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CF has always been a site that welcomes people from different backgrounds and beliefs to participate in discussion and even debate. That is the nature of its ministry. In view of recent events emotions are running very high. We need to remind people of some basic principles in debating on this site. We need to be civil when we express differences in opinion. No personal attacks. Avoid you, your statements. Don't characterize an entire political party with comparisons to Fascism or Communism or other extreme movements that committed atrocities. CF is not the place for broad brush or blanket statements about groups and political parties. Put the broad brushes and blankets away when you come to CF, better yet, put them in the incinerator. Debate had no place for them. We need to remember that people that commit acts of violence represent themselves or a small extreme faction.
Did god make perverts
- Thread starter raven1
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babychrist
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Goodness Raven-God bless your heart! I wish you would have told us sooner! You're not bad because you had/have these feelings. You are not morally culpable at all! Your example of the 'cleft palate' earlier was spot on! Just like a child with a 'cleft palate' or me with my OCD, you've been dealt what you've been dealt. It's completely out of your hands. So don't worry about the morality of it all. You're loved just the way you are. God accepts you just as you are. All you are responsible for is how you freely choose to handle what you've been given.
Carrying one's cross isn't about struggling along the road to Calvary. Struggle isn't the point (although it's there). Carrying one's cross is about taking what you're given (your cross) and using it for good. Remember what Joseph said of his brothers' attempt to kill him, because they were jealous of him?
"As for you, you meant evil against me, but God meant it for good, to bring it about that many people should be kept alive, as they are today". (Gen 50:20)
The Devil, being envious, meant evil against us, just like Joseph's brothers, being envious meant evil against him. But like in the case of Joseph, God allows such things to happen for our good. Now, Joseph prefigures Jesus. It was men with wicked intentions that fashioned our Lord's cross and laid it upon His shoulders. They wanted Him to suffer. They wanted Him dead. They had no glorious intention for Jesus. He was to die in shame, a criminal's death, executed by the State. Jesus became helpless in the face of his accusers, the ultimate being Satan, who tried him like Job had never experienced!
So the Devil and wicked men try us everyday...but wait...Jesus is here among us, human like us, carrying His cross beside us! We know we suffer. We know we're going to die. We know that the road we walk looks dark and hopeless. What faith can there be at a hill ominously called, 'The Place of the Skull'-which is what 'Golgotha' means? But Jesus suffers with us and will continue to suffer with us and He will die with us. He threw in his lot with you Raven. He suffers as you suffer, He goes through everything you go through. He has become another Raven. Why? Because He, being God can do for you, what you being human cannot do for yourself. He can make your sufferings not only mean something, but mean everything! To possess so much meaning, so much redemptive power, that far from being evil, these sufferings will show themselves to be the path through which God has brought about your ultimate good and the good of others. Who knows how many souls God will save because of what you're going through right now. So rejoice in your sufferings as hard as it is to do (and believe me, I know it's hard). Satan threw you down that well along time ago, only to drag you back up, to sell you into slavery. Now, you're in most uncomfortable place-a place alien, strange, a prison even. But remember Joseph and say to yourself, ' I will feed thousands and even those who did me harm will come to me, asking to be fed.' You spoke of being a mother, but God wants to make you a mother of multitudes! You labored to deliver your child, this is labor too.
I don't mean to preach. But sweet, sweet Raven, if you only saw your plight as I see it, if you only saw yourself as I do, as God most certainly does. Dear, Raven, you are so loved. You've never met me, so I doubt you have any real faith in me and yet how I love you. Do you think God loves you any less than I do? Where would my love come from, if not God?! Raven, my love for you is only a small fraction of the love God has for you. I'd let you into heaven-God will let you into heaven. Have no fear. I'll storm the gates of hell if I had too, in order for you to be saved--but wait, Someone already has. Have no fear Raven. What is our Lord's favorite greeting? 'Shalome'-Peace.
"Peace I leave with you; my peace I give you. I do not give to you as the world gives. Do not let your hearts be troubled and do not be afraid."-Jn 14:27
BC
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Thanks for your kind words babychirst. One of the nicest things anybody has ever said to me and thank you for the blessings. It is harder for me to believe he will forgive me for my doubt than the other issues I have said. I feel like I am becoming agnostic because I thought well it is true logically that we cannot know scientifically that God is there and that I am just going to believe in case he is and also its not what if he is not there it is what if he is and all these things rattiling around in my brain. I dont want to go to hell for doubting but I keep thinking we cannot know and we cannot not know if there is a God that is the same thing agnostics say.
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babychrist
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May I ask, what has caused your doubts? Do you know? Is it because you think His existence cannot be proven?
BC
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babychrist
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In regards to God's existence, it creeps up from time to time, but it doesn't last long. In regards to my own salvation...wow...probably over 15 years.
BC
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well i have been saved for 15 years. I mean really and truly accepted Christ had not a doubt enter my mind that there was no God or heaven or anything. Then I had a health scare and I thought what if there is no heaven and we just cease to exist which really scares me. Then I thought how do we even know the bible is real anybody could have written it then maybe there is no God we cannot prove he exists and this has been my daily worries that because I doubt these things I will go to hell for a little over a year now. So i was just wondering if anybody else has had these same doubts and how long did they last because my last obsession lasted for 27 years. Most of my life. It just seems the more I read to bulid my faith it doesnt matter doubts just stay there nothing helps the doubt. I just feel like I pray to God in case he is there now not because I know he is there like before. I have people at my work that are agnostic and atheists none of them even worry at all that there may be a God but I still feel like I am becoming agnostic. I dont even feel like the same person anymore. The atheists at my work and the agnostics seem so happy and I am not saying at all I dont worry for them I do as I worry for myself but it doesnt seem fair that they have no worry. I am also scared the most that this is not o.c.d and just unbelief and then I will surely go to hell. How can even a trained professional tell you if it is doubt or unbelief that is impossible.
