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Brother, happy Sabbath! So... is that a Yes? The man would have inherited eternal life even if he had disregarded the tithing commandment in Deuteronomy 26?Brother, happy Sabbath! Yes, Judaism even sabotaged the minimum Ten Commandments with the "human effort" of their human traditions.
“Why do your disciples disobey our age-old tradition? For they ignore our tradition of ceremonial hand washing before they eat.” Jesus replied, “And why do you, by your traditions, violate the direct commandments of God? For instance, God says, ‘Honor your father and mother,’ and ‘Anyone who speaks disrespectfully of father or mother must be put to death.’ But you say it is all right for people to say to their parents, ‘Sorry, I can’t help you. For I have vowed to give to God what I would have given to you.’ In this way, you say they don’t need to honor their parents. And so you cancel the word of God for the sake of your own tradition. You hypocrites! Isaiah was right when he prophesied about you, for he wrote, ‘These people honor me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me. Their worship is a farce, for they teach man-made ideas as commands from God.’” (Matthew 15:2-9 NLT)
Jesus expects more of us now that we have the exemplary life of Jesus to "follow" in the Eleventh Commandment that was not possible before Jesus, plus God's law set in stone free from Judaism's sabotaging "human effort" for us to surpass their righteousness. The following passage shows that some do less and others do more.
“Don’t misunderstand why I have come. I did not come to abolish the law of Moses or the writings of the prophets. No, I came to accomplish their purpose. I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not even the smallest detail of God’s law will disappear until its purpose is achieved. So if you ignore the least commandment (entolé) and teach others to do the same, you will be called the least in the Kingdom of Heaven. But anyone who obeys God’s laws and teaches them will be called great in the Kingdom of Heaven. “But I warn you—unless your righteousness is better than the righteousness of the teachers of religious law and the Pharisees, you will never enter the Kingdom of Heaven! (Matthew 5:17-20 NLT)
The same unique word below for the Eleven Commandments is used above for the least commandment.
Once a religious leader asked Jesus this question: “Good Teacher, what should I do to inherit eternal life?” “Why do you call me good?” Jesus asked him. “Only God is truly good. But to answer your question, you know the commandments (entolé): ‘You must not commit adultery. You must not murder. You must not steal. You must not testify falsely. Honor your father and mother.’” The man replied, “I’ve obeyed all these commandments since I was young.” When Jesus heard his answer, he said, “There is still one thing you haven’t done. Sell all your possessions and give the money to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me.” (Luke 18:18-22 NLT)
United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge
Brother, yes! One can not disregard tithing because that is stealing from God in the minimum Ten Commandments, but the other requirements do not break the stealing commandment if left undone before Jesus. After Jesus, however, we have to "follow" Jesus' example, in the Eleventh Commandment, who obeyed all of the laws of God, except the human laws of Judaism that are in contradiction to the law of God. Jesus expects more with the new minimum Eleven Commandments than with the previous minimum Ten Commandments.Brother, happy Sabbath! So... is that a Yes? The man would have inherited eternal life even if he had disregarded the tithing commandment in Deuteronomy 26? United in gaining wisdom from the law!
Brother, happy Sabbath! Are you saying that all the man has to do is take the tithe to the storehouse and leave it there? He doesn't have to do the other things such as share it with the fatherless and the widow as is commanded in Deuteronomy 26?Brother, yes! One can not disregard tithing because that is stealing from God in the minimum Ten Commandments, but the other requirements do not break the stealing commandment if left undone before Jesus. After Jesus, however, we have to "follow" Jesus' example, in the Eleventh Commandment, who obeyed all of the laws of God, except the human laws of Judaism that are in contradiction to the law of God. Jesus expects more with the new minimum Eleven Commandments than with the previous minimum Ten Commandments.
