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Did John Calvin Make Heaven?

rockytopva

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Thou hast a few names even in Sardis which have not defiled their garments; and they shall walk with me in white: for they are worthy. - Revelation 3:4

Did John Calvin defile his garments in toasting Michael Servetus?

“Neither God nor his Spirit have counselled such an action. Christ did not treat those who negated him that way.” - Italian poet Camillo Renato on the Servetus execution

“To kill a man is not to protect a doctrine, but it is to kill a man.” - French humanist Sébastien Chateillon on the Servetus execution

“I consider it a serious matter to kill men because they are in error on some question of scriptural interpretation, when we know that even the elect ones may be led astray into error.” - Michael Servetus

In 1908 a monument to Servetus was erected in the French city of Annemasse, some three miles [5 km] from the spot where he died. An inscription reads: “Michel Servetus, . . . geographer, physician, physiologist, contributed to the welfare of humanity by his scientific discoveries, his devotion to the sick and the poor, and the indomitable independence of his intelligence and his conscience. . . . His convictions were invincible. He made a sacrifice of his life for the cause of the truth.”

And to try to bail himself out of hot water Calvin says... "Whoever shall maintain that wrong is done to heretics and blasphemers in punishing them makes himself an accomplice in their crime and guilty as they are. There is no question here of man's authority; it is God who speaks, and clear it is what law he will have kept in the church, even to the end of the world. Wherefore does he demand of us a so extreme severity, if not to show us that due honor is not paid him, so long as we set not his service above every human consideration, so that we spare not kin, nor blood of any, and forget all humanity when the matter is to combat for His glory."

It seemed like Calvin himself would pay for such criminal deeds as his health receded in his fifties.

Fatally ill, and with blood flowing from his mouth, the 54 year-old pastor-theologian was carried to Saint Pierre in a chair. He was a man acquainted with pain. He suffered from terrible hemorrhoids, asthma, kidney stones, pulmonary tuberculosis, and gout. Fever was a consistent companion, and now he had ruptured blood vessels in his lungs due to his violent coughing spells. This same month he wrote of his tribulations to the doctors of Montpellier:

"But at that time [20 years ago] I was not attacked by gout, knew nothing of the stone or the gravel, was not tormented with the gripings of colic nor afflicted with piles nor threatened with haemorrhages. At present all these enemies charge me like troops. As soon as I recovered from a quartan fever, I was taken with severe and acute pains in my calves, which, after being partly relieved, returned a second and then third time. At last they turned into a disease of the joints, which spread from my feet to my knees. An ulcer in the haemorrhoid veins long tortured me ..." - John Calvin

I think Calvin messed up big time in having Servetus executed. Possibly even to the extent to his immortal soul.
 

drstevej

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Purpose Statement said:
Biographical discussions of historical church theologians or clergymen are to be carried out in the Christian History forum.

Move this to the proper forum and I'll address this.
 
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rockytopva

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If I may highlight the mean spiritness that can come on people who get carried away in their theology, even to the point of hating those who disagree with them. And like the Pharisees, seeking to protect their profession and ministry, can persecute and even kill those who stand in the way.

This can even be true among the Arminians, who, when striving to build a denomination, can become just as evil as those whom they rebelled from.
 
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nobdysfool

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If I may highlight the mean spiritness that can come on people who get carried away in their theology, even to the point of hating those who disagree with them. And like the Pharisees, seeking to protect their profession and ministry, can persecute and even kill those who stand in the way.

This can even be true among the Arminians, who, when striving to build a denomination, can become just as evil as those whom they rebelled from.

Nothing mean-spirited about moving the thread to the proper forum. And since most Calvinists do not actually literally follow Calvin, this is nothing more than barking at the moon. An attempt to stir up trouble. Bye!
 
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Albion

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I've always wondered why so much is made of the Servetus execution. I mean, it's not as though Calvin himself took a knife to Servetus in a fit of rage. So it's one victim--and I do indeed consider this a low point in the history of the Reformation--whereas most of the other churches and popes and rulers acting in the interests of their preferred denominations accounted for thousands of victims...and they usually are exonerated or at least treated better than Calvin is over the Servetus matter.


Thou hast a few names even in Sardis which have not defiled their garments; and they shall walk with me in white: for they are worthy. - Revelation 3:4

Did John Calvin defile his garments in toasting Michael Servetus?