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SoldierOfSoul
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Atheists worry more than you think; their arrogance usually will try and cover up this fact but trust me they worry too, about death and the life after...there are many things they do not understand like they think they do. They also worry about what if their wrong...what if a All Knowing, All Seeing Goodness, Lord's over the universe and they are blind to this fact...These thoughts cross their mind and yet they continue on the path of perdition even while the thoughts never cease until death. The human heart has an innate yearning for eternity and yet atheists refuse to submit to this cry of their heart and just ignore the evidence out of a prideful heart.
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I cant believe this board gets like 247 views on some threads and very few people post and help others out. Not just on my thread but others also!!
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babychrist
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I think God's existence can be proven. Have you heard the expression, 'It takes more faith to be an atheist than a Christian'? There's a great deal of truth in that. It's logically impossible to prove atheism, as atheism asserts a negative and a negative cannot be proven. The most anyone can ever be (logically speaking), is agnostic. As far as I can deduce, true agnosticism can only occur under two conditions: 1) Either a person has thoroughly investigated the claims for and against God and deduced that nothing can be known for certain either way. 2) Or the person is unaware of the claims for God's existence, but hearing of God, says, 'I don't know'. The first would be an agnosticism reached through lack of evidence. The second through lack of knowledge.
From what you've written, you don't seem to fall into either category. You are where you are, because of OCD induced fear. Fear actually hampers our ability to think through things logically. Fear also mitigates culpability. In other words, fear arrests and imprisons both the mind (to think logically) and the will (to act freely).
So this is another cross and Jesus is still walking beside you. What you are feeling is agonizingly painful, but it has nothing to do with whether or not you're saved. You can't reject Jesus because you're currently not free enough to do so. Think of everyone Jesus encountered. They fell into two groups. The demoniacs, prostitutes, doubters, ect. and those who considered themselves righteous, because they weren't demoniacs, prostitutes, doubters, ect . Which group made it into heaven faster? The first. Why? Because, by demoniacs, prostitutes, doubters ect., they had already hit rock bottom, they had already been made helpless by the cross Satan and the world had laid upon their shoulders and therefore were in prime condition to hear the Good News of the approaching Kingdom, "Have no fear-Be not afraid!" You are being put in that same position as am I and many other at CF. You haven't lost your salvation, you're are being made ready for it's consummation, for the arrival of His Kingdom, both in your heart and at the end of the age. What comfort can a person who has never suffered or been afraid find in His message of, "Be not afraid?" The Gospel and the Kingdom means nothing to such persons (if they exist). But it means something to you. It's strange how God works. His way of doing things is definitely not the way we'd do things, but nevertheless, He still, "consigned all to disobedience, that he may have mercy on all." Romans 11:32 is one of the most shocking and comforting verses in all of Scripture, imo.
As an aside, regarding faith: Be careful not to make faith into a work-the one work you need in order to be saved. I think you may be putting your trust of salvation into your faith, instead of into Jesus where it belongs. This is a trap a lot of Christians fall into and for a person with OCD it can be devastating. So many well-meaning people tried to comfort me by saying, "Well, you have faith don't you? You believe in Jesus right?" It only made matters worse. I didn't want to have to depend on my faith in order to be saved. As soon as 'faith alone' becomes a precondition of salvation, it ceases to be 'grace alone'. Always be on the lookout for this Raven. So many Christians fall into this trap.
BC
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babychrist
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I think a lot of people want to help but just don't know how. This particular board gets a lot of lurkers. So most of our readers probably do not have OCD.
BC
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I do not know if I can say there is a God or not that is what scares me. Before I just felt like I knew didnt question. Now because I doubt I feel like it has lead me to a place where the only thing I can say is it cant be proven one way or another that is why I am scared. I feel like I just pray at night, or for that dog at work today, etc. just in case. I dont want to go to hell but I cant stop the doubts if I could I would.
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dabro
A child of the living God.
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I've had POCD and the worst thing I did was tell everybody my thoughts. I got judged so badly I think thats why my theme is about God's JUdgment. POCD. And HOCD are hard theme, they all are but in time you'll see glimpses of yourself healing and getting better. It's doesn't take a day, week or month. It takes yr's to really cope with this disorder, If you have POCD. I love you that much more becaues your experiencing the first theme I ever had. stay strong.
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My friend made a comment today about how God had blessed a man she knew and didnt I agree and I felt like I cant say yes because I dont believe I doubt but I feel like I do still believe or I wouldnt fear hell but what if I believe just because I fear hell and because I cannot see something I am doubting. I know that is where faith comes in but my faith is leaving me. AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! i ALSO FELT A WEIRD FEELING WHEN I WAS THINKING I DIDNT KNOW IF gOD HAD BLESSED HIM BECAUSE I DOUBT GOD. I DONT EVEN KNOW HOW TO EXPLAIN IT
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SoldierOfSoul
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Do you have a church you go to raven?
You need to be in a good church, it will help your faith enormously.
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DangerousType
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I think there are people with these evil thoughts and feelings but it's up to them to act on them. if they live their life being a pedophile, giving in to their temptations, then they're evil. If they have these longings and urges of pedophilia all their life, but know it's wrong and don't act on it, then they are saved because they struggled all their life to be good.
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