Once a religious leader asked Jesus this question: “Good Teacher, what should I do to inherit eternal life?” “Why do you call me good?” Jesus asked him. “Only God is truly good. But to answer your question, you know the commandments (entolé): ‘You must not commit adultery. You must not murder. You must not steal. You must not testify falsely. Honor your father and mother.’” The man replied, “I’ve obeyed all these commandments since I was young.” When Jesus heard his answer, he said, “There is still one thing you haven’t done. Sell all your possessions and give the money to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me.” (Luke 18:18-22 NLT)
United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge
Brother, yes! Do you remember in school the concept of extra credit by teachers who offered grace? If you did poorly in a class in terms of your grade and wanted to redeem your grade, you took extra credit to raise your grade, taking advantage of the grace that your teachers offered you. Jesus is telling us in the following passage that Judaism did not even encourage, with their human traditions, meeting the minimum requirements of the Ten Commandments. However, God gave them a lot of extra credit if they really wanted to follow God's word to separate sin from their character, making up for the sabotaging "human effort" of their human traditions in contradiction to the word of God.Brother, happy Sabbath! Are you saying that all the man has to do is take the tithe to the storehouse and leave it there? He doesn't have to do the other things such as share it with the fatherless and the widow as is commanded in Deuteronomy 26? United in searching the scriptures!
Brother, may you rejoice in the Lord always! If the man doesn't give his tithe to the right people, does that still count as tithing, in your view? Can the man just give a tenth of his animals and a tenth of his harvest wherever he decides?Brother, yes! Do you remember in school the concept of extra credit by teachers who offered grace? If you did poorly in a class in terms of your grade and wanted to redeem your grade, you took extra credit to raise your grade, taking advantage of the grace that your teachers offered you. Jesus is telling us in the following passage that Judaism did not even encourage, with their human traditions, meeting the minimum requirements of the Ten Commandments. However, God gave them a lot of extra credit if they really wanted to follow God's word to separate sin from their character, making up for the sabotaging "human effort" of their human traditions in contradiction to the word of God.
“Why do your disciples disobey our age-old tradition? For they ignore our tradition of ceremonial hand washing before they eat.” Jesus replied, “And why do you, by your traditions, violate the direct commandments of God? For instance, God says, ‘Honor your father and mother,’ and ‘Anyone who speaks disrespectfully of father or mother must be put to death.’ But you say it is all right for people to say to their parents, ‘Sorry, I can’t help you. For I have vowed to give to God what I would have given to you.’ In this way, you say they don’t need to honor their parents. And so you cancel the word of God for the sake of your own tradition. You hypocrites! Isaiah was right when he prophesied about you, for he wrote, ‘These people honor me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me. Their worship is a farce, for they teach man-made ideas as commands from God.’” (Matthew 15:2-9 NLT)
United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge
Brother, I send my tithe every week to my local Spanish Seventh Day Adventist Church through the adventistgiving.org website. However, I have a friend who is also an Adventist who recently told me that he sent his tithe to a pastor within his extended family in Cuba to help a relative he speaks with who is going through a difficult time. I would only feel comfortable giving God's tithes to my church to continue to have God's blessing and, for such help, I would use my own money.Brother, may you rejoice in the Lord always! If the man doesn't give his tithe to the right people, does that still count as tithing, in your view? Can the man just give a tenth of his animals and a tenth of his harvest wherever he decides? United in rejoicing in the Lord!
Brother, may you rejoice in the Lord always! If you are saying that we get to give our tithe to whoever we decide to, that is good to know!Brother, I send my tithe every week to my local Spanish Seventh Day Adventist Church through the adventistgiving.org website. However, I have a friend who is also an Adventist who recently told me that he sent his tithe to a pastor within his extended family in Cuba to help a relative he speaks with who is going through a difficult time. I would only feel comfortable giving God's tithes to my church to continue to have God's blessing and, for such help, I would use my own money.