“Neither God nor his Spirit have counselled such an action. Christ did not treat those who negated him that way.” - Italian poet Camillo Renato on the Servetus execution

“To kill a man is not to protect a doctrine, but it is to kill a man.” - French humanist Sébastien Chateillon on the Servetus execution

“I consider it a serious matter to kill men because they are in error on some question of scriptural interpretation, when we know that even the elect ones may be led astray into error.” - Michael Servetus

In 1908 a monument to Servetus was erected in the French city of Annemasse, some three miles [5 km] from the spot where he died. An inscription reads: “Michel Servetus, . . . geographer, physician, physiologist, contributed to the welfare of humanity by his scientific discoveries, his devotion to the sick and the poor, and the indomitable independence of his intelligence and his conscience. . . . His convictions were invincible. He made a sacrifice of his life for the cause of the truth.”

And to try to bail himself out of hot water Calvin says... "Whoever shall maintain that wrong is done to heretics and blasphemers in punishing them makes himself an accomplice in their crime and guilty as they are. There is no question here of man's authority; it is God who speaks, and clear it is what law he will have kept in the church, even to the end of the world. Wherefore does he demand of us a so extreme severity, if not to show us that due honor is not paid him, so long as we set not his service above every human consideration, so that we spare not kin, nor blood of any, and forget all humanity when the matter is to combat for His glory."

It seemed like Calvin himself would pay for such criminal deeds as his health receded in his fifties.

Fatally ill, and with blood flowing from his mouth, the 54 year-old pastor-theologian was carried to Saint Pierre in a chair. He was a man acquainted with pain. He suffered from terrible hemorrhoids, asthma, kidney stones, pulmonary tuberculosis, and gout. Fever was a consistent companion, and now he had ruptured blood vessels in his lungs due to his violent coughing spells. This same month he wrote of his tribulations to the doctors of Montpellier:

"But at that time [20 years ago] I was not attacked by gout, knew nothing of the stone or the gravel, was not tormented with the gripings of colic nor afflicted with piles nor threatened with haemorrhages. At present all these enemies charge me like troops. As soon as I recovered from a quartan fever, I was taken with severe and acute pains in my calves, which, after being partly relieved, returned a second and then third time. At last they turned into a disease of the joints, which spread from my feet to my knees. An ulcer in the haemorrhoid veins long tortured me ..." - John Calvin

I think Calvin messed up big time in having Servetus executed. Possibly even to the extent to his immortal soul.
 
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childofdust

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I think the better question is whether, once Calvin got to heaven, he would have rejected the god he saw there because that god was nothing whatsoever like the one he served.

Dear John (An Open Letter To John Calvin)

"To be blunt, as a Christian, I don’t recognize your God and I have no clue what the good news is in the Institutes. . . . As a fellow Christian I know this might be a little hard to hear, but you deal surprisingly little with what Jesus himself actually had to say. Sure, you talk about his role in salvation plenty, but when it comes to supporting your various claims, you seem to quote everybody but Jesus."

That last bit surprised me since I base pretty much everything I think about Christianity off what Yeshua said and did. Pretty much anything I've ever written about my faith was based extensively on Christ himself as portrayed in the gospels. No wonder I'm not a Calvinist. I follow Yeshua.
 
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Albion

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I don't have any reason to think that Calvin was insincere and didn't actually trust Christ for his salvation. But of course the question can't really be answered since none of us knows for sure who has "made it to heaven" and who has not.
 
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rockytopva

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Was this not the fate of John Calvin?


2 Chronicles 21:5-19


5 Jehoram was thirty and two years old when he began to reign, and he reigned eight years in Jerusalem.
6 And he walked in the way of the kings of Israel, like as did the house of Ahab: for he had the daughter of Ahab to wife: and he wrought that which was evil in the eyes of the Lord.
12 And there came a writing to him from Elijah the prophet, saying, Thus saith the Lord God of David thy father, Because thou hast not walked in the ways of Jehoshaphat thy father, nor in the ways of Asa king of Judah,
13 But hast walked in the way of the kings of Israel, and hast made Judah and the inhabitants of Jerusalem to go a whoring, like to the whoredoms of the house of Ahab, and also hast slain thy brethren of thy father's house, which were better than thyself:
14 Behold, with a great plague will the Lord smite thy people, and thy children, and thy wives, and all thy goods:
15 And thou shalt have great sickness by disease of thy bowels, until thy bowels fall out by reason of the sickness day by day.
18 And after all this the Lord smote him in his bowels with an incurable disease.
19 And it came to pass, that in process of time, after the end of two years, his bowels fell out by reason of his sickness: so he died of sore diseases. And his people made no burning for him, like the burning of his fathers.
 
