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Did Christ at the cross end all the laws?

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expos4ever

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My simple point is that, at the book of Acts, no Jews from the nation of Israel would have thought that any of the Law of Moses was abolished.
Paul certainly believes the law of Moses were abolished. And, again, the fact some Jews did not believe it was abolished is certainly not evidence that it was not, in fact, abolished.
 
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expos4ever

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Just a few comments. . .

Love is fulfilled by our obedience to God's law,
It is not that simple, methinks.

There is something I have not brought up yet, although I believe at least one other poster has hinted at this. I suspect that the view I am about to articulate will not be popular even among those who have hitherto agreed with my view that the Law of Moses is "retired".

Paul believes that the Law of Mose actually makes the Jew more sinful than they would have been in the absence of the Law:

But sin, taking an opportunity through the commandment, produced in me coveting of every kind; for apart from the Law sin is dead

Note Paul's wording - the Law produced covetousness, not that it merely revealed covetousness.

There is a lot more that could be said in defence of this admittedly controversial claim. For the moment, I would caution readers as follows: watch out for when people bend the meaning of words in order to make a text fit with their point of view. Example: when people take Paul's statement that we no longer serve according to the Law of Moses and mangle it into a claim that we are no longer judged by the Law of Moses.

If Paul had meant to say that the Law merely revealed sin, he would have said so. It is critical to note that the fact that Paul indeed elsewhere says the Law also reveals sin does not, repeat does not, justify changing his wording here where he clearly claims that the law actually empowers sinful impulses. Both, of course, can be true.
 
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fhansen

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Christ came to fulfill the law, not to abolish it, to condemn sin in the flesh so that we may die to the flesh and fulfill the law as well but the right way now, in union with Him, by grace, by the Spirit, through the love He "pours out into our hearts" which overcomes sin and fulfulls the law by its nature.
 
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SabbathBlessings

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That would make the post you are replying be in contradiction. Fulfill does not mean destroy and the complete opposite of what Jesus said. Matthew 5:17. Fulfill means to fill-full. When one fulfills their marriage vows does that mean they are keeping it or free to commit adultery? It means to keep which is why Jesus goes on to say those who keep the commandments will be called great, but those who don't will be "least in heaven". I don't think least means you will be there, but we have free will to find out. . .
 
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fhansen

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My post, edited before I read this, includes the fact that Jesus came, again, to fulfill the law, not to abolish it. And nothing in the post contradicted what you write here anyway. We must fullfill it too. One who loves with His love does not commit adultery, whether they've heard the law or not.
 
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SabbathBlessings

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We fulfill, when we obey, not disobey.

The good news is we have access to bibles, so we do know God's law. It's always best to obey on His terms, not on ours (which laws we are okay with).
 
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expos4ever

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About what it means to "fulfill".

To fulfill "X" can, repeat, can entail the retirement of X.

It is incorrect logic to argue that since Jesus He came to fulfill the Law, this means the Law is therefore still in force.

Example: If I graduate with a Bachelor's degree, I have "fulfilled" my goal in going to college. Do I stay at college after getting the degree? Of course not.
 
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fhansen

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Ok, I see that. Most use "fulfill" to mean as the exact opposite of what Jesus taught.
While we may have an issue with how one of the laws is fulfilled, the ancient churches have unanimously upheld the teaching that the ten commandments are obligatory.
 
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SabbathBlessings

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While we may have an issue with how one of the laws is fulfilled, the ancient churches have unanimously upheld the teaching that the ten commandments are obligatory.
I can agree with this statement for the most part, but I think we should always go with scriptures over churches, but that's a whole other discussion.

I am sorry I misunderstood your post earlier. I appreciate your comments.

God bless!
 
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SabbathBlessings

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A flower fulfills the potential of the seed though it looks nothing like it.
A flower when nurtured with proper food, water and sunlight fulfills its blooms exactly how God intended when He created it. Same goes for us, when we are nurtured through and follow His Word His Spirit leads us to full bloom, the way God intended for us. Walking in Christ in obedience, which the Spirit is given. John 14:15-18, Acts 2:38, Acts 5:32
 
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Clare73

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What a wonderful promise. The commandments of God are not meant to be burdensome 1 John 5:3 but they are meant to be kept through love, which is what walking in the Spirit is all about.

God bless
They are counted as kept perfectly in Biblical loving of God and of neighbor.

With you, love is keeping the commandments, whereas
in the NT, love is counted as keeping (fulfillment of) the commandments perfectly (Romans 13:8-10).
 
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SabbathBlessings

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They are counted as kept perfectly in Biblical loving of God and of neighbor.

With you, love is keeping the commandments, whereas
in the NT, love is counted as keeping (fulfilling) the commandments (Romans 13:8-10).
It's not me, Jesus said it with His own lips.

If you love Me, keep My commandments. John 14:15

John said it too For this IS the love of God, that we keep His commandments. 1 John 5:3

Quoted right from the Ten, showing mercy to those who love Me, and keep My commandments. Exodus 20:6

Love is counted when you keep (fulfill) the commandments, not breaking them, that is not love according to scripture. This is what that is:

1 John 2:3 Now by this we know that we know Him, if we keep His commandments. 4 He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. 5 But whoever keeps His word, truly the love of God is perfected in him. By this we know that we are in Him. 6 He who says he abides in Him ought himself also to walk just as He walked.
 
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Clare73

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My simple point is that, at the book of Acts, no Jews from the nation of Israel would have thought that any of the Law of Moses was abolished.
See Acts 15, where the contingent from Jerusalem required only circumcision, not the whole law.
 
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Clare73

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It's not me, Jesus said it with His own lips.

If you love Me,
keep My commandments. John 14:15
You should know better than to set Jesus against himself along with the Apostle Paul in
Matthew 22:37-40 and Romans 13:8-10.
 
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SabbathBlessings

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You should know better than to set Jesus against himself along with the Apostle Paul in
Matthew 22:37-40 and Romans 13:8-10.
So you're saying when Jesus said If you love Me, keep My commandments, that means the opposite? Fulfilling the commandments, means breaking, not keeping like Jesus , God and the apostles so plainly stated?

If you love Me, keep, [break] My commandments.

For this IS the love of God, that we keep His commandments. 1 John 5:3

Quoted right from the Ten, showing mercy to those who love Me, and keep My commandments. Exodus 20:6

Love should be leading us to obedience, not disobedience.

I'll stick with the scriptures, we should not be altering one Word. Proverbs 30:5-6
 
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Akita Suggagaki

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We can't discuss the Sabbath here per the forum guidelines- I have reminded you a few time.

Adventists follows the commandments because it is written.

Yes, Written to the Jews.
 
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SabbathBlessings

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Yes, Written to the Jews.
You keep saying this, despite scripture showing Gentiles are grafted into the Covenant Promise. I would not want to write myself out of the covenant, but we have free will.
 
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