“I am the LORD, and I do not change. That is why you descendants of Jacob are not already destroyed. Ever since the days of your ancestors, you have scorned my decrees and failed to obey them. Now return to me, and I will return to you,” says the LORD of Heaven’s Armies. “But you ask, ‘How can we return when we have never gone away?’ “Should people cheat God? Yet you have cheated me! “But you ask, ‘What do you mean? When did we ever cheat you?’ “You have cheated me of the tithes and offerings due to me. You are under a curse, for your whole nation has been cheating me. Bring all the tithes into the storehouse so there will be enough food in my Temple. If you do,” says the LORD of Heaven’s Armies, “I will open the windows of heaven for you. I will pour out a blessing so great you won’t have enough room to take it in! Try it! Put me to the test! Your crops will be abundant, for I will guard them from insects and disease. Your grapes will not fall from the vine before they are ripe,” says the LORD of Heaven’s Armies. “Then all nations will call you blessed, for your land will be such a delight,” says the LORD of Heaven’s Armies. (Malachi 3:6-12 NLT)
United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge
Brother, no! I would definitely not say that you can give it to whoever you want to. What I can say is that you can "test" the LORD with the tithe. He allows you to "test" Him on this. If you are not blessed, then you are not tithing as God wants you to tithe.Brother, may you rejoice in the Lord always! If you are saying that we get to give our tithe to whoever we decide to, that is good to know! United in the bond of the Peace of the Lord!
Brother, may you rejoice in the Lord always! That test would work if the wicked never prospered. Psalm 73 saysBrother, no! I would definitely not say that you can give it to whoever you want to. What I can say is that you can "test" the LORD with the tithe. He allows you to "test" Him on this. If you are not blessed, then you are not tithing as God wants you to tithe.
“I am the LORD, and I do not change. That is why you descendants of Jacob are not already destroyed. Ever since the days of your ancestors, you have scorned my decrees and failed to obey them. Now return to me, and I will return to you,” says the LORD of Heaven’s Armies. “But you ask, ‘How can we return when we have never gone away?’ “Should people cheat God? Yet you have cheated me! “But you ask, ‘What do you mean? When did we ever cheat you?’ “You have cheated me of the tithes and offerings due to me. You are under a curse, for your whole nation has been cheating me. Bring all the tithes into the storehouse so there will be enough food in my Temple. If you do,” says the LORD of Heaven’s Armies, “I will open the windows of heaven for you. I will pour out a blessing so great you won’t have enough room to take it in! Try it! Put me to the test! Your crops will be abundant, for I will guard them from insects and disease. Your grapes will not fall from the vine before they are ripe,” says the LORD of Heaven’s Armies. “Then all nations will call you blessed, for your land will be such a delight,” says the LORD of Heaven’s Armies. (Malachi 3:6-12 NLT)
United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge
Can you share why Jesus never call Mary “Mother” in the scripture that cannot be broken?Since Jesus obeyed the previous Ten Commandments and we are to "follow" His example in the new Eleventh Commandment, all the previous Ten Commandments are included in the new Eleventh Commandment.
The Ten Commandments were not given in the time of Hagar. How would humans sabotage them before they existed?The reason the old way led to death is because Judaism's "human effort" sabotaged the Ten Commandments to not show the fulfillment of God's promise to remove sin, as in the story of Hagar, explained by Jesus in the following passage.
In this case, don’t you think any church organization's doctrines are also unnecessary? If doctrines are derived from the scripture, they are redundant. But if doctrines are human interpretations of the scripture, then they are human efforts.For example, so as not to misuse God's name, Judaism invented their own rule not to pronounce God's name at all. These human rules of avoidance do not show the removal of sin. Sin is shown removed by obeying the current Eleven Commandments, where the effort is made and not avoided to not misuse His name. Jesus opposed the human rules of Judaism, saying that they were human traditions of "blind guides". The problem with Judaism is not in doing what God asked of them but that they sabotage the Ten Commandments of God with their own human rules when they are "blind guides" to use human rules effectively to show the removal of sin, unlike Jesus who does know how to show the removal of sin through His Eleven Commandments. God shows the separation of sin from our character through His Ten Commandments! What Judaism has not understood is that not just any human rule will show the removal of sin from our character, but only the Ten Commandments given by someone who knows how to show the removal of sin from our character. Therefore, human rules will not show the separation of sin from our character because we are "blind guides" and only God's Ten Commandments can show the separation of sin from our character, because He is not a "blind guide" to show the removal of sin from our character. Sin Jesus showed removed through His Ten Commandments and now more under the new covenant's Eleven Commandments.
