We are not discussing whether or not people continued to follow the Law but rather whether God had "abolished" the Law. What people actually did vis a vis the Law, therefore, is not the point, but rather whether God "wanted" people to stop following the Law.How can the law be abolished at the cross? When the Jews did not accept that Jesus was the Messiah and continued animal sacrifice until 70AD when Rome ended the practice for them?
No. You strongly implied that those of us who believe the Law is "retired" do not want to follow God's Law.I have done no such thing, just sharing scriptures.
Please quote me saying the commandments are only Ten, but they certainly include the Ten.
Paul clearly believes otherwise:The Spirit is not at odds with God’s law.
For the third time:The Spirit is given to help convict those who have not harden their hearts to the Truth and continue in sin -breaking the law 1 John 3:4, Romans 3:20 Romans 7:7
I do think it’s the primary law and stands on a whole other foundation. There are other laws, but I believe if one is keeping the Ten Commandments in Spirit (which also means the letter is being kept) they will be keeping the other laws as well, like the heath laws, or the greatest commandments which is summarized when you keep the Ten. God made a distinction with the Ten Commandments, He didn’t trust man to write His perfect law, He did so with His own finger and is in the ark of the covenant in the Most Holy where God dwells and revealed in Heaven Revelation 11:19. God made a distinction with the Ten Commandments and He revealed right in the Ten He shows mercy to thousands who love Him and keep His commandments. Exodus 20:6, which Jesus repeats almost verbatim John 14:15 and John 1 John 5:3Well you certainly talk about then as if they are "primary". You said, "...circumcision is not in the Ten Commandments, so not a primary law..." When actually circumcision actually is primary starting with Abram (Gen. 17:10).
I bring this up only because it initiates the Jewish people and their eventual Mosaic covenant. It, circumcision, has priority. And yet the early church decided that gentiles do not need this initiation, they do not need to become Jews. And while it is beneficial and strongly advised to live by Jewish morality, there are limits on the expectations for non-Jews since the laws and commandments, even the ten are not theirs. That does not mean they are free to murder. It only means that the context of their coincidently keeping them is different and not part of Mosaic covenant of which they were never party.
No. You strongly implied that those of us who believe the Law is "retired" do not want to follow God's Law.
That is a profound misrepresentation.
Am I certain that I understand everything in the Scriptures? No.First you thought it was the greatest commandments and now this verse. Seems like you’re not completely sure, but somehow you seem convinced the commandments that matters are not the Ten Commandments. It’s not the commandments God wrote with His own finger, the commandments that reveal sin Romans 7:7 that we will be judged on James 2:10-12, not the commandments that Jesus says if you keep the least of the these, you will be least in heaven- quoting directly from the Ten Matthew 5:17-30, not the commandments Jesus quoted from when asked how do I gain eternal life Matthew 19:17-19. Very interesting, I sure don’t see it that, so we will have to agree to disagree.
Looks like we are back where we started. Take care.
Thanks! I believe it because I think it's the obvious conclusion from the passage. Do you believe we are to take the offering that Moses commanded when our skin condition clears up?Okay Leaf, if thats what you believe. Take care.
Good points! I think that Galatians says that if a man is circumcised, he is then required to keep the entire law.How can the law be abolished at the cross? When the Jews did not accept that Jesus was the Messiah and continued animal sacrifice until 70AD when Rome ended the practice for them?
You realize that with the building of the third temple comes the practice of animal sacrifice once again? After all, to bless the ground for the Temple requires an unblemished Red Heifer that is sacrificed, burned and the ashes scattered over the temple mount.
The law may have ended according to Christian belief ....but still exists in Jewish belief.
We are all sharing scriptures. It's in the interpretations of the scriptures where we see things differently.I have done no such thing, just sharing scriptures. If taken that way definitely not my intention.
And what you call the true Israel? For them, did all laws end either at the cross or at the destruction of the Temple?For us in the Body of Christ, we were never under the Law at anytime.
