Did Abraham observe the Sabbath day?

ralliann · Jul 23, 2023

BNR32FAN said:
I agree that the priests did add to the law in some cases

It was the Pharisees that did this.

BNR32FAN said:
like for example they had to determine what was considered to be work. Obviously since God had specifically commanded that they do not work on the Sabbath even during the harvest season that explicitly meant do not harvest on the sabbath. Anyone with open eyes can see that.

Read, Josephus on the authority of the priesthood in deciding law, as well as scripture itself in Deuteronomy 17. Nothing from the seat of Moses was law without the consent of the high priest.
Their was no Rabbinic Oral law in Jesus day. that was traditions only. Law at the mouth came from the seat of moses.
Deut 17:8 If there arise a matter too hard for thee in judgment, between blood and blood, between plea and plea, and between stroke and stroke, being matters of controversy within thy gates: then shalt thou arise, and get thee up into the place which the LORD thy God shall choose;
9 And thou shalt come unto the priests the Levites, and unto the judge that shall be in those days, and enquire; and they shall shew thee the sentence of judgment:

I have copied and pasted the Hebrew strongs

10 And thou shalt do according to the sentence, sentence <06310> <01697>, which they of that place which the LORD shall choose shall shew thee; and thou shalt observe to do according to all that they inform thee:

06310 is literally mouth 01697 word
word of their mouth (ie oral)

SabbathBlessings · Jul 24, 2023

BNR32FAN said:
No you didn’t address it you’re just dismissing the facts. You can’t sit there and say He was quoting the 10 commandments when He quoted 2 of the 10 commandments and 3 other commandments that were not part of the 10. He was quoting the law not exclusively the 10 commandments.

I don't feel like I am dismissing the facts.

This is what I believe based on the scriptures.

Isaiah 42:21 KJV The Lord is well pleased for his righteousness' sake; he will magnify the law, and make it honourable.

We are told by the Prophet Isaiah that Jesus is coming to magnify the law, which is not the definition to make smaller. I think Isaiah is a trustworthy source so we should know from this scripture Jesus is not coming to make the law go away or make it smaller.

When Jesus preached, He warned us about breaking or teaching others to break the least of the commandments. He than immediately quotes from the Ten Commandments, that God placed together in a unit of Ten that no man can separate by adding to it or taking from it. Deut 4:2 because these are the works of God Exodus 32:16 and man is not above God.

19 Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20 For I say to you, that unless your righteousness exceeds the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, you will by no means enter the kingdom of heaven. 21 “You have heard that it was said to those of old, ‘You shall not murder, and whoever murders will be in danger of the judgment.’ 22 But I say to you that whoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment. And whoever says to his brother, ‘Raca!’ shall be in danger of the council. But whoever says, ‘You fool!’ shall be in danger of hell fire. 23 Therefore if you bring your gift to the altar, and there remember that your brother has something against you, 24 leave your gift there before the altar, and go your way. First be reconciled to your brother, and then come and offer your gift. 25 Agree with your adversary quickly, while you are on the way with him, lest your adversary deliver you to the judge, the judge hand you over to the officer, and you be thrown into prison. 26 Assuredly, I say to you, you will by no means get out of there till you have paid the last penny. 27 “You have heard that it was said to those of old, ‘You shall not commit adultery.’ 28 But I say to you that whoever looks at a woman to lust for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart. 29 If your right eye causes you to sin, pluck it out and cast it from you; for it is more profitable for you that one of your members perish, than for your whole body to be cast into hell. 30 And if your right hand causes you to sin, cut it off and cast it from you; for it is more profitable for you that one of your members perish, than for your whole body to be cast into hell.

Jesus is teaching for us not to break the least of the commandments and then directly quotes from this unit of Ten that was personally and divinely written by God. Kept in the Most Holy of His Temple, which is revealed in heaven Rev 11:19 and what the earthy temple was modeled after. Hebrews 8:5 so we know no editing can be allowed.

