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Did Darwin Convert?

I heard someone on the radio a couple weeks ago mention something about quotes that Mr. Darwin made late in his life about he regret in having written "Origin of the Species". He also quoted him as speaking that he was very wrong in his findings and that he no longer believe in evolution himself.

Does anyone know some things about this? Quotes that Darwin made, perhaps? Or maybe some websites or books that I could look at to see what kind of things he may have said.

I don't think that the person speaking about him made that up, but I would like to see with my own eyes just what he said.
 
BTW, even if the story was true, what difference would it make? The theory doesn't stand or fall with what Darwin may have thought on his deathbed. We've had ~150 years of solid research since then that confirms the general outline of the theory that Darwin presented beyond any reasonable doubt.
 
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JLovesUSo

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It seems to me that there is more information to refute Lady Hope's testimony than prove it, IMO. Here's just 1 page I found, but there's many on the subject - and it's very sad that (if so) this story was fabricated.

“With Moody's encouragement, Lady Hope's story was printed in the Boston Watchman Examiner. The story spread, and the claims were republished as late as October 1955 in the Reformation Review and in the Monthly Record of the Free Church of Scotland in February 1957. These attempts to fudge Darwin's story had already been exposed for what they were, first by his daughter Henrietta after they had been revived in 1922. ‘I was present at his deathbed,’ she wrote in the Christian for February 23, 1922. ‘Lady Hope was not present during his last illness, or any illness. I believe he never even saw her, but in any case she had no influence over him in any department of thought or belief. He never recanted any of his scientific views, either then or earlier. We think the story of his conversion was fabricated in the U.S.A. . . . The whole story has no foundation whatever.’” (Ellipsis is in the book)

direct link: http://www.stephenjaygould.org/ctrl/ladyhope.html
 
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lithium.

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Originally posted by gr4p34p3
I heard someone on the radio a couple weeks ago mention something about quotes that Mr. Darwin made late in his life about he regret in having written "Origin of the Species". He also quoted him as speaking that he was very wrong in his findings and that he no longer believe in evolution himself.

Does anyone know some things about this? Quotes that Darwin made, perhaps? Or maybe some websites or books that I could look at to see what kind of things he may have said.

I don't think that the person speaking about him made that up, but I would like to see with my own eyes just what he said.

I don't think so. He never said evolution was false or any kind of nonsence like that.
 
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lithium.

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Originally posted by gr4p34p3
I heard someone on the radio a couple weeks ago mention something about quotes that Mr. Darwin made late in his life about he regret in having written "Origin of the Species". He also quoted him as speaking that he was very wrong in his findings and that he no longer believe in evolution himself.

What radio station did you hear this on.. They shouldn't be spreading lies. :(
 
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JohnR7

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Originally posted by gr4p34p3
Does anyone know some things about this? Quotes that Darwin made, perhaps? 

There does seem to be a Lady Hope, and they do feel that she spent some time with Darwin right before he died. But no one has been able to prove or disprove her story.

Just as there is not one shread of evidence to support Darwin's theory of evolution beyond “micro-evolutionary” changes within a species. There also does not seem to be any evidence to support Lady Hopes claim that Darwin returned to christianity late in life.

Darwin was said to be a christian up to the age of 40 and he had very serious thoughts of becoming a country pastor. But the reason was so that he could support himself to do research work.  As it turned out, he had enough money to support himself and gave up on his idea of being a pastor.  
 
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JohnR7

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Originally posted by seesaw
Hi John, how is everything.

Everything is fine here. My wife is working, our 4 year old is visiting with his aunt. So I have the house to myself and I can do what I want today :) He keeps trying to get me to play his veggie tale games on the computer and that can get to be boring quick :)
 
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MSBS

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Originally posted by JohnR7
There does seem to be a Lady Hope, and they do feel that she spent some time with Darwin right before he died. But no one has been able to prove or disprove her story.

Just as there is not one shread of evidence to support Darwin's theory of evolution beyond “micro-evolutionary” changes within a species. There also does not seem to be any evidence to support Lady Hopes claim that Darwin returned to christianity late in life.

Darwin was said to be a christian up to the age of 40 and he had very serious thoughts of becoming a country pastor. But the reason was so that he could support himself to do research work.  As it turned out, he had enough money to support himself and gave up on his idea of being a pastor.  