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Hammster

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Was this not the fate of John Calvin?


2 Chronicles 21:5-19


5 Jehoram was thirty and two years old when he began to reign, and he reigned eight years in Jerusalem.
6 And he walked in the way of the kings of Israel, like as did the house of Ahab: for he had the daughter of Ahab to wife: and he wrought that which was evil in the eyes of the Lord.
12 And there came a writing to him from Elijah the prophet, saying, Thus saith the Lord God of David thy father, Because thou hast not walked in the ways of Jehoshaphat thy father, nor in the ways of Asa king of Judah,
13 But hast walked in the way of the kings of Israel, and hast made Judah and the inhabitants of Jerusalem to go a whoring, like to the whoredoms of the house of Ahab, and also hast slain thy brethren of thy father's house, which were better than thyself:
14 Behold, with a great plague will the Lord smite thy people, and thy children, and thy wives, and all thy goods:
15 And thou shalt have great sickness by disease of thy bowels, until thy bowels fall out by reason of the sickness day by day.
18 And after all this the Lord smote him in his bowels with an incurable disease.
19 And it came to pass, that in process of time, after the end of two years, his bowels fell out by reason of his sickness: so he died of sore diseases. And his people made no burning for him, like the burning of his fathers.

I'm pretty sure Calvin wasn't alive then. I don't think he was Jewish, either.
 
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Albion

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Man, I just got nailed on another thread for saying that Martin Luther didn't know what he was doing..

Some of us have read that thread, Vince, so we know what you wrote about Luther...and it wasn't that "he didn't know what he was doing." And the problem was also that you didn't just denigrate Luther but Christians as a whole.
 
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Vince53

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I stated somewhat unclearly that salvation is only through faith in Christ, and I stand by that statement. The Scriptures tell us that salvation is only through Jesús; not through good works, sacraments, religion, or infant sprinkling.

In his 95 Theses, Luther showed a poor understanding of salvation. He plainly stated that forgiveness is usually impossible without a priest.

As a group, the Protestant Reformers were heavily-trained in bad theology, and the theology they produced shows it. That does not change the fact that they were in difficult situations that they were not trained to deal with. Furthermore, they were not to blame for these difficulties. Nor does it change the fact that they did a lot of good despite these difficulties.
 
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Archie the Preacher

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John Calvin did some things that are currently 'not approved'. It is reported Bro. Calvin was difficult in personality and not very likable as a person. It is suggested - with some grounds - he ran Geneva with a harsh and unkindly base line.
So what?

Martin Luther, 'father' of the Reformation was a staunch anti-Semite. He hated Jews.
So what?

Jimmy Swaggart has been caught with prostitutes (or was that protestants?) twice. Actual score unknown.
So what?

According to the Apostle Paul in Ephesians 2:8, those who are saved by Him are saved by His grace, not by 'works' (good deeds done to score brownie points with God).

One presumes that Bro. Calvin, Bro. Luther and Bro. Swaggart all three claim a relationship with God through Jesus Christ - the basis of 'salvation' - on the grounds of God's Grace and gift. I don't think any of the three claimed they were so good, so pure, so 'nifty' that God just couldn't bear the thought of Eternity without them.

I suppose I could be wrong about that.

The New Testament reports the words of Jesus saying, (in John's Gospel, ch 10, vv 28-29) I give them eternal life, and they will never perish; no one will snatch them from my hand. 10:29 My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all, and no one can snatch them from my Father’s hand. The term 'no one' is not qualified, therefore I conclude even the sinner himself cannot remove himself from God's hand.

So, to the question: If John Calvin accepted the free offer of Jesus' grace and surrendered to God's will as a follower of God through Jesus, then John Calvin is in Heaven. If not... sad.

One might suppose the misery Bro. Calvin suffered in his later life could be the 'chastisement' of Almighty God for things Bro. Calvin did out of God's will. I'm not sure about Martin Luther. I know ol' Jimmy got the tar whupped out of him a couple times.

However, misery on Earth should NOT be mistaken for Eternal punishment. Read Job. If physical misfortune demonstrated God's rejection, eleven of the original twelve disciples show as 'rejected'.
 
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