There are so many different groups/churches/denominations etc. Alot of them claim to be the only way to God. I am looking, I'm looking hard. But its so confusing. I end up thinking 'Oh to hell with it all. I'll just stumble through life my own way". So how can I be saved? How can I make the right choice? So many websites and TV channels come across as being ever so slickly designed and marketed. I'm sure alot of these televangelists are millionaires. Was Jesus mega-rich? I see people with their eyes closed, waving their hands in the air and I ask myself "Is this really what being a Christian is all about?" Where is the fearing of God. Where is the recognition of Jesus' suffering? Everything I see on TV is just so 'clean'. Where are the Christians with mental-health problems? The self-harmers? I never see them. All I see are clean-cut types with mirror-practiced smiles. I wouldn't buy a second-hand car of most of them. Where are the modern day Wesleys, Spurgeons, etc? Are we to beleive that Rick Warren, Rory and Wendy Alec, Benny Hinn and Nicky Gumble are the new breed? OK, so I'm sounding ultra-cynical. But that's part of my nature. I am *very* confused by all of what I see. And everyone seems to be trying to sell a book, or get a monthly donation for their channel. 'Just £20 a month and you can be an angel of our channel'. No, I don't like stuff like that at all. And what happens after I 'beleive'? Are all my ills supposed to vanish? I have heard people claim that they have been healed just by watching some charismatic preacher on TV. I cannot beleive a word of this. There is also confusion as to what Christians are allowed to do. Some say music (or at least everything invloving electric guitars, sysnthesizers etc) is evil. This is something else I cannot understand or accept. And then there is the thorny issue of Bible translations. 'KJV only - the rest are corrupt'. Or 'People only make new translations so they can make money'. And 'We have to re-evaluate translations in light of modern advances in the study of ancient languages' Yet more confusion. More contradiction. Then there is theology. 'Rome is right', 'Rome is wrong'. Transubstatiation, Immaculate Conception, Trinity and on and on... Find one position and within minutes you can find an opposite one. Where is truth? Did it ever exist? I think I am running out of energy in my efforts to find God. I just don't think I will ever feel comfortable that whatever Church I go to, or whatever Bible I read is acceptable to God. How can one message be interpreted in so many ways? How can one God cause (unintentionally) so much confusion? Where does one turn? Now I'm sure that some of you may be thinking "I'll tell him that you should just pray about this". Well the problem is that my head is spinning so much that even if I could ask Him for help, I doubt I would hear a reply if there was one. I don't know. I really don't know. It's depressing. And it's making me very unhappy. Sorry - this seems like more of a rant than a question. Perhaps the more patient among you will see something of a genuine and heartfelt plea for Gods love in my words somewhere. I am not perfect. I do have 'problems'. I want to know God. I want to please Him. Is that too much to ask? Is it too selfish? Is it impossible? Any comments you have will be much apprecriated. Matt P.S. After re-reading this I realise just how disjointed it all is. I thought about rewriting it, but as it stands it is a good representation of just how 'damaged' I feel. So I leave it as it is.