When we look at the Ten which Jesus just said not to break the least of the commandments, I would not come up with the Sabbath being a "least commandment" It's the only commandment God said to "Remember" and it's the only commandment that God blessed and made holy. It also is the only commandment that deals with our time, which is why the devil attacks the Sabbath commandment so much because he does not want people spending time with God on the day God sanctified to do so because man cannot sanctify themselves, only God can Eze 20:12 but yet people still try. We are told to be holy as God is holy 1 Peter 1:16 and something God made holy and blessed is not something that can be reversed by man. Num 23:20

Also you will notice from this passage that it fulfills the prophecy of Isaiah that Jesus came to magnify the law, not once does it say He came to do away with one of the Ten Commandments, amplified means to make greater. Jesus wants us changed from the inside out and so its not just about the physical acts of adultery or murder it starts in our heart.. If our heart is right with Jesus we no longer focus on thoughts of adultery, divorce, anger or contempt its replaced with love, peace, joy and compassion and in doing so these commandments are fulfilled and the letter is automatically kept. This is what it means to walk in the Spirit and when someone does, they are not an enmity to God or His laws. Romans 8:4-8

ralliann · Jul 24, 2023

SabbathBlessings said:
I don't feel like I am dismissing the facts.

This is what I believe based on the scriptures.

Isaiah 42:21 KJV The Lord is well pleased for his righteousness' sake; he will magnify the law, and make it honourable.

We are told by the Prophet Isaiah that Jesus is coming to magnify the law,

Yes. And he did.
Ga 4:21 Tell me, ye that desire to be under the law, do ye not hear the law?
The Abrahamic covenants are also law.

SabbathBlessings said:
which is not the definition to make smaller.

Who is making it smaller? What is whole law?
What does the Apostle Paul speak of here as the law?
1. He speaks of Abraham and the covenants as law, and hearing it.

SabbathBlessings said:
I think Isaiah is a trustworthy source so we should know from this scripture Jesus is not coming to make the law go away or make it smaller.

No he didn't. You do. All you speak of is the law given to Moses for Israel. You don't speak of the Abrahamic covenant promises . What you are doing is making Israel larger, magnifying Israel.

SabbathBlessings said:
When Jesus preached, He warned us about breaking or teaching others to break the least of the commandments. He than immediately quotes from the Ten Commandments, that God placed together in a unit of Ten that no man can separate by adding to it or taking from it. Deut 4:2 because these are the works of God Exodus 32:16 and man is not above God.

19 Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20 For I say to you, that unless your righteousness exceeds the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, you will by no means enter the kingdom of heaven. 21 “You have heard that it was said to those of old, ‘You shall not murder, and whoever murders will be in danger of the judgment.’ 22 But I say to you that whoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment. And whoever says to his brother, ‘Raca!’ shall be in danger of the council. But whoever says, ‘You fool!’ shall be in danger of hell fire. 23 Therefore if you bring your gift to the altar, and there remember that your brother has something against you, 24 leave your gift there before the altar, and go your way. First be reconciled to your brother, and then come and offer your gift. 25 Agree with your adversary quickly, while you are on the way with him, lest your adversary deliver you to the judge, the judge hand you over to the officer, and you be thrown into prison. 26 Assuredly, I say to you, you will by no means get out of there till you have paid the last penny. 27 “You have heard that it was said to those of old, ‘You shall not commit adultery.’ 28 But I say to you that whoever looks at a woman to lust for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart. 29 If your right eye causes you to sin, pluck it out and cast it from you; for it is more profitable for you that one of your members perish, than for your whole body to be cast into hell. 30 And if your right hand causes you to sin, cut it off and cast it from you; for it is more profitable for you that one of your members perish, than for your whole body to be cast into hell.

Jesus is teaching for us not to break the least of the commandments and then directly quotes from this unit of Ten that was personally and divinely written by God. Kept in the Most Holy of His Temple, which is revealed in heaven Rev 11:19 and what the earthy temple was modeled after. Hebrews 8:5 so we know no editing can be allowed.

When we look at the Ten which Jesus just said not to break the least of the commandments, I would not come up with the Sabbath being a "least commandment" It's the only commandment God said to "Remember" and it's the only commandment that God blessed and made holy. It also is the only commandment that deals with our time, which is why the devil attacks the Sabbath commandment so much because he does not want people spending time with God on the day God sanctified to do so because man cannot sanctify themselves, only God can Eze 20:12 but yet people still try. We are told to be holy as God is holy 1 Peter 1:16 and something God made holy and blessed is not something that can be reversed by man. Num 23:20

Also you will notice from this passage that it fulfills the prophecy of Isaiah that Jesus came to magnify the law, not once does it say He came to do away with one of the Ten Commandments, amplified means to make greater. Jesus wants us changed from the inside out and so its not just about the physical acts of adultery or murder it starts in our heart.. If our heart is right with Jesus we no longer focus on thoughts of adultery, divorce, anger or contempt its replaced with love, peace, joy and compassion and in doing so these commandments are fulfilled and the letter is automatically kept. This is what it means to walk in the Spirit and when someone does, they are not an enmity to God or His laws. Romans 8:4-8

Every which way you reduce it to Israel.