Brother, Jesus did many other things that were not all written down. The Bible is a selection of our interactions with God throughout history and does not contain all that Jesus did.Continued from Ten Reasons I'm a Sabbatarian [moved thread] Can you share why Jesus never call Mary “Mother” in the scripture that cannot be broken?
Paul talks about the Sinai covenant resulting in many human rules taught as God's law by Judaism that kept people from having to go through the slow animal sacrifices. Obtaining forgiveness through animal sacrifices was slow compared to our High Priest Jesus' quicker daily forgiveness for our past sins through prayer. Forgiveness makes possible our growth in obedience to God's law through practice without the need to sabotage God's law with many human rules to keep people from having to deal with their sin. It is human rules that enslaved people in their sin who are now free from these human rules with the forgiveness of Jesus' faster cycle than animal sacrifices.The Ten Commandments were not given in the time of Hagar. How would humans sabotage them before they existed?
There is nothing redundant in what Judaism did by adding their own rules that kept people from having to actually deal with their sin. God shows the removal of sin through His Ten Commandments, but Judaism was hiding their sin by sidestepping, canceling having to actually keep the Ten Commandments with their own rules, as Jesus tells us below.In this case, don’t you think any church organization's doctrines are also unnecessary? If doctrines are derived from the scripture, they are redundant.
The "human effort" Paul talks about in the following passage, comparing it to the story of Hagar, is humans trying to fulfill God's promise of obedience to the Ten Commandments by replacing them with their own rules that do not show the removal of sin as the actual Ten Commandments.But if doctrines are human interpretations of the scripture, then they are human efforts.
Brother, yes, though not all but the scripture recorded what Jesus did.Brother, Jesus did many other things that were not all written down. The Bible is a selection of our interactions with God throughout history and does not contain all that Jesus did.
Jesus also did many other things. If they were all written down, I suppose the whole world could not contain the books that would be written. (John 21:25 NLT)
The bible verses you cite are talking about the law given by God, not human rules. Moreover, how does it matter if a thousand years are like a day to God (2 Peter 3:8)?Paul talks about the Sinai covenant resulting in many human rules taught as God's law by Judaism that kept people from having to go through the slow animal sacrifices. Obtaining forgiveness through animal sacrifices was slow compared to our High Priest Jesus' quicker daily forgiveness for our past sins through prayer. Forgiveness makes possible our growth in obedience to God's law through practice without the need to sabotage God's law with many human rules to keep people from having to deal with their sin. It is human rules that enslaved people in their sin who are now free from these human rules with the forgiveness of Jesus' faster cycle than animal sacrifices.
Tell me, you who want to live under the law, do you know what the law actually says? The Scriptures say that Abraham had two sons, one from his slave wife and one from his freeborn wife. The son of the slave wife was born in a human attempt to bring about the fulfillment of God’s promise. But the son of the freeborn wife was born as God’s own fulfillment of his promise. These two women serve as an illustration of God’s two covenants. The first woman, Hagar, represents Mount Sinai where people received the law that enslaved them. And now Jerusalem is just like Mount Sinai in Arabia, because she and her children live in slavery to the law. But the other woman, Sarah, represents the heavenly Jerusalem. She is the free woman, and she is our mother. (Galatians 4:21-26 NLT)
I’m saying all denominations today also did this by setting organizational doctrines.There is nothing redundant in what Judaism did by adding their own rules that kept people from having to actually deal with their sin. God shows the removal of sin through His Ten Commandments, but Judaism was hiding their sin by sidestepping, canceling having to actually keep the Ten Commandments with their own rules, as Jesus tells us below.
Then he said, “You skillfully sidestep God’s law in order to hold on to your own tradition. For instance, Moses gave you this law from God: ‘Honor your father and mother,’ and ‘Anyone who speaks disrespectfully of father or mother must be put to death.’ But you say it is all right for people to say to their parents, ‘Sorry, I can’t help you. For I have vowed to give to God what I would have given to you.’ In this way, you let them disregard their needy parents. And so you cancel the word of God in order to hand down your own tradition. And this is only one example among many others.” (Mark 7:9-13 NLT)
The "human effort" Paul talks about in the following passage, comparing it to the story of Hagar, is humans trying to fulfill God's promise of obedience to the Ten Commandments by replacing them with their own rules that do not show the removal of sin as the actual Ten Commandments.
