Did God Create Evil?

Phantasman · Sep 6, 2017

I accept the view of the gnosis books of spirit. Wisdom thought it could begat on her own (without the Father) and the result was error and ignorance of the Father since it didn't have the Father in it. She saw her error and encased it in it's own Aeon. We are in that Aeon and he created the physical (heavens and earth) and created man to lord over us. But the perfect Father gave us a part of him in Eden when we chose to transgress beyond being a slave to ignorance. Jesus was the image of the true God that saves us. And wisdom (Sophia) who repented to the Father, is trying to save us as well.

Jesus is the result of the Holy Spirit (Sophia) AND the Father. This gives him the perfection the other doesn't have. The Father would not make an adversary (evil). That would make him imperfect. And contrary to the Jewish myth (that Jesus said did not come from Heaven), Evil (ignorance) has never seen nor been in Heaven. That would make Heaven imperfect as well.

The point is, evil is here. How it got here doesn't matter, but how we see the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit does matter.

MournfulWatcher · Sep 6, 2017

CrystalDragon said:
Obviously. God apparently created everything. In the Old Testament he was in charge of peace and calamity, and sent evil and lying spirits.

So God's really more morally ambiguous if anything.

Who are you to say that God is morally ambiguous? This isn't an accusatory question, but but a philosophical one. If God created everything, including morality which he instilled in you upon creating you, then how can you judge God accurately? We are created beings. God, by the very nature of the definition of God, is beyond that kind of human judgement. We can only know what we know about Him if he tells us, and God repeatedly says he is good. And logically he must be good because he is the authority we appeal to when we do something wrong or when someone does wrong to us.

Vicomte13 · Sep 6, 2017

Of course He did. Otherwise it wouldn't exist.

Remember, please, that "evil" is relational, not an entity.

The word "ra", which we translate as "evil" or "bad", really means something more like "doesn't work" or "dysfunctional", while the word we translate as "good" really means something like "that works" or "that's functional".

"Evil" as a word implies that there is an entity out there a "thing" that is "evil" - like a black thread. But really, that which "doesn't work", is dyfunctional, causes things that are ordered by God to fall towards chaos and not working - that is what "evil" is.

The scientific term for "evil" could be "entropy" - the tendency of things to become disordered, the innate reversion towards chaos of things. It takes energy/light/power to order things out of chaos, but their nature is to fall back into it unless energy is maintained.

God created entropy, and God created the light/energy which which order is brought to the chaos. Indeed, without God's creative energy, everything would just stay tohu vavohu - higgledy-piggledy - formless and void.

So yes, God created evil. God created all things.

Example: God creates life. All life. The Devil can't create life. Life cannot spontaneously arise without God. Which means that God is the creator of the life forms called malaria, HIV, typhus, e coli, rabies, and every other nasty infectious disease you can think of. God creates them and God sends them to their purpose...which is to eat us.

Is that good? Well, it's good for the malaria larvae, and HIV viruses, I suppose. Not so good for us.
"Good" and "evil" are relational things, that works, or doesn't work, relative to something. If there's nothing at all, there is neither order nor disorder.

disciple1 · Sep 6, 2017

jhwatts said:
I have always been told know but the Bible is clear on more than one verse that he did.

Proverbs 16:4

Isaiah 45:7

It seems that this is the case.

Please chime in and let me know how this is not the case.

James chapter 1 verse 13
When tempted, no one should say, "God is tempting me." For God cannot be tempted by evil, nor does he tempt anyone;

I don't know if this helps.

But God created love.

1 Peter chapter 4 verse 8
Love covers a great many sins.

Newlyrestoredgospel777 · Sep 6, 2017

John 1:3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

This is revealing that there are things that exist that were not made by HIM.

24 Another parable put he forth unto them, saying, The kingdom of heaven is likened unto a man which sowed good seed in his field:

25 But while men slept, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat, and went his way.

26 But when the blade was sprung up, and brought forth fruit, then appeared the tares also.

27 So the servants of the householder came and said unto him, Sir, didst not thou sow good seed in thy field? from whence then hath it tares?

28 He said unto them, An enemy hath done this. The servants said unto him, Wilt thou then that we go and gather them up?

29 But he said, Nay; lest while ye gather up the tares, ye root up also the wheat with them.

30 Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.

Tares exist just as weeds exist in the garden. Examples of things that were not made by GOD but exist are flies, cockroaches, maggots.