Isa 30:9 That this is a rebellious people, lying children, children that will not hear the law of the LORD:
Zec 7:12 Yea, they made their hearts as an adamant stone, lest they should hear the law, and the words which the LORD of hosts hath sent in his spirit by the former prophets: therefore came a great wrath from the LORD of hosts.

If not for the Abrahamic covenants none of us would exist.

SabbathBlessings · Jul 24, 2023

ralliann said:
Yes. And he did.
Ga 4:21 Tell me, ye that desire to be under the law, do ye not hear the law?
The Abrahamic covenants are also law.

Who is making it smaller? What is whole law?
What does the Apostle Paul speak of here as the law?
1. He speaks of Abraham and the covenants as law, and hearing it.

No he didn't. You do. All you speak of is the law given to Moses for Israel. You don't speak of the Abrahamic covenant promises . What you are doing is making Israel larger, magnifying Israel.

Every which way you reduce it to Israel.

Isa 30:9 That this is a rebellious people, lying children, children that will not hear the law of the LORD:
Zec 7:12 Yea, they made their hearts as an adamant stone, lest they should hear the law, and the words which the LORD of hosts hath sent in his spirit by the former prophets: therefore came a great wrath from the LORD of hosts.

If not for the Abrahamic covenants none of us would exist.

God made a covenant with Abrahm, but a covenant is not a set of laws, it is an agreement. It's silly to think because God made an agreement with Abraham about mutiplying that Abraham did not keep God's commandments. Scripture says otherwise, because Abraham is one of God's people and God's people keep God's laws through love and faith.

Genesis 26:5 because Abraham obeyed My voice and kept My charge, My commandments, My statutes, and My laws.”

What are God's commandments according to God?

20 And God spoke [and wrote Exodus 31:18] all these words, saying:

2 “I am the Lord your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of [a]bondage.
3 “You shall have no other gods before Me.
4 “You shall not make for yourself a carved image—any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth; 5 you shall not bow down to them nor serve them. For I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children to the third and fourth generations of those who hate Me, 6 but showing mercy to thousands, to those who love Me and keep My commandments.
7 “You shall not take the name of the Lord your God in vain, for the Lord will not hold him guiltless who takes His name in vain.
8 “Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. 9 Six days you shall labor and do all your work, 10 but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord your God. In it you shall do no work: you, nor your son, nor your daughter, nor your male servant, nor your female servant, nor your cattle, nor your stranger who is within your gates. 11 For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it.
12 “Honor your father and your mother, that your days may be long upon the land which the Lord your God is giving you.
13 “You shall not murder.
14 “You shall not commit adultery.
15 “You shall not steal.
16 “You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.
17 “You shall not covet your neighbor’s house; you shall not covet your neighbor’s wife, nor his male servant, nor his female servant, nor his ox, nor his donkey, nor anything that is your neighbor’s.”

Sad you teach to break the least of these commandments- Jesus told us not to Matthew 5:19-30 and told us to obey the commandments of God quoting right from this unit of Ten over the commandments of man, Matthew 15:3-9 and even says false worship is obeying man over the commandments of God.

Did Jesus reduce these commandments only to Israel or did He teach us to keep them through love just as how they were written- from love and love to God is, keeping His commandments 1 John 5:3 is the full duty of man Ecc 12:13 and Paul said they are what matter 1 Cor 7:19 so your disagreement on God's eternal Ten Commandments is not with me and sorry you don't see that, but I will pray that one day you will because they are not going away for the people of God. Rev 14:12 Rev 22:14-15. Israel is just a name God gave to identify His people and we do not have to be of physical Israel to be part of His covenant promise we are grafted in through faith Gal 3:26-28 and those with faith uphold the law Romans 3:31 Rev 14:12

ralliann · Jul 24, 2023

SabbathBlessings said:
God made a covenant with Abrahm, but a covenant is not a set of laws, it is an agreement. It's silly to think because God made an agreement with Abraham about mutiplying that Abraham did not keep God's commandments. Scripture says otherwise, because Abraham is one of God's people and God's people keep God's laws through love and faith.

