Did Adam and Eve have a belly button?

Jazer · Oct 22, 2011

SkyWriting said:
Science can't date mummies. That's with the entire preserved body to work with. Why would I trust any of your numbers?

I am talking about population genetics. I would assume you have heard of the Out of Africa Adam and Eve. It is not me you have a arguement with, Science tells us that the Hebrew people have a common ancestor that lives in the Middle East 6,000 years ago. Everything science comes up with confirms that the Bible is true. If you want to reject science that is up to you.

Are you perhaps questioning the mutation rate that science has decided to use for population genetics? Perhaps you think it is faster or slower then what Science currently believes it to be.

SkyWriting · Oct 23, 2011

Jazer said:
I am talking about population genetics. I would assume you have heard of the Out of Africa Adam and Eve. It is not me you have a arguement with, Science tells us that the Hebrew people have a common ancestor that lives in the Middle East 6,000 years ago. Everything science comes up with confirms that the Bible is true. If you want to reject science that is up to you. Are you perhaps questioning the mutation rate that science has decided to use for population genetics? Perhaps you think it is faster or slower then what Science currently believes it to be.

Do I question the faith system you just illustrated. Yes. I believe it is in everyone's best interest to question ALL assumptions about the past.

The steps of the scientific method are to:
- Ask a Question
- Do Background Research
- Construct a Hypothesis
- Test Your Hypothesis by Doing an Experiment
- Analyze Your Data and Draw a Conclusion
- Communicate Your Results
It is important for your experiment to be a fair test. A "fair test" occurs when you change only one factor (variable) and keep all other conditions the same.
Steps of the Scientific Method

SkyWriting · Oct 23, 2011

jayem said:
Maybe that's the answer. Since Adam and Eve were created and not born, they had no navels. They remained so as long as they were sinless. But after the Fall, they were marked with an umbilical scar, as a sign of their disobedience and mortality. Like Cain was marked as a murderer.

There are no reasons to support that, but it would make an interesting twist in a movie version.

dad · Oct 23, 2011

Jazer said:
In a way it makes you a non dispensationist. If the 1000 year reign of Christ is 1000 years, then why not a church age that is 2000 years.

How long believers in Christ would be on the earth till He returned for us cannot be any reason to play with the three days He was dead.

No one really knows for sure when Jesus was born. We can narrow it down a little bit. They seem to agree that the current date of His birth in the years 0 does not seem to be accurate.

OK. But I think that tossing out some year as a year when Jesus returns, like 2030 is not healthy.

Loudmouth · Oct 24, 2011

SkyWriting said:
Not exactly.

Could you expand on this?

But Jesus did bring people back from the dead, suggesting to any logical person that they were never dead at all.

This is the exact opposite of what we are discussing. We are not talking about erasing a history of an event, but creating false evidence of a history that did not occur. Jesus did not rais the dead and give them scars from injuries that they did not suffer. Jesus did not create scars that exactly match a bite from a dog for no other reason than to make it look like the person was bitten by a dog, did he?

So God seems to over-rule human logic. Which is natural.

I will agree that christian theology defies all logic. Once you use Omphalos type arguments to explain away inconvenient evidence the return to logical arguments is impossible.

Loudmouth · Oct 24, 2011

Jazer said:
It is not me you have a arguement with, Science tells us that the Hebrew people have a common ancestor that lives in the Middle East 6,000 years ago.

It also tells us that this person was part of a larger population just like any person in any modern population. MRCA's are only produced in retrospect. 6,000 years ago you would not have been able to pick this MRCA out of the crowd. Like I have told you multiple times, MRCA's are not the result of a single founder of an entire population. MRCA's are the result of lineage extinction and pedigree collapse.

AV1611VET · Oct 24, 2011

Loudmouth said:
This is the exact opposite of what we are discussing. We are not talking about erasing a history of an event, but creating...

From the OP:

RomanSoldier said:
Forget about creation...

Mike Elphick · Oct 25, 2011

Although they brush if off, the universes apparent age is a major problem for those claiming a six-day creation.

Philip Henry Gosse, wrote a book with the title Ompaholos in which he argued that for a functional Earth at the time of creation it must have been formed with running water, mountains and canyons, trees with growth rings etc. Adam and Eve would have had hair, fingernails and navels, But there would be no evidence for their age or the age of the earth.

Omphalos is a universe, which was created in six days, but with an apparent older age and apparent history built in so as to make it a working, mature system. By "apparent" I mean that whatever tests of age and history are applied, today and at creation, the measurements will consistently show an age and history of great antiquity, many millions of times greater than the chronological age and history at the point of creation. In creationist terms, it had age and history embedded into it. And this is where it becomes unacceptable to modern-day creationists, because it implies deception on the part of God. Either something is old or it is not God cannot tell a lie.

<--->

Whatever they say, young Earth creationism demands embedded age and embedded history, neither of which they can fully explain.
Omphalos

LittleLambofJesus · Oct 25, 2011

Originally Posted by jayem

Maybe that's the answer. Since Adam and Eve were created and not born, they had no navels. They remained so as long as they were sinless.

But after the Fall, they were marked with an umbilical scar, as a sign of their disobedience and mortality. Like Cain was marked as a murderer.

SkyWriting said:
There are no reasons to support that, but it would make an interesting twist in a movie version.

I have not heard of that nonsense either until just now

AV1611VET · Oct 25, 2011

Mike Elphick said:
Although they brush if off, the universe’s apparent age is a major problem for those claiming a six-day creation.

Don't count on it.

I know from experience that it's you guys who have 'major problems' with it -- not us.