If you clean wrap a bowl of food and put it away for a few days - not refrigerate or freeze; you will see that things such as maggots may be in the food. This is due to the Air that was concealed in the bowl along with the food.

Nature is a matrix. nature is a woman. And it has its own alter set. Air, water, earth - These are matrixes and they also produce things in the earth which the GOD did not make. It is the same for the tares.

Therefore, they are products of reproduce.
All things which are products of reproduce are allowed to exist because they are defining darkness. Nature herself shall be judged also for her work.

Vicomte13 · Sep 6, 2017

Newlyrestoredgospel777 said:
John 1:3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

This is revealing that there are things made that were not made by HIM.

24 Another parable put he forth unto them, saying, The kingdom of heaven is likened unto a man which sowed good seed in his field:

25 But while men slept, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat, and went his way.

26 But when the blade was sprung up, and brought forth fruit, then appeared the tares also.

27 So the servants of the householder came and said unto him, Sir, didst not thou sow good seed in thy field? from whence then hath it tares?

28 He said unto them, An enemy hath done this. The servants said unto him, Wilt thou then that we go and gather them up?

29 But he said, Nay; lest while ye gather up the tares, ye root up also the wheat with them.

30 Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.

Tares exist just as weeds exist in the garden.

If you clean wrap a bowl of food and put it away for a few days - not refrigerate or freeze; you will see that things such as maggots may be in the food. This is due to the Air that was concealed in the bowl along with the food.

Nature is a matrix. nature is a woman. And it has its own alter set. Air, water, earth - These are matrixes and they also produce things in the earth which the GOD did not make. It is the same for the tares.

Therefore, they are products of reproduce.
All things which are products of reproduce are allowed to exist because they are defining darkness. Nature herself shall be judged also for her work.

Phantasman · Sep 6, 2017

disciple1 said:
James chapter 1 verse 13
When tempted, no one should say, "God is tempting me." For God cannot be tempted by evil, nor does he tempt anyone;

I don't know if this helps.

But God created love.

1 Peter chapter 4 verse 8
Love covers a great many sins.

Jesus was tempted by the devil in the desert. After he had taken his flesh two beats from death. The devil spout fleshly terms, Jesus answered in spiritual terms. He showed his power of spirit over flesh.

Like Jesus, we are tempted through out carnal flesh. The Law was for the flesh. Jesus taught the law of spirit. His knowledge (Gospel) was to introduce the spirit to the world, and the Father of it. And as he says in John, the OT Jews never had it (and died).

God the Father cannot be tempted because no one (including the devil) knows him to be able to tempt him.

TreCo · Sep 6, 2017

God created man. Man chose to sin from free will. Sin creates evil. God has the power to wipe out all evil from the Earth, but in order to do that he would need to wipe out all the sinners of the world, including me and you because we are all sinners. But God loves us so much that he gives us a chance to change our ways, and to repent of our sins. This is why we have evil in the world, because God loves us, the sinner.

TreCo · Sep 6, 2017

God created man. Man chose to sin from free will. Sin creates evil. God has the power to wipe out all evil from the Earth, but in order to do that he would need to wipe out all the sinners of the world, including me and you because we are all sinners. But God loves us so much that he gives us a chance to change our ways, and to repent of our sins. This is why we have evil in the world, because God loves us, the sinner.

nonaeroterraqueous · Sep 6, 2017

Vicomte13 said:
Life cannot spontaneously arise without God. Which means that God is the creator of the life forms called malaria, HIV, typhus, e coli, rabies, and every other nasty infectious disease you can think of.

That's exactly correct. Living things of all kinds show the same quality of design, whether they be a soft fuzzy kitten or a writhing intestinal parasite. Satan isn't clever enough to make any of that, but no one likes to blame God. The problem, though, is that God is the only one that could have done it, so the better response is not to deny that God created it, but to accept that God had every right to do so. The alternative is to believe in a God that only exists in a person's imagination.

jhwatts said:
I appreciate the responses, however, nobody has help me to reconcile the Proverbs 16:4.

Had you been a Calvinist/monergist, that issue would have been simple. We take the text to mean exactly what it says, rather than work up a twisted explanation to explain why it doesn't really say what it clearly says.

This would be such an example:

Hal A Peno said:
We know that's because of free will. When God created beings with free will, He created the propensity for evil.