Genesis 26:5 because Abraham obeyed My voice and kept My charge, My commandments, My statutes, and My laws.”

What are God's commandments according to God?

20 And God spoke [and wrote Exodus 31:18] all these words, saying:

2 “I am the Lord your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of [a]bondage.
3 “You shall have no other gods before Me.
4 “You shall not make for yourself a carved image—any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth; 5 you shall not bow down to them nor serve them. For I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children to the third and fourth generations of those who hate Me, 6 but showing mercy to thousands, to those who love Me and keep My commandments.
7 “You shall not take the name of the Lord your God in vain, for the Lord will not hold him guiltless who takes His name in vain.
8 “Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. 9 Six days you shall labor and do all your work, 10 but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord your God. In it you shall do no work: you, nor your son, nor your daughter, nor your male servant, nor your female servant, nor your cattle, nor your stranger who is within your gates. 11 For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it.
12 “Honor your father and your mother, that your days may be long upon the land which the Lord your God is giving you.
13 “You shall not murder.
14 “You shall not commit adultery.
15 “You shall not steal.
16 “You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.
17 “You shall not covet your neighbor’s house; you shall not covet your neighbor’s wife, nor his male servant, nor his female servant, nor his ox, nor his donkey, nor anything that is your neighbor’s.”

Sad you teach to break the least of these commandments- Jesus told us not to Matthew 5:19-30 and told us to obey the commandments of God quoting right from this unit of Ten over the commandments of man, Matthew 15:3-9 and even says false worship is obeying man over the commandments of God.

Did Jesus reduce these commandments Israel or did He teach us to keep them through love just as how they were written- from love and love to God is, keeping His commandments 1 John 5:3 is the full duty of man Ecc 12:13 and Paul said they are what matter 1 Cor 7:19 so your disagreement on God's eternal Ten Commandments is not with me and sorry you don't see that, but I will pray that one day you will because they are not going away for the people of God. Rev 14:12 Rev 22:14-15

You reduce it to a law that was added 430 years after. Abraham, As did Noah, kept the law of faith.
God made promises to our father Abraham under that law. It includes Gentiles. therefore
Ro 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

SabbathBlessings · Jul 24, 2023

ralliann said:
You reduce it to a law that was added 430 years after. Abraham, As did Noah, kept the law of faith.
God made promises to our father Abraham under that law. It includes Gentiles. therefore
Ro 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

Where does it say the Ten Commandments was added 430 years later. That is not in the scripture, this is not the law that was added 430 years later. Cain killed Abel and said it was sin to murder, which law reveals it is a sin to murder?

The Ten Commandments have always been. Where there is no law there is no transgression Romans 4:15, which means God's law has aways been in heaven because the devil sinned from the beginning meaning He broke God's law from the beginning. Sin is the transgression of the law 1 John 3:4 and Paul quotes from the Ten Commandments that is the law which reveals sin Romans 7:7 the same law that is also revealed in heaven Rev 11:19 because the earthy temple was modeled after God's heavenly Temple Heb 8:5 your argument here isn't with me and Romans 3:31 is not helping your case that we are free to worship other gods, or vain God's holy name or break God's holy Sabbath day or bow to false idols, murder, covet, or break any of these commandments that God placed together in a unit of Ten as these are the divine works of God Exodus 32:16 that no man has authority to add to them or take from them Deut 4:2 because man is not above God. or is His ways above God's ways.

BNR32FAN · Jul 24, 2023

SabbathBlessings said:
I don't feel like I am dismissing the facts.

This is what I believe based on the scriptures.

Isaiah 42:21 KJV The Lord is well pleased for his righteousness' sake; he will magnify the law, and make it honourable.

We are told by the Prophet Isaiah that Jesus is coming to magnify the law, which is not the definition to make smaller. I think Isaiah is a trustworthy source so we should know from this scripture Jesus is not coming to make the law go away or make it smaller.

When Jesus preached, He warned us about breaking or teaching others to break the least of the commandments. He than immediately quotes from the Ten Commandments, that God placed together in a unit of Ten that no man can separate by adding to it or taking from it. Deut 4:2 because these are the works of God Exodus 32:16 and man is not above God.