From AIG:

Darwin’s biographer, Dr James Moore, lecturer in the history of science and technology at The Open University in the UK, has spent 20 years researching the data over three continents. He produced a 218-page book examining what he calls the ’Darwin legend’.7 He says there was a Lady Hope. Born Elizabeth Reid Cotton in 1842, she married a widower, retired Admiral Sir James Hope, in 1877. She engaged in tent evangelism and in visiting the elderly and sick in Kent in the 1880s, and died of cancer in Sydney, Australia, in 1922, where her tomb may be seen to this day.8

Moore concludes that Lady Hope probably did visit Charles between Wednesday, September 28 and Sunday, October 2, 1881, almost certainly when Francis and Henrietta were absent, but his wife, Emma, probably was present.9 He describes Lady Hope as ‘a skilled raconteur, able to summon up poignant scenes and conversations, and embroider them with sentimental spirituality.’10 He points out that her published story contained some authentic details as to time and place, but also factual inaccuracies — Charles was not bedridden six months before he died, and the summer house was far too small to accommodate 30 people. The most important aspect of the story, however, is that it does not say that Charles either renounced evolution or embraced Christianity. He merely is said to have expressed concern over the fate of his youthful speculations and to have spoken in favour of a few people’s attending a religious meeting. The alleged recantation/ conversion are embellishments that others have either read into the story or made up for themselves. Moore calls such doings ‘holy fabrication’!

It should be noted that for most of her married life Emma was deeply pained by the irreligious nature of Charles’s views, and would have been strongly motivated to have corroborated any story of a genuine conversion, if such had occurred. She never did.

It therefore appears that Darwin did not recant, and it is a pity that to this day the Lady Hope story occasionally appears in tracts published and given out by well-meaning people.
 
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Ajnin

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Did Darwin Convert? Does it Matter? If Darwin had become a seven day YEC, would it discredit evolution? No, it wouldn't. Scientific theories don't live or die on the credibility, the continued support, or anything else to do with their originators. What does live or die on the continued support of its founders or originators? Religions.

So why does the Lady Hope story spread among religious groups? Because most religious groups view evolution as a religious belief and not a scientific theory, if Darwin's "belief" in evolution is discredited, then in their eyes evolution is completely discredited, regardless of the evidence supporting it.

Or maybe I'm just reading to much into this. What does everybody else think?
 
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lithium.

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Doesn't matter to me, God is real. His existance isn't determined by whether or not animals gradually change.

Well even if god is real, evolution is real to so god could have made us through evolution.
 
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lucaspa

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Originally posted by JohnR7
Just as there is not one shread of evidence to support Darwin's theory of evolution beyond “micro-evolutionary” changes within a species. There also does not seem to be any evidence to support Lady Hopes claim that Darwin returned to christianity late in life.

Darwin was said to be a christian up to the age of 40 and he had very serious thoughts of becoming a country pastor. But the reason was so that he could support himself to do research work.  As it turned out, he had enough money to support himself and gave up on his idea of being a pastor.  

Darwin never really left Christianity.  There was a Lady Hope, but she never spent time with Darwin at the end of his life.  Darwin was what would today be considered a normal, believing Anglican.  He had his doubts, and he rejected the then-Christian doctrine of damnation if you weren't a Christian.  Of course, most of Christianity, including Anglicanism, has decided Darwin was right and has abandoned that doctrine.

You can find Darwin's later beliefs summarized in Chapter 21 of Desmond and Moore's biography Darwin. Appropriately, the chapter is entitled "Never an Atheist". Toward the end of his life, Darwin wrote his long-time friend Asa Gray.  He declared that, although he had had "wide swings of faith" that he "never had gone so far as atheism". At the time he thought of himself as agnostic.  However, today he would be a middle-of-the-roader Episcopalian.

It's significant that his long time friend was the paster of the Down church, Brodie Innes.  Innes never considered Darwin anything but a Christian.

As to studying, Darwin did initially study for the clergy. And the reason was that, at the time, there were no professional scientists like today.  All scientists had to have day jobs.  And most of them were Anglican ministers.  In the event, the fame and scientific standing that accrued to Darwin as a result of the Beagle voyage caused his rich doctor father to buy him a village.  Darwin was able to live off the rents paid to him and by the royalties from his books.

PS: I already posted the data refuting John's claim to "no evidence" for macroevolution in his thread on quotes from Darwin.
 
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