This explanation is probably the single most used explanation for all things evil in every Christian blog or forum, anywhere. The sorry thing about it is that no quote, paraphrase or hint of it is found anywhere at all in the Bible.

If human will is free from God's sovereignty, then all human decisions and all of human history is beyond God's power. If evil is the product of a human will that is beyond God's sovereignty, then all evil lies beyond the power of God. Whether you say that God let it happen or caused it to happen, it's just a word game. For God, who is both omniscient and omnipotent, there is no meaningful difference between letting something happen and making it happen.

God has it in mind to kill every one of us. To this time, he has done exactly that with every single person who has ever lived. It is part of his design. It is a great evil for us. He has every right to do it. We believe that he has a perfectly good reason for doing so, because we trust him.

Hal A Peno · Sep 6, 2017

MournfulWatcher · Sep 6, 2017

If God is good and God is always the same (yesterday, today, tomorrow) did God create good, or has goodness as a concept always existed because God has always existed?

And if good has always existed, then does that not mean evil, as a concept, has always existed? Or did God create it?

I believe that God has always been good, and so good and evil have always existed before humanity was even created. To say God created everything, including good and evil, and yet good and evil has always existed due to the very nature of God, creates a sort of paradox. I think there is an element to it that we are incapable of understanding because we are humans.

Hal A Peno · Sep 6, 2017

Newlyrestoredgospel777 · Sep 6, 2017

There are children of light (children of life) and children of darkness (children of death). There are wheats and there are tares. A wheat is a child of life because they are descendants from Heaven, Children of the Author of Life. A tare is a child of darkness because they are ascended from the darkness (Abyss).

No man has ascended to heaven except he that came down from heaven. Even the Son of Man which is in Heaven. - This is revealing that a child of Life is descended from Heaven.

I am from above, ye are from beneath. You are of this world, i am not of this world. - This is revealing that tares are children from beneath. That does not mean the earth, but the Abyss. The systems of this world are run by lucifer.

The Abyss is a place from which the GOD has withdrawn HIS presence from - complete darkness.

Now responding to the mental gymnastics asking about if Good always existed...

The GOD is the Most Holy. This is HIS nature. And HIS son has HIS Holy Nature, while the branches of the tree has the Nature of the Son. Wheras Tares have the nature of darkness, which is why they are defining darkness. They cannot walk in the light of the Most Holy Nature of GOD because it is not in their nature to do so. IN short, they are of their father the devil, which is revealing that the devil called lucifer is also a tare, and the truth cannot abide in them.

Even though both Mankind (children of life) and Humanity (children of Men or darkness) both are in the mortal nature, they are inspired differently. A child of life is inspired Positively, while a child of darkness negatively. This is revealing that the sin nature, although being the reason why we transgress the LAW, that the child of darkness who is inspired negatively embraces his nature because they are in their ascended state. This means that their time in the earth is the best they can hope for, and this was also revealed in Luke 16:19-30: For the rich man was tormented after he died revealing that on the earth he was in his ascended state. While a child of life hates his sin nature because it is their fallen state, and thus it is against his nature to embrace the sin nature.

This is what paul was trying to say in Romans 7:15-20

So those that do not hate what they do in the sin nature, are revealing that they love the nature of the fallen man, and thus do not consider themselves to be in error, regardless of whether they know of the LAW or not.

I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

A child of disobedience disobeys because it is not in their nature to obey. They cannot be taught the things of GOD which are Most Holy because they are not of GOD. Much like Cain who could not be taught which is also revealing that Cain is a tare.

A tare behaves the way they do because of their nature. They come from darkness so it is the dark they will embrace. GOD is not interested in tares, HE is not interested in the crowd, HE is interested in the remnant. Do you know that GOD does not act on chance. HE is not a gambler. HE knows the end from the beginning. HE knows HIS sheep.

To say that GOD created evil is in direct contradiction to: GOD is light and in HIM is no darkness at all.
Rather, GOD is the Author of life. it is the will of GOD that none of HIS children should perish. HE wants them to LIVE!

Now look at the word LIVE - Do you think it is a coincidence that EVIL is LIVE spelled backwards? Anything to do with death is not of GOD. The Living GOD is not the GOD of the dead (Tares) but of the Living! So why do you think we are able to die? Because death is a result, a consequence of the fallen nature. But the GOD of Salvation brought the solution to death which is HIS WORD.