19 Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20 For I say to you, that unless your righteousness exceeds the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, you will by no means enter the kingdom of heaven. 21 “You have heard that it was said to those of old, ‘You shall not murder, and whoever murders will be in danger of the judgment.’ 22 But I say to you that whoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment. And whoever says to his brother, ‘Raca!’ shall be in danger of the council. But whoever says, ‘You fool!’ shall be in danger of hell fire. 23 Therefore if you bring your gift to the altar, and there remember that your brother has something against you, 24 leave your gift there before the altar, and go your way. First be reconciled to your brother, and then come and offer your gift. 25 Agree with your adversary quickly, while you are on the way with him, lest your adversary deliver you to the judge, the judge hand you over to the officer, and you be thrown into prison. 26 Assuredly, I say to you, you will by no means get out of there till you have paid the last penny. 27 “You have heard that it was said to those of old, ‘You shall not commit adultery.’ 28 But I say to you that whoever looks at a woman to lust for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart. 29 If your right eye causes you to sin, pluck it out and cast it from you; for it is more profitable for you that one of your members perish, than for your whole body to be cast into hell. 30 And if your right hand causes you to sin, cut it off and cast it from you; for it is more profitable for you that one of your members perish, than for your whole body to be cast into hell.

Jesus is teaching for us not to break the least of the commandments and then directly quotes from this unit of Ten that was personally and divinely written by God. Kept in the Most Holy of His Temple, which is revealed in heaven Rev 11:19 and what the earthy temple was modeled after. Hebrews 8:5 so we know no editing can be allowed.

When we look at the Ten which Jesus just said not to break the least of the commandments, I would not come up with the Sabbath being a "least commandment" It's the only commandment God said to "Remember" and it's the only commandment that God blessed and made holy. It also is the only commandment that deals with our time, which is why the devil attacks the Sabbath commandment so much because he does not want people spending time with God on the day God sanctified to do so because man cannot sanctify themselves, only God can Eze 20:12 but yet people still try. We are told to be holy as God is holy 1 Peter 1:16 and something God made holy and blessed is not something that can be reversed by man. Num 23:20

Also you will notice from this passage that it fulfills the prophecy of Isaiah that Jesus came to magnify the law, not once does it say He came to do away with one of the Ten Commandments, amplified means to make greater. Jesus wants us changed from the inside out and so its not just about the physical acts of adultery or murder it starts in our heart.. If our heart is right with Jesus we no longer focus on thoughts of adultery, divorce, anger or contempt its replaced with love, peace, joy and compassion and in doing so these commandments are fulfilled and the letter is automatically kept. This is what it means to walk in the Spirit and when someone does, they are not an enmity to God or His laws. Romans 8:4-8

How can you quote Hebrews 8:5 and claim that it’s somehow saying that the 10 commandments are unchangeable? There’s nothing in this passage that mentions the 10 commandments being unchangeable however it does mention that the Jesus brought us a MORE EXCELLENT ministry than Moses and that He is the mediator of a BETTER covenant. That right there explicitly shows the change from Moses’ ministry to Jesus’ ministry.

“For every high priest is appointed to offer both gifts and sacrifices; so it is necessary that this high priest also have something to offer. Now if He were on earth, He would not be a priest at all, since there are those who offer the gifts according to the Law; who serve a copy and shadow of the heavenly things, just as Moses was warned by God when he was about to erect the tabernacle; for, “See,” He says, “that you make all things according to the pattern which was shown you on the mountain.” But now He has obtained a more excellent ministry, by as much as He is also the mediator of a better covenant, which has been enacted on better promises.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭8‬:‭3‬-‭6‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

SabbathBlessings · Jul 24, 2023

BNR32FAN said:
How can you quote Hebrews 8:5 and claim that it’s somehow saying that the 10 commandments are unchangeable?

Deut 4:2 says we cannot add or subtract to the commandments.

Deut 4:2 You shall not add to the word which I command you, nor take from it, that you may keep the commandments of the Lord your God which I command you.

What would give one the impression that man is above God and could edit His divine works? Exodus 32:16

The earthy temple was a miniature of God's heavenly Temple Hebrews 8:5 and the Ten Commandments was in the earthy temple exactly how God and wrote and God spoke, so they are a replica of what is in heaven Rev 11:19

BNR32FAN said:
There’s nothing in this passage that mentions the 10 commandments being unchangeable however it does mention that the Jesus brought us a MORE EXCELLENT ministry than Moses and that He is the mediator of a BETTER covenant. That right there explicitly shows the change from Moses’ ministry to Jesus’ ministry.