For those Jews of the nation Israel, the destruction of the temple at AD 70 was a sign that their gospel of the circumcision was no longer valid. The only gospel that could save them was the gospel of the uncircumcision (Galatians 2:7-9)
Yes, non-Jews coincidentally keep many of the laws. That's a great way to put it.Well you certainly talk about then as if they are "primary". You said, "...circumcision is not in the Ten Commandments, so not a primary law..." When actually circumcision actually is primary starting with Abram (Gen. 17:10).
I bring this up only because it initiates the Jewish people and their eventual Mosaic covenant. It, circumcision, has priority. And yet the early church decided that gentiles do not need this initiation, they do not need to become Jews. And while it is beneficial and strongly advised to live by Jewish morality, there are limits on the expectations for non-Jews since the laws and commandments, even the ten are not theirs. That does not mean they are free to murder. It only means that the context of their coincidently keeping them is different and not part of Mosaic covenant of which they were never party.
How do the ten commandments lead a person to keep the health laws as well? This is an interesting idea, please expound.I do think it’s the primary law and stands on a whole other foundation. There are other laws, but I believe if one is keeping the Ten Commandments in Spirit (which also means the letter is being kept) they will be keeping the other laws as well, like the heath laws, or the greatest commandments which is summarized when you keep the Ten. God made a distinction with the Ten Commandments, He didn’t trust man to write His perfect law, He did so with His own finger and is in the ark of the covenant in the Most Holy where God dwells and revealed in Heaven Revelation 11:19. God made a distinction with the Ten Commandments and He revealed right in the Ten He shows mercy to thousands who love Him and keep His commandments. Exodus 20:6, which Jesus repeats almost verbatim John 14:15 and John 1 John 5:3
If you want to keep circumcision, that is not against the law, Paul says circumcision or uncircumcision that doesn’t matter, but what does matter is keeping the commandments of God. 1 Cor 7:19
John 14:15-18 does not help your case - Jesus says if that we love Him, we will keep His commandments. This is not the same as saying that if we love Him, we will follow the Law of Moses (which includes the 10). In fact, we know that Jesus rejects at least some elements of the Law of Moses. For example, He refuses the commandment to stone those caught in adultery....and the Spirit is given to those who want to keep the commandments John14:15-18 and given to those who obey. Acts 5:32.
Yes, non-Jews coincidentally keep many of the laws. That's a great way to put it.
Just like I coincidentally keep many of the laws of Canada, even though I don't live in Canada.
Well you certainly talk about then as if they are "primary". You said, "...circumcision is not in the Ten Commandments, so not a primary law..." When actually circumcision actually is primary starting with Abram (Gen. 17:10).
That does not mean they are free to murder. It only means that the context of their coincidently keeping them is different and not part of Mosaic covenant of which they were never party.
I understand where you are coming from but I believe you are not accounting for the fact that it is entirely coherent for God to retire the 10 commandments just at the time that He gifts us with a Spirit that enables us to understand that murder and adultery are wrong without needing to consult an external written code.Also when you see in scripture we should not murder , commit adultery or worship other gods etc all things you agree we should not do, this came from the commandments of God.
How do the ten commandments lead a person to keep the health laws as well? This is an interesting idea, please expound.
Well, yesterday you had two different interpretations, so that would lead one to the conclusion you might not be too sure. I am 100% sure when Paul says what matters is keeping the commandments of God, it most certainly includes the Ten Commandments. The commandments of God came in the Old Testament but God wrote those in our hearts and minds in the New Covenant Jeremiah 31:33, Hebrews 8:10 so the law of God did not end up in the New Covenant for the standard of Christian living randomly. You are free to believe that though as we are all given free will. I believe our time on this earth is short and we have time to make our decisions today and if we hear voice today, don't harden our hearts. We are called to worship Him in Truth and Spirit John 4:24-25 and Jesus in His own words tells us we worship in vain when we place mans traditions over the commandments of God quoting directly from the Ten. Mark 7:6-13, Matthew 15:3-9. God blessThanks! I believe it because I think it's the obvious conclusion from the passage. Do you believe we are to take the offering that Moses commanded when our skin condition clears up?
Is it a sin to be a leper? If not, maybe the offering for a cleansed leper is not a sin offering? In that case it still continues? Is that what you're saying?
So to not recognize the Authority of God and the Creator of all things including His law- I wonder how God's feels when people remove His authority and just say it's a coincidence.
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