Did Mary ever need forgiveness of sin?

[narnia59]

Why is it necessary for Mary to have been born without original to bear Jesus without original sin. If Mary could have been born without original sin, why not Jesus?

It is not necessary for Mary to have been born without original sin in order to bear Jesus without original sin.

 

[narnia59]

hey Philothei and Orthocat -- I'm pretty sure its Orthodox teaching that Christ DID assume the pre-fallen nature, but that He also assumed the blameless consequences of sin such as hunger, need to sleep, etc. This is the distinction between Him and the Theotokos - she never committed any personal sins but Christ was wholly without sin including without the fallen nature that inclines us towards sins. Otherwise her sinlessness and His are the same.

Do you have anything definitive that explains this as Orthodox teaching?

From what I can tell, some teach Christ was born with unfallen human nature, others that he was born with fallen human nature. And both claim their view as being 'Orthodox teaching'.

 

[Philothei]

https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&...RdSC78&sig=AHIEtbTLqY_ZgZQ3OFZNdiMOYt-gEqo9Jw

According to St. Maximus Christ assumed everything "that man is" the corruptible nature of his. He assumed his weakness and corrubtibility.

That is why St. Maximus said that what was accomplished by Christ was
from Being to well being to eternal being.... I could not copy and paste this is a pdf file.

 

[chris4243]

Did Mary ever need forgiveness of sin?

Maybe another human like her could have been the sinless sacrifice instead of God having to come down and do it Himself? Maybe at least a few humans could earn their own salvation by leading sinless lives? Or maybe not.

 

[jckstraw72]

https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&...RdSC78&sig=AHIEtbTLqY_ZgZQ3OFZNdiMOYt-gEqo9Jw

According to St. Maximus Christ assumed everything "that man is" the corruptible nature of his. He assumed his weakness and corrubtibility.

That is why St. Maximus said that what was accomplished by Christ was
from Being to well being to eternal being.... I could not copy and paste this is a pdf file.

but Christ did not assume the inclination towards sin, the darkened nous, etc that are products of the Fall. He assumed the bodily weaknesses but not the spiritual ones.

 

[mathetes123]

Even of original sins?

There is nothing in the Bible to indicate that Mary did not inherit original sin or that Mary was sinless as the Catholics believe.

 

[mathetes123]

Maybe another human like her could have been the sinless sacrifice instead of God having to come down and do it Himself? Maybe at least a few humans could earn their own salvation by leading sinless lives? Or maybe not.

The Bible says there is none righteous, not one. Only Jesus lived a sinless life.

 

[Dorothea]

Hey, Philothei, narnia, and jck, I found this on Mystagogy with regards to Christ's NOT assuming the fallen human nature, but the pre-fallen nature of humans. Read here:

MYSTAGOGY

 

[jckstraw72]

i was JUST about to post that!

 

[Dorothea]

i was JUST about to post that!

 

[jackmt]

The Bible says there is none righteous, not one. Only Jesus lived a sinless life.

Even Mary called herself a sinner. Was she being falsely humble? Then she sinned. Nothing in Scripture prophesies a virgin born of a virgin. If She had to be so special or if God wanted her elevated to such status as the RCC et al have her, where is the evidence or call for it in Scripture?

Mary was a nice Jewish girl conceived and born in the usual method, and who had at least 7 children after giving birth to Jesus.

 

[Ortho_Cat]

Even Mary called herself a sinner. Was she being falsely humble? Then she sinned. Nothing in Scripture prophesies a virgin born of a virgin. If She had to be so special or if God wanted elevated to such status as the RCC et al have, where is the evidence in Scripture? Mary was a nice Jewish girl conceived and born in the usual method, and who had at least 7 children after giving birth to Jesus.

chapter and verse?

 

[jackmt]

I can't seem to find it at the moment. But certainly it was implicit in her need for a savior. Lk.1:47 and in Romans "All have sinned..." I am sure I have read it. I may be wrong. I will get back to you.

 

[Standing Up]

chapter and verse?

Wasn't it by definition per the Law? Childbirth, she had to present an offering.

 

[Ave Maria]

Nope, she was conceived without sin. However, this does not mean that she did not need a savior. Indeed, her savior is her own Son, Jesus Christ. However, she needed a savior in that Jesus Christ saved her from even being conceived with sin.

 

[jackmt]

Nope, she was conceived without sin. However, this does not mean that she did not need a savior. Indeed, her savior is her own Son, Jesus Christ. However, she needed a savior in that Jesus Christ saved her from even being conceived with sin.

Chapter and verse? Isaiah 7:14 says "...a virgin shall conceive and bear a son." Where in Scripture is it prophesied that that virgin would be immaculately conceived?

 

[Ortho_Cat]

Wasn't it by definition per the Law? Childbirth, she had to present an offering.

is childbirth a sin?

 

[Standing Up]

is childbirth a sin?

Luke tries to explain it to us. It is what it is, whether scripture fits tradition or not.

Lk. 2:22 And when the days of her purification according to the law of Moses were accomplished, they brought him to Jerusalem, to present [him] to the Lord;
v23 (As it is written in the law of the Lord, Every male that openeth the womb shall be called holy to the Lord
v24 And to offer a sacrifice according to that which is said in the law of the Lord, A pair of turtledoves, or two young pigeons.