BNR32FAN said:

“For every high priest is appointed to offer both gifts and sacrifices; so it is necessary that this high priest also have something to offer. Now if He were on earth, He would not be a priest at all, since there are those who offer the gifts according to the Law; who serve a copy and shadow of the heavenly things, just as Moses was warned by God when he was about to erect the tabernacle; for, “See,” He says, “that you make all things according to the pattern which was shown you on the mountain.” But now He has obtained a more excellent ministry, by as much as He is also the mediator of a better covenant, which has been enacted on better promises.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭8‬:‭3‬-‭6‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

Click to expand...

It is a better covenant because of Jesus.

Jesus is our High Priest Hebrews 4:14-16 is that not better than going to an earthy priest? It is a better covenant because Jesus is our Mediator Hebrews 9:15 for us on behalf of the Father - we have an Advocate in Jesus- isn't that not better?

What is better is that we no longer have to sacrifice animals because Jesus became our Sacrificial Lamb for the forgiveness of sin when we repent and have a change of heart we can go directly to Jesus- is that not better? Hebrews 10:1-22

What did not change is sin, which Jesus came to save us from not in. Matthew 1:21 Sin is still breaking God's law even in the New Covenant 1 John 3:4 and Paul quotes from the unit of Ten to define sin Romans 7:7 which is why the Ten Commandments are under the Mercy Seat of Christ in the Most Holy of His Temple in heaven Rev 11:19 and God writes His laws in our hearts and minds in the New Covenant instead of deleting them Hebrews 8:10 which are kept by His people through faith and love. Romans 3:31 1 John 5:3, Rev 14:12 Rev 22:14

BNR32FAN · Jul 24, 2023

SabbathBlessings said:
Deut 4:2 says we cannot add or subtract to the commandments.

Deut 4:2 You shall not add to the word which I command you, nor take from it, that you may keep the commandments of the Lord your God which I command you.

What would give one the impression that man is above God and could edit His divine works? Exodus 32:16

Again we’ve been over this numerous times. I’m not talking about me or anyone else other than God editing His divine works. Were God’s works any less divine when He commanded the requirements for sin offerings and circumcision? The way you worded this seems to imply that God’s divine works cannot be changed.

BNR32FAN · Jul 24, 2023

SabbathBlessings said:
The earthy temple was a miniature of God's heavenly Temple Hebrews 8:5 and the Ten Commandments was in the earthy temple exactly how God and wrote and God spoke, so they are a replica of what is in heaven Rev 11:19

So what? None of this is evidence of anything. You’re conjuring your whole argument out of thin air. It says the Ark is in the temple in heaven, doesn’t say a single word about not being changed.

SabbathBlessings · Jul 24, 2023

BNR32FAN said:
Again we’ve been over this numerous times. I’m not talking about me or anyone else other than God editing His divine works. Were God’s works any less divine when He commanded the requirements for sin offerings and circumcision? The way you worded this seems to imply that God’s divine works cannot be changed.

The divine works God's referring is the Ten Commandment Exodus 32:16 and yes they cannot be edited. This law sets on an entirely different platform and Paul makes the case by contrasting circumcision with the commandments of God and said what matters is keeping the commandments of God 1 Cor 7:19

SabbathBlessings · Jul 24, 2023

BNR32FAN said:
So what? None of this is evidence of anything. You’re conjuring your whole argument out of thin air.

Only if we disregard all the scripture telling us the earthy temple was a copy of the heavenly Temple where lies the Ten Commandments inside the ark of the Covenant in the Most Holy of God's Temple. I choose to believe the scripture.

BNR32FAN · Jul 24, 2023

SabbathBlessings said:
What did not change is sin, which Jesus came to save us from not in. Matthew 1:21 Sin is still breaking God's law even in the New Covenant 1 John 3:4 and Paul quotes from the unit of Ten to define sin Romans 7:7 which is why the Ten Commandments are under the Mercy Seat of Christ in the Most Holy of His Temple in heaven Rev 11:19 and God writes His laws in our hearts and minds in the New Covenant instead of deleting them Hebrews 8:10 which are kept by His people through faith and love. Romans 3:31 1 John 5:3, Rev 14:12 Rev 22:14

It’s not a sin if the law has been changed. If Paul said we are not to be judged for not observing the sabbath days then it’s no longer a law for us to observe them. You seem to keep forgetting that my argument is based on Paul’s word’s specifically about the sabbath days.

