Did Christ come to forgive sins?

[mesue]

Disagree.

He came to glorify His Father.

Mission Accomplished.

God's plan from before the foundation of the world was His own Glory, not man's redemption.

Romans 3:24-26 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God; To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.

Disagree, well ... agree with and additional purpose.
Jesus states His purpose in Luke:
Luke 19:10 For the Son of man is come to seek and to save that which was lost.

 

[seebs]

I disagree. A debt cannot be forgiven until it is paid, otherwise it is still outstanding... unless the person owed dies...

No. That's not what "forgiven" means. A debt that is forgiven is erased without being paid.

 

[aReformedPatriot]

Disagree.

He came to glorify His Father.

Mission Accomplished.

God's plan from before the foundation of the world was His own Glory, not man's redemption.

Romans 3:24-26 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God; To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.

I'm not entirely sure that you can seperate the two. This is exactly what I was referring to above when I mentioned that it was "largely intertwined with so much more." Christ's mission was that which was foretold since the beggining of scripture, to be crucified and die for the redemption of all.

 

[GreenEyedLady]

So how does he give us eternal life? Doesn't it all come down to Christ dying on the cross so our sins can be forgiven... and thus have the free gift of eternal life?

Yes, this is true Jeff that we got eternal life through His death. But just saying that Christ came so that all of our sins might be forgiven is missing the mark a bit. The reason why I say this is because God forgave in the OT. The sins were paid for by the sacrifices made unto the Lord God Almighty. They did have thier sins forgiven, but did not recieve eternal life until Christ died. I hope this makes sense to you.
GEL

 

[JeffreyLloyd]

It does, and thank you

 

[TwinCrier]

No. That's not what "forgiven" means. A debt that is forgiven is erased without being paid.

So you are saying Jesus didn't pay our debt? He just said, whateva, fergitaboutit. So, what was that whole dyin on the cross thing about?
He paid a debt He did not owe, I owed a debt I could not pay.
I needed someone to wash my sins away.
And now I sing a brand new song, Amazing Grace.
Christ Jesus paid a debt that I could never pay.

 

[aReformedPatriot]

So you are saying Jesus didn't pay our debt? He just said, whateva, fergitaboutit. So, what was that whole dyin on the cross thing about?
He paid a debt He did not owe, I owed a debt I could not pay.
I needed someone to wash my sins away.
And now I sing a brand new song, Amazing Grace.
Christ Jesus paid a debt that I could never pay.

What can wash away my sins?
Nothing but the blood of Jesus
What can make me whole again?
Nothing but the blood of Jesus

 

[seebs]

So you are saying Jesus didn't pay our debt? He just said, whateva, fergitaboutit. So, what was that whole dyin on the cross thing about?

Well, here's the thing.

If, as you say, he paid the debt, then it was paid off, and that means it was not forgiven - it's not cancelled, it's paid. That's different.

Anyway, there are many models other than substitutionary atonement. If Jesus had died and that had been it, I might buy into "dying to pay debt". But He came back. The blank check for the price of our sins was returned uncashed.

I do not buy into the essential judicial model where sins have a fine and the fine has to be paid. Jesus said "I desire mercy, not sacrifice".

Ironically, it turns out my position on this is fairly close to Orthodox positions on the issue.

Anyway, paid is possible, forgiven is possible, but you can't have both. If a debt is paid off, then it hasn't been forgiven. To forgive a debt is to write it off without payment.

 

[SonOfThunder]

God knew
Jesus came as a sacrifice for the remiison of our sinful nature
the door is open to whosoever may come in.

James

 

[Andyman_1970]

I do not buy into the essential judicial model where sins have a fine and the fine has to be paid. Jesus said "I desire mercy, not sacrifice".

So Jesus wasn't a Torah observant Jew? (just yankin your chain............. )

 

[seebs]

So Jesus wasn't a Torah observant Jew? (just yankin your chain............. )

Not always.

[bible]Matthew 12:1-8[/bible]

 

[Andyman_1970]

Not always.

[bible]Matthew 12:1-8[/bible]

As a rabbi with s'mikah (authority in english) He could and did give a new interpretation of Torah. In that passage He also gives a new interpretation of the Sabbath which had been misused for a religious show instead of for it's orginal intent.

If Jesus was not Torah observant, He would have been a false Messiah.

 

[aReformedPatriot]

As a rabbi with s'mikah (authority in english) He could and did give a new interpretation of Torah. In that passage He also gives a new interpretation of the Sabbath which had been misused for a religious show instead of for it's orginal intent.

If Jesus was not Torah observant, He would have been a false Messiah.

 

[JeffreyLloyd]

Thanks everyone for your answers!