Did Mary ever need forgiveness of sin?

visionary · Dec 15, 2011

Even of original sins?

Kristos · Dec 15, 2011

An strangely worded question. Mary did need a savior if that's what you are asking, just like Abraham.

xfisherman · Dec 15, 2011

visionary said:
Even of original sins?

Wasn't she also a human being?

Standing Up · Dec 15, 2011

visionary said:
Even of original sins?

IIRC---

RC answers no. She was free of original sin and lifetime sin. But for some reason she still needed a saviour.

EO answers yes, but there was something special about her. She still needed a saviour.

P answers yes, she did make an offering for example. She needed a saviour like everyone else.

emily_elizabeth · Dec 15, 2011

Of course, she was human and needed a savior just like the rest of us.

Philothei · Dec 16, 2011

yes she was human not of divine nature or something in between.... She was in need of a Saviour her Son. She was a special person and saint and she was "called blessed among all women" that is a distinction of honor. She was "set apart" if that is how maybe the Protestant would understand this

Otherwise I do not think that she was any different that anyone else in her humanity. It is the degree of her piety that distinguishes her.

narnia59 · Dec 16, 2011

Standing Up said:
IIRC---

RC answers no. She was free of original sin and lifetime sin. But for some reason she still needed a saviour.

I have never understood why it's so hard to understand the concept that God does not have to wait for someone to sin in order to save them from sin. To believe otherwise is to suggest that God is somehow limited by time.

cajunhillbilly · Dec 16, 2011

Philothei said:
yes she was human not of divine nature or something in between.... She was in need of a Saviour her Son. She was a special person and saint and she was "called blessed among all women" that is a distinction of honor. She was "set apart" if that is how maybe the Protestant would understand this

Otherwise I do not think that she was any different that anyone else in her humanity. It is the degree of her piety that distinguishes her.

I would agree with you on this topic. That seems to be a Biblical perspective.

visionary · Dec 16, 2011

narnia59 said:
I have never understood why it's so hard to understand the concept that God does not have to wait for someone to sin in order to save them from sin. To believe otherwise is to suggest that God is somehow limited by time.

Now that is interesting.. and I agree..

narnia59 · Dec 16, 2011

visionary said:
Now that is interesting.. and I agree..

All Marian doctrines are Christo-centric -- they teach us about the nature of Christ.

The doctrine of the Immaculate Conception of Mary reflects the divinity of Christ's nature as we understand that God is preparing his dwelling place in the flesh with the same care he prepared his dwelling place among the Israelites -- consecrated and set apart.

It reflects the humanity of Christ in that Christ followed all the Father's commands perfectly, holding nothing back. One of those commands was to honor his mother, and he honored her by refusing to let Satan touch her. He indeed saved her from sin, just as the dogma of the Immaculate Conception states -- " in virtue of the merits of Jesus Christ, the Saviour of mankind".

This does not mean that Mary's free will was denied her and that she could not sin. It does mean that she was enabled by grace in a special way to not sin, and she cooperated with that grace.

It's really not complicated at all.

visionary · Dec 16, 2011

Did she tempt Yeshua when she pushed the waiters on Him during the wedding feast?

narnia59 · Dec 16, 2011

visionary said:
Did she tempt Yeshua when she pushed the waiters on Him during the wedding feast?

I would say that implication is pushing a lot into the text that is not there.

If she 'tempted' him, and since he complied with her request, are you suggesting he succombed to her temptation and sinned?

visionary · Dec 16, 2011

There is something in the text that there was an issue of Yeshua would not have spoken to her the way that He did. She ignored Him and pushed. Not that it lead to sin, but that it exposed something Yeshua was not ready to reveal.

Kristos · Dec 16, 2011

there are many instances where importunate supplications succeed because of their persistence - even annoyance. Why? Hard to say, but it must be salvific in some way because certainly God knows already

narnia59 · Dec 16, 2011

visionary said:
There is something in the text that there was an issue of Yeshua would not have spoken to her the way that He did. She ignored Him and pushed. Not that it lead to sin, but that it exposed something Yeshua was not ready to reveal.

The idea that Mary could force Jesus into revealing something he was not ready to reveal? I don't think so.

When Mary tells the waiters to do whatever Jesus tells them, he simply could have told them to go back to their work if he himself did not want to move forward. Then it would have ended with the conclusion that you seem to believe Jesus wanted -- nothing to happen. But that is quite obviously not what he wanted to happen, because he chose to move forward.

I would suggest looking for a deeper meaning in that text. Perhaps you might consider some of the translations that render "What has that to do with us?", or "What has that to do with you and me" as opposed to "What do I have to do with you".

narnia59 · Dec 16, 2011

Kristos said:
there are many instances where importunate supplications succeed because of their persistence - even annoyance. Why? Hard to say, but it must be salvific in some way because certainly God knows already

I agree with that, but I don't think that's what happening at Cana.

I think that Mary and Jesus both know exactly what is at stake, and she is not asking him for something he is not willing to give. He knows exactly what this has to do with them. He's marking the point in time for her, for the consequence of this will set him on the road to Calvary. Her "do whatever he tells you" is her assent to the road he must take, and her willingness to follow him all the way to the cross.

My two cents on what's going on there.

visionary · Dec 16, 2011

“And Mary said, My soul doth magnify the Lord, And my spirit hath rejoiced in God my Saviour. For he that is mighty hath done to me great things; and holy is his name.” Luke 1:46-47, 49 KJV

Mary has a Savior!!!

Standing Up · Dec 16, 2011

visionary said:
And Mary said, My soul doth magnify the Lord, And my spirit hath rejoiced in God my Saviour. For he that is mighty hath done to me great things; and holy is his name. Luke 1:46-47, 49 KJV

Mary has a Savior!!!

Those who have sinned know they need a saviour.

1 Jn 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

miamited · Dec 16, 2011

hi visionary,

I don't know what Mary's sin or sins may have been in this life, but yes, I find no reason that she wasn't intended when the prophet wrote, "For all have sinned and fall short of God's glory." And yes her own testimony was that she had a Savior.

God bless you.
In Christ, Ted

Standing Up · Dec 16, 2011

visionary said:
Did she tempt Yeshua when she pushed the waiters on Him during the wedding feast?

Interesting the definition---mother of Jesus.

It's odd He says My hour hasn't come and then does the miracle anyway. Perhaps the explanation is He was waiting for a specific moment, say sunset about 6pm, and she spoke about 3pm.

Did Mary ever need forgiveness of sin?

Your God is my God... Ruth said, so say I.

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