BNR32FAN · Jul 24, 2023

SabbathBlessings said:
The divine works God's referring is the Ten Commandment Exodus 32:16 and yes they cannot be edited. This law sets on an entirely different platform and Paul makes the case by contrasting circumcision with the commandments of God and said what matters is keeping the commandments of God 1 Cor 7:19

You claim they can’t be edited but Paul obviously taught otherwise. And please let’s not pretend that the 10 commandments were the only works of God. You’re trying so hard to make the scriptures say things that are not written on them.

SabbathBlessings · Jul 24, 2023

BNR32FAN said:
You claim they can’t be edited but Paul obviously taught otherwise. And please let’s not pretend that the 10 commandments were the only works of God.

Can you point out what other works of God that God both personally wrote and personally spoke, that is in the Most Holy of His Temple where He dwells.?

BNR32FAN said:
You’re trying so hard to make the scriptures say things that are not written on them.

I don't think I am the one doing this.

SabbathBlessings · Jul 24, 2023

BNR32FAN said:
It’s not a sin if the law has been changed. If Paul said we are not to be judged for not observing the sabbath days then it’s no longer a law for us to observe them. You seem to keep forgetting that my argument is based on Paul’s word’s specifically about the sabbath days.

Paul is not referring to the commandments and there is more than one Sabbath in scripture. There is the weekly seventh day Sabbath commandment and the annual sabbath(s) ordinances that have to do with offerings and sacrifices it is abundantly clear by the context which sabbath(s) are being referred to in Col 2:13-17 KJV if one is honest about these verses. Sin did not end at the cross and the Ten Commandments is what points out what sin is when broken Romans 7:7 and what Jesus came to save us form, not in Matthew 1:21 and tells us not to break the least of the commandments quoting from the Ten Matthew 5:19-30 James says we break one of these commandments contrasting commandments from the Ten we break them all James 2:10-12. The weekly Sabbath was kept for gospel preaching to Jews and Gentiles every Sabbath long after the cross Acts 18:4, Acts 13:44, Acts 13:42 just as Jesus noted His followers would keeping Matthew 24:20 and Sabbath worship continues for eternity instead of ending at the cross. Isaiah 66:22-23

Looks like we will have to agree to disagree, and it will get sorted out soon enough.

BNR32FAN · Jul 24, 2023

SabbathBlessings said:
Only if we disregard all the scripture telling us the earthy temple was a copy of the heavenly Temple where lies the Ten Commandments inside the ark of the Covenant in the Most Holy of God's Temple. I choose to believe the scripture.

Ok so your position is that the scripture saying that there’s a copy of the temple in heaven so your thoughts are that this copy contains the same list of commandments that the original temple did and this notion, even tho it’s not specifically stated in the scriptures, this is only your approximation, but this is more compelling evidence than Paul specifically stating that we’re not to be judged for not observing the sabbath days?

See I have Paul SPECIFICALLY STATING something and you have your own inference that is contradictory to what Paul specifically stated which is NOWHERE SPECIFICALLY STATED in the scriptures. You’re going off of your own estimation instead of what Paul specifically stated.

SabbathBlessings · Jul 24, 2023

BNR32FAN said:
Ok so your position is that the scripture saying that there’s a copy of the temple in heaven so your thoughts are that this copy contains the same list of commandments that the original temple did and this notion, even tho it’s not specifically stated in the scriptures, this is only your approximation,

It's not my position, it is what the scripture says.

Hebrews 8:1 Now this is the main point of the things we are saying: We have such a High Priest, who is seated at the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens, 2 a Minister of the sanctuary and of the true tabernacle which the Lord erected, and not man. 3 For every high priest is appointed to offer both gifts and sacrifices. Therefore it is necessary that this One also have something to offer. 4 For if He were on earth, He would not be a priest, since there are priests who offer the gifts according to the law; 5 who serve the copy and shadow of the heavenly things, as Moses was divinely instructed when he was about to make the tabernacle. For He said, “See that you make all things according to the pattern shown you on the mountain.”

BNR32FAN said:
but this is more compelling evidence than Paul specifically stating that we’re not to be judged for not observing the sabbath days?