Death is a system. Death and her pathogens are darkness.
They are not of GOD, nor created by GOD. They are products of being in the mortal nature. For this reason, death and hell shall also be cast into the lake of fire. Every Tare, Every system of Darkness, everything that is made but was not made is defining darkness and shall be cast into the lake of fire.

JoeP222w · Sep 6, 2017

God is sovereign over all things. God is holy and perfect and righteous. God is justice. God also has a sovereign decree. He uses secondary means to display His sovereignty and holiness. God also uses secondary means to display His justice and wrath against sin. God has decreed that evil will exist in this world to demonstrate His justice on the wicked, but also to demonstrate His grace on those He chooses.

Marvin Knox · Sep 6, 2017

Vicomte13 said:
So yes, God created evil. God created all things.

Pretty straight forward wording there. That sounds a lot like God would say it.

nonaeroterraqueous said:
Had you been a Calvinist/monergist, that issue would have been simple. We take the text to mean exactly what it says, rather than work up a twisted explanation to explain why it doesn't really say what it clearly says. This would be such an example:

That is exactly the way the Calvinist theologians handled it in the day of the writing of the Westminster Confession of Faith.

They took direct statements like this one and many others concerning the absolute sovereignty of God over evil as God's Word on the matter.

Then they took other equally direct statements which assure us that God is all goodness and light and not the author of evil as God's Word on that matter as well.

Then they took a few years to come up with a systematically arrived at and concise statement which pretty much said it all so that we wouldn't have to hash these things out over and over again in the centuries to come.

"God from all eternity, did, by the most wise and holy counsel of His own will, freely, and unchangeably ordain whatsoever comes to pass; yet so, as thereby neither is God the author of sin, nor is violence offered to the will of the creatures; nor is the liberty or contingency of second causes taken away, but rather established."

The Non-Calvinists are too sensitive to agree with God openly when He makes His bold statements about His sovereignty over evil. They will only agree with God openly when He makes bold statements about His goodness etc.

The Calvinist on the other hand takes all of the statements into consideration and synthesizes them into a catechism to make it easy for people to know what is the complete doctrine on the subjects as stated by God.

God - apparently - isn't very sensitive at all in the things He says. Probably because he doesn't have to argue with anyone like you or I do.

He also - apparently - didn't feel the need to explain how His various paradoxical statements fit together. Instead He left it to His church as guided by His Holy Spirit to do that.

I think they pretty much nailed this one at Westminster when it comes to explaining in a simple way how God relates to good and evil.

That's the way I see it anyway.

Others will find the need to argue about these things again and again until the Lord returns.

dx70 · Sep 6, 2017

I am new here and not a convinced Christian, so perhaps my baptism was in vain, yet I see verses like this one and have seen and read the OT about the killings that God has done, sometimes simply it seems out of jealousy because people did not worship him. I'm an honest person; I cannot bring myself to love God after all I have read in the OT. I felt drawn to him at one time, but now I am repulsed by reading the OT. Is it possible that I cannot be a Christian?

lesliedellow · Sep 6, 2017

dx70 said:
I am new here and not a convinced Christian, so perhaps my baptism was in vain, yet I see verses like this one and have seen and read the OT about the killings that God has done, sometimes simply it seems out of jealousy because people did not worship him. I'm an honest person; I cannot bring myself to love God after all I have read in the OT. I felt drawn to him at one time, but now I am repulsed by reading the OT. Is it possible that I cannot be a Christian?

God is Lord of all creation, and humans were created to serve him. The OT is largely a record of our persistent rebellion against our alloted role, and the divine judgment which follows upon that.

The NT is largely about the means through which we can become reconciled to God, in spite of our ongoing sin.

RaymondG · Sep 6, 2017

dx70 said:
I am new here and not a convinced Christian, so perhaps my baptism was in vain, yet I see verses like this one and have seen and read the OT about the killings that God has done, sometimes simply it seems out of jealousy because people did not worship him. I'm an honest person; I cannot bring myself to love God after all I have read in the OT. I felt drawn to him at one time, but now I am repulsed by reading the OT. Is it possible that I cannot be a Christian?

This is simple. Stop reading the OT and read the new. As a matter of fact, only buy bibles that have the ot excluded.

After GOD gives you wisdom and understanding, then start reading the ot again.

WonderingStranger · Sep 6, 2017

I thought God is light in in him is no darkness, so no he did not creat evil, unless the bible contradicts itself.

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