Of course, you guys have 'major problems' with any creation paradigm -- so let's not just pick on the six-dayers, eh.

sk8Joyful · Oct 25, 2011

SkyWriting said:
Do I question the faith system you just illustrated. Yes. I believe it is in everyone's best interest to question ALL assumptions about the past.

The steps of the scientific method are to:

Ask a Question

Do Background Research

Construct a Hypothesis

Test Your Hypothesis by Doing an Experiment

Analyze Your Data and Draw a Conclusion

Communicate Your Results

It is important for your experiment to be a fair test. A "fair test" occurs when you change only one factor (variable) and keep all other conditions the same.

Steps of the Scientific Method

Yes, in our Homeschooling we use the scientific "method" you describe, as well for many things.

However, once you Change any variables, you are doing a NEW-experiment.

AND

Many experiments we commonly & routinely do, Traditional-science CANT yet grasp, nor is it bothering to replicate - because the "experience" is still by them rejected, so they lack the Requisite experience, & therefore a Common language, and
therefore also the success...
.

Jazer · Oct 25, 2011

dad said:
How long believers in Christ would be on the earth till He returned for us cannot be any reason to play with the three days He was dead.

Have you studied every passage in the Bible that talks about the third day and the seventh day?

LittleLambofJesus · Oct 25, 2011

AV1611VET said:
Don't count on it.

I know from experience that it's you guys who have 'major problems' with it -- not us.

Of course, you guys have 'major problems' with any creation paradigm -- so let's not just pick on the six-dayers, eh.

Don't leave out the seventh-dayers

http://www.olivetree.com/cgi-bin/EnglishBible.htm

NKJV) Genesis 2:1 Thus the heavens and the earth, and all the host of them, were finished.
2 And on the seventh day God ended His work which He had done, and He rested on the seventh day from all His work which He had done.
3 Then God blessed the seventh day and sanctified it, because in it He rested from all His work which God had created and made.

Matt 24:19 "Woe yet to those in belly having and to those suckling in those the days! 20 Be ye praying yet that no may be becoming the flight of ye of winter neither a Sabbath/sabbatw <4521>"

http://www.christianforums.com/t6982465-107/#post44368491
Is Sunday worship the mark of the beast?

Is Sunday worship the mark of the beast? I am becoming convinced that the 7th day adventists might be right about this after all (I'm not an adventist, we don't have that religion over here)..

sk8Joyful · Oct 25, 2011

LittleLambofJesus said:
Did Adam and Eve have a belly button?

What I would like to know is, why do some have an "inny" and some an "outie" belly button

Searches on "belly button" and related phrases
revealed that no one knows for sure why some people have a concave belly button while others have one that sticks out.
Ah, one of the great mysteries of life!

Mysteries are only UNknown phenomena, when you don't consider
the various factors that produced them;
such as -
1. Maternal Imprinting...
& subsequently
2. Each UNborn's choices...

See, Traditional-science (as a religion) has taught you to believe,
that how it does things by their "method" is the ONLY valid one available.
But you can, just by this above example, realize their inherent Limitations.

IF they really knew, then you would no longer need
to call it a "mystery", for you would KNOW the answer

LittleLambofJesus · Oct 25, 2011

sk8Joyful said:
Mysteries are only UNknown phenomena, when you don't consider
the various factors that produced them;
such as -
1. Maternal Imprinting...
& subsequently
2. Each UNborn's choices...

See, Traditional-science (as a religion) has taught you to believe, that how it does things by their "method" is the ONLY valid one available. But you can, just by this above example, realize their inherent Limitations.

IF they really knew, then you would no longer need
to call it a "mystery", for you would KNOW the answer

The carnal cannot understand the spiritual "mysteries" of God....that's a fact

Mark 4:11 and He said to them "to ye the Mystery has been given of the Kingdom of the God. To those yet, the-ones outside, in parables the all is becoming".

Colo 1:26 The Mystery having been Hid from the ages and from the generations, now yet was made manifest to the holy-ones of Him.
27 To-whom wills, the God, to make known any the riches of the glory of this, the Mystery, in the Nations, which is Christ in ye, the hope of glory.
[Revelation 10:7]
　
Revelation 10:7 But in the days of the voice of the seventh Messenger, whenever He may be being about to be trumpeting,
also is finish the Mystery of the God as He brings Well-Message to His bond-servants the prophets.

Spirits in the Material World - The Police - YouTube

sk8Joyful · Oct 25, 2011

See, God KNOWS WHAT HE'S TALKING ABOUT:

1. The carnal (evolution-scientists; & all others, swallowing their dogma in varying degrees),
CANNOT
understand the spiritual, or any other "mysteries" of God....that's a fact.

2. To UNDERSTAND, (what to the 1st. are only "mysteries"),
you must have another MODEL to follow... A model that can provide you with Accurate answers.

Thanks, LLoJ for giving the Relevant scriptures on these Truths!...
.

steve_bakr · Oct 25, 2011

Of course they had belly buttons.

"The heavens declare the glory of the Lord" (Psalms 19:2a)

Skaloop · Oct 25, 2011

steve_bakr said:
Of course they had belly buttons.

"The heavens declare the glory of the Lord" (Psalms 19:2a)

I don't see how that verse relates at all to the issue of belly buttons.

Loudmouth · Oct 25, 2011

AV1611VET said:
Don't count on it.

So says the Disciple of Phillip Henry Gosse. It is such a problem that you have to resort to Last Thursdayism.

steve_bakr · Oct 25, 2011

Skaloop said:
I don't see how that verse relates at all to the issue of belly buttons.

LOL, it's my signature verse.

"The heavens declare the glory of the Lord" (Psalms 19:2a)

Did Adam and Eve have a belly button?

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