It said that about the annual sabbath(s) ordinances as shown through the context.

Col 2:14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;

The Sabbath commandment is holy and blessed and is a commandment of God. Plus we see every week being kept after the Cross and in heaven, so obviously there is context being missed. Man cannot reverse something God blessed so you would need a thus saith the Lord to reverse His blessing which He did not on the Sabbath, it continues to be for worship for eternity for God's people Isaiah 66:23 Rev 14:12

BNR32FAN said:
See I have Paul SPECIFICALLY STATING something and you have your own inference that is contradictory to what Paul specifically stated which is NOWHERE SPECIFICALLY STATED in the scriptures. You’re going off of your own estimation instead of what Paul specifically stated.

Your version has Paul contradicting himself and Jesus and God, which is not the case, just a misunderstanding of his teachings, which many did in his day as well we are warned about. 2 Peter 3:16 Paul said what matters is keeping the commandments of God 1 Cor 7:19 and it is what we will be judged by James 2:10-12 not keeping feast day ordinances.

Jesus said was made for mankind Mark 2:27 to bless and sanctify us because we cannot sanctify ourselves.

BNR32FAN · Jul 24, 2023

SabbathBlessings said:
Paul is not referring to the commandments and there is more than one Sabbath in scripture. There is the weekly seventh day Sabbath commandment and the annual sabbath(s) ordinances that have to do with offerings and sacrifices it is abundantly clear by the context which sabbath(s) are being referred to in Col 2:13-17 KJV if one is honest about these verses. Sin did not end at the cross and the Ten Commandments is what points out what sin is when broken Romans 7:7 and what Jesus came to save us form, not in Matthew 1:21 and tells us not to break the least of the commandments quoting from the Ten Matthew 5:19-30 James says we break one of these commandments contrasting commandments from the Ten we break them all James 2:10-12. The weekly Sabbath was kept for gospel preaching to Jews and Gentiles every Sabbath long after the cross Acts 18:4, Acts 13:44, Acts 13:42 just as Jesus noted His followers would keeping Matthew 24:20 and Sabbath worship continues for eternity instead of ending at the cross. Isaiah 66:22-23

Looks like we will have to agree to disagree, and it will get sorted out soon enough.

So he didn’t mean what he wrote. What he meant to write was that we are not to be judged for not observing a Sabbath day except for the Saturday Sabbath? He accidentally left that last part out? And honesty has nothing to do with it. The 10 commandments are ordinances, every commandment of God is by the very definition of the word, an ordinance. Again this is just playing word games.

SabbathBlessings · Jul 24, 2023

BNR32FAN said:
So he didn’t mean what he wrote. What he meant to write was that we are not to be judged for not observing a Sabbath day except for the Saturday Sabbath? He accidentally left that last part out? And honesty has nothing to do with it. The 10 commandments are ordinances, every commandment of God is by the very definition of the word, an ordinance. Again this is just playing word games.

He means what he wrote, he said they were ordinances Col 2:14 KJV not commandments we just have to believe him, which is why weekly gospel preaching on the Sabbath day was kept decades after the cross by the apostles instead of the Sabbath commandment being deleted. There is the weekly Sabbath that is a commandment part of a unit of Ten separated by God from all other statues, ordinances and other laws and we have sabbath(s) ordinances which is what’s being referred here. The weekly Sabbath continues after the cross and for eternity so it doesn’t fit the context being interpreted here as being one of God’s holy commandments Col 2:13-17 KJV that came in a unit of Ten and He added no more, plus Paul does not have authority to delete one of the commandments that was personally written and blessed by God, nor would he want to cause he also taught what matters is keeping the commandments of God 1 Cor 7:19 and he is not contradicting himself or the teachings of Jesus.

The Ten Commandments are not ordinances according to scripture…I do not consider scripture to be playing word games.

Neh 9:13 “You came down also on Mount Sinai,
And spoke with them from heaven,
And gave them just ordinances and true laws,
Good statutes and commandments.

God identifies the Ten Commandments as “My commandments” right in the unit of Ten

Exodus 20:6 but showing mercy to thousands, to those who love Me and keep My commandments.

Jesus repeats this almost verbatim

John 14:15
15 “If you love Me, keep My commandments.

It is how we love God.

1 John 5:3 3 For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments. And His commandments are not burdensome.

Did Abraham observe the Sabbath day?

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