Tell me, you who want to live under the law, do you know what the law actually says? The Scriptures say that Abraham had two sons, one from his slave wife and one from his freeborn wife. The son of the slave wife was born in a human attempt to bring about the fulfillment of God’s promise. But the son of the freeborn wife was born as God’s own fulfillment of his promise. These two women serve as an illustration of God’s two covenants. The first woman, Hagar, represents Mount Sinai where people received the law that enslaved them. And now Jerusalem is just like Mount Sinai in Arabia, because she and her children live in slavery to the law. But the other woman, Sarah, represents the heavenly Jerusalem. She is the free woman, and she is our mother. As Isaiah said, “Rejoice, O childless woman, you who have never given birth! Break into a joyful shout, you who have never been in labor! For the desolate woman now has more children than the woman who lives with her husband!” And you, dear brothers and sisters, are children of the promise, just like Isaac. But you are now being persecuted by those who want you to keep the law, just as Ishmael, the child born by human effort, persecuted Isaac, the child born by the power of the Spirit. But what do the Scriptures say about that? “Get rid of the slave and her son, for the son of the slave woman will not share the inheritance with the free woman’s son.” So, dear brothers and sisters, we are not children of the slave woman; we are children of the free woman. (Galatians 4:21-31 NLT)
United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge
Brother, happy Sabbath! Many think that trying to obey the Ten Commandments of God enslaves them to sin when Paul says that it is the "human attempt to bring about the fulfillment of God's promise", rules that Judaism added to help them keep the Ten Commandments were what enslaved them to sin. The sin that would otherwise have been removed from their character had they obeyed the Ten Commandments instead of avoiding having to obey them through their own rules. For example, in order not to misuse God's name, Judaism added a rule not to use God's name at all, to avoid misusing His name. This rule kept them from having to offer many animal sacrifices to deal with their sin, but it did not help remove their sin of learning not to misuse God's name. Their human rule avoided having to deal with their sin, keeping their sin hidden rather than removed from their character. Jesus' second covenant has freed us from Judaism's human rule to actually obey God's Eleven Commandments so as not to use God's name in vain without needing to avoid using His name in a sin-free manner. What Paul is saying about the law of God is like a jealous woman responding to her partner's smile: "your smile to the waitress raised jealousy in me". The smile was the trigger but the smile did not cause jealousy, the jealousy was the response of a jealous woman and another woman who is not prone to jealousy would not respond the same way to her partner's smile to a waitress. In the same way, the Ten Commandments were the trigger but not the cause of the enslavement to sin. Paul is saying the enslavement to sin was Judaism's human response to God's Ten Commandments.The bible verses you cite are talking about the law given by God, not human rules.
Brother, having precautionary measures is not a sin. Paul himself practiced this (1 Corinthians 8:13).For example, in order not to misuse God's name, Judaism added a rule not to use God's name at all, to avoid misusing His name. This rule kept them from having to offer many animal sacrifices to deal with their sin, but it did not help remove their sin of learning not to misuse God's name. Their human rule avoided having to deal with their sin, keeping their sin hidden rather than removed from their character.
I believe wholeheartedly that the prohibition came from the SDA prophet. She was reared a Methodist. Old Methodism had rules against card playing, strong drink (even today they use grape Juice for communion) and other restrictions. Thank the Lord Methodism has seen the Light about prohibiting rules that God hasn't.Brother, having precautionary measures is not a sin. Paul himself practiced this (1 Corinthians 8:13).
Talking about human rule, isn’t SDA’s advice about not drinking wine the same? Jesus confessed that He drank wine when He compared Himself with John the Baptist. His context below was eating bread and drinking wine. Otherwise, why would others call Him a drunkard if He took only water and milk?
