut into sections".[/B]

With a name like that they are just asking for trouble.

It is like shoals of sardines, what do they do when they are surrounded by predators? They form a 'bait ball'. Don't they ever think about the name?

 

[gluadys]

Thanks for the nice information. When I read it, a problem surfaced:

Why do insects have so many species? Or, in other words, how could evolution of insects make so many species?

Probably because they adapt to fit into so many ecological niches. And they often specialize--with different species of closely-related insects specializing in different species of plant food. A single plant can host dozens of different insect communities--in its bark, its roots, its leaves, its fruit. And right next to it a plant of a different species hosts other species of insects which are adapted to it. (That is why interplanting is an effective way to reduce pests in your garden.)

 

[Merlin]

True. But the same Hebrew word that means bird, also covers bats and locusts, anything with wings. Which makes it very cumbersome to translate. 'Wings of the air' just sounds odd, and if you use 'bird', which fit 95% of the time, you get bats being called 'birds' which doesn't fit in our English and modern scientific categories. It is a problem of ancient hebrew categories being different, while perfectly legitmate in their own terms.

that was my point.

 

[juvenissun]

Probably because they adapt to fit into so many ecological niches. And they often specialize--with different species of closely-related insects specializing in different species of plant food. A single plant can host dozens of different insect communities--in its bark, its roots, its leaves, its fruit. And right next to it a plant of a different species hosts other species of insects which are adapted to it. (That is why interplanting is an effective way to reduce pests in your garden.)

If so, may be we could show that the smaller the insects the more species would there be? (the more niches could exist)

I don't think it is true.

 

[gluadys]

If so, may be we could show that the smaller the insects the more species would there be? (the more niches could exist)

I don't think it is true.

I have no idea, but what I would expect is that in any family of insects there would be a range of sizes. Maybe the families with the largest number of species also show more variation in size.

 

[juvenissun]

I have no idea, but what I would expect is that in any family of insects there would be a range of sizes. Maybe the families with the largest number of species also show more variation in size.

Good guess. Hope an entomologist would spring up in this forum.

 

[Ryan the Ninja Goalkeeper]

Of course Noah sae insects! They are afterall, still here aren't they and bees are so important to our world (quite possible nothing would grow).

 

[JerryL]

Fish are generally good at not drowning.

I just about rolled out of my chair.

 

[rockytriton]

Fish are generally good at not drowning.

While this is a funny argument, rain is freshwater, all sea animals would have died because their body needs to be kept at a certain salinity. I can't help but wonder where he would store two blue whales.

I think the more important question would be: why did Noah save the 3 toed sloth???

 

[Sphinx777]

why did Noah save the 3 toed sloth???

The three-toed sloths are the only members of the Bradypus genus and the Bradypodidae family. Although similar to the somewhat larger and generally faster moving two-toed sloths, the two genera are not particularly closely related. Both types of sloth tend to occupy the same forests: in most areas, a particular single species of three-toed sloth and a single species of the larger two-toed type will jointly predominate. Famously slow-moving, the sloth travels at a top speed of 0.15 mph. Although they are quite slow in trees, three-toed sloths are agile swimmers. The offspring cling to their mother's bellies for around 9 months or so. They cannot walk on all four, therefore, they must use their front arms and claws to drag themselves across the tropical rain forest floor. Scientists do not know exactly when these mammals mate, but it is estimated to be somewhere around March or February. The three-toed sloth is almost totally arboreal ("tree-dwelling"), with a body "built to hang." It lives in the shrub or lower tree layer, but sometimes moves to the canopy. Its long, coarse, grayish-brown fur often appears greenish, not due to pigment but to algae growing on it. The sloth’s greenish color and its sluggish habits provide an effective camouflage: hanging quietly, the sloth resembles a bundle of leaves. Large curved claws help the sloth to keep a strong grip on tree branches.

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[rockytriton]

thank you for that elaborate description, my point was that they are ugly, why would he save them??? (it was a joke)