Luke 7:33-34
For John the Baptist came neither eating bread nor drinking wine, and you say, ‘He has a demon!’ The Son of Man came eating and drinking, and you say, ‘Look at this glutton and drunkard, a friend of tax collectors and sinners!’
Wisdom prepares wine (Proverbs 9:2), likewise, the LORD of Hosts (Isaiah 25:6). Offering also involved wine (Numbers 15:7, Leviticus 23:13).
Why has drinking wine becomes an issue? Worse still, the replier denied the fact of Jesus turning water into wine (John 2:9), although the first SDA doctrine called for submission to the Holy Scriptures.
Brother, the word in the Bible for wine can be used for new wine, fresh juice, and for old wine, fermented juice. The following passage is evidence that Jesus turned water into new wine. Freshness degrades quickly when you don't have refrigeration to prevent new wine from fermenting into old wine.Why has drinking wine becomes an issue? Worse still, the replier denied the fact of Jesus turning water into wine (John 2:9), although the first SDA doctrine called for submission to the Holy Scriptures.
Brother, I just checked. Both records use the same word οἶνον (oinon) and are referring to wine, including for John the Baptist (Luke 7:33-34). Isn’t SDA trying too hard to twist this fact?Brother, the word in the Bible for wine can be used for new wine, fresh juice, and for old wine, fermented juice. The following passage is evidence that Jesus turned water into new wine. Freshness degrades quickly when you don't have refrigeration to prevent new wine from fermenting into old wine.
When the master of ceremonies tasted the water that was now wine (oinos), not knowing where it had come from (though, of course, the servants knew), he called the bridegroom over. “A host always serves the best wine first,” he said. “Then, when everyone has had a lot to drink, he brings out the less expensive wine. But you have kept the best until now!” (John 2:9-10 NLT)
The word for wine above is the same word used below for new wine before it ferments to old wine. Those who want alcohol are those who in the following passage prefer old wine to new wine.
“And no one puts new wine (oinos) into old wineskins. For the new wine would burst the wineskins, spilling the wine and ruining the skins. New wine must be stored in new wineskins. But no one who drinks the old wine seems to want the new wine. ‘The old is just fine,’ they say.” (Luke 5:37-39 NLT)
United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge
Brother, Jesus tells us in the following passage that there is only one more new Eleventh Commandment to add to the previous Ten Commandments, not possible before Jesus, which is to "follow" His example when He says: "there is still one thing you haven't done".Anyway, is being a little child the twelfth commandment? (Matthew 18:3)
Are you saying the eleventh commandment is Love each other?Brother, Jesus tells us in the following passage that there is only one more new Eleventh Commandment to add to the previous Ten Commandments, not possible before Jesus, which is to "follow" His example when He says: "there is still one thing you haven't done".
Once a religious leader asked Jesus this question: “Good Teacher, what should I do to inherit eternal life?” “Why do you call me good?” Jesus asked him. “Only God is truly good. But to answer your question, you know the commandments (entolé): ‘You must not commit adultery. You must not murder. You must not steal. You must not testify falsely. Honor your father and mother.’” The man replied, “I’ve obeyed all these commandments since I was young.” When Jesus heard his answer, he said, “There is still one thing you haven’t done. Sell all your possessions and give the money to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me.” (Luke 18:18-22 NLT)
The new Eleventh Commandment above is found in the following passage, where to do "just as I have" is to "follow" His example by keeping a total of Eleven Commandments when Jesus adds one more to the previous Ten Commandments, saying above: "there is still one thing you haven't done".
As soon as Judas left the room, Jesus said, “The time has come for the Son of Man to enter into his glory, and God will be glorified because of him. And since God receives glory because of the Son, he will give his own glory to the Son, and he will do so at once. Dear children, I will be with you only a little longer. And as I told the Jewish leaders, you will search for me, but you can’t come where I am going. So now I am giving you a new commandment (entolé): Love each other. Just as I have loved you, you should love each other. Your love for one another will prove to the world that you are my disciples.” (John 13:31-35 NLT)
United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge
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