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Desperate
- Thread starter remotecontrol
- Start date
The formatting on my post is non-existent. It should come out better. The graphics are all over the place 
Matt
Matt
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seajoy
Senior Veteran
Hi Remote, and welcome to CF. Sorry about the site, it's a little messed up today, but normally it's not. I'm sure they will fix it soon.Sorry you have come across so much "show" when it comes to what others think is finding God.The first thing I would tell you to do, is stop watching TV evangelists, since you can't sit down and talk to them about their beliefs, and they do put on quite a show. God tells us to look to His Word. He says "Come unto Me all ye that labor, and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest." You don't find Jesus...He already found you. He died and rose that you would live. Children don't have a big understanding of God, but boy, do they have faith! ("of such is the Kingdom of God" Your faith is not created from you, nor some fancy preacher on TV. All that is required is that you believe in Jesus as your only way to salvation. That belief is a gift from God, you don't make it happen.I would suggest you go a visit a pastor, in person, or call one. If this is what the pastor tells you, you've hit the right place. You might be saying "that may take awhile." Well, you've watched a lot of TV, and that took awhile too :o).I'm one of those people you are talking about that has gone through severe mental problems (I have been in the hospital 6 times for depression/OCD). I'm sure not a fancy christian...I don't know the bible like the back of my hand (although I read it!)...etc... But, "I know that my Redeemer Lives!" That's all you need to know too!God's blessings as you begin your walk with Him.seajoy
Your faith is not created from you, nor some fancy preacher on TV. All that is required is that you believe in Jesus as your only way to salvation. That belief is a gift from God, you don't make it happen.I would suggest you go a visit a pastor, in person, or call one. If this is what the pastor tells you, you've hit the right place. You might be saying "that may take awhile." Well, you've watched a lot of TV, and that took awhile too :o).I'm one of those people you are talking about that has gone through severe mental problems (I have been in the hospital 6 times for depression/OCD). I'm sure not a fancy christian...I don't know the bible like the back of my hand (although I read it!)...etc... But, "I know that my Redeemer Lives!" That's all you need to know too!God's blessings as you begin your walk with Him.seajoy
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Adammi
A Nicene Christian not in CF's Xians Only Club
Hey Remote!You sound just like me. I'm a Christian and totally dependant on Christ, but I too am very cynical of the state of modern christendom, and often very cynical of older christendom. I think that the modern church is in desparate need of some healthy cynicism.I'd love to talk to you more if you want to PM me sometime, but for right now I'd reccommend that you do 3 things (not that there's anything super-spirtual or dogmatic about these 3 things just three things that I think would be good things for you to do if you want to)1) Get your feelings out. Write, sing, scream, break things, or whatever you want to do to get some of your feelings expressed.2) Tell God all about it. Don't feel like you have to talk to him spiritually or use religious jargon. Just tell him about things, he's listening.3) Read the Bible some. You can read whatever parts you want to, but I would reccommend the book of John and the book of Psalms (which was written as a songbook by a guy who wrote songs to express his often-times painful feelings)."Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness, for they shall be satisfied."Desparation is a good thing. I hope that you never stop being desparate.
Oh, and BTW, I thought I would tell you that I think that God is already very pleased with you.
Oh, and BTW, I thought I would tell you that I think that God is already very pleased with you.
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The Midge
Towel Bearer
What you need is a does of real life at a bricks and mortar church (or school hall) near you. Like ours. But we are not on TV with all the makeup, lighting, editing and select camera angles and all the rest. It is full of real people with real issues (rather than finer points of doctrine)-that is single parents, drink problems, debt, depression, stess, job insecurity, bereavement, sickness, children with ADHD and all the rest. And we are only a 200 souls in a well to do town in middle England. What we have in common is our saviour Jesus. He is the only person who is important. The remarkable thing about him is that he is God incarnate and he has been through everyting we have, and worse. Find out about Jesus and what he taught and you find out about life lived to the full. Forever.
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DonVA
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I went through the same confusion at one point during this journey, where I had come to believe that religions were simply out to make money off of hope. What I wound up doing was heading back to my roots. I was baptized in an Orthodox Church as an infant, had participated in church as a child (but only as much as a child would participate... as an altar boy), and by age 12, had begun my 30 year departure from religion. I had puttered around with other religions along the way, and had begun to think I might be agnostic (there's something bigger than all of us, but what is it?).When I did decide that there WAS something more, and I knew in my heart that it was God, I chose to go back to the Orthodox Church to begin my quest. Where better to start than where Christianity began? The church has maintained the same traditions and beliefs for nearly 2000 years, so for me it was like going to the source--before televangelists (who annoy me as well), before stomping and clapping were added to worship, before rolling around on the floor became a part of a service... just pure Christian worship, where Psalms are sung, and chants and prayer continue through the entire service. It truly is a beautiful experience. For me, this was home. This is where I found Christ. It's easy now for me to close my eyes to all the confusion swirling around religions. Each of them spun off some other spin-off of some other denomination, changing as they go to adapt to the times, or to their own personal beliefs. And so there's no confusion, I'm not trying to bait anyone. This is just my experience, which began with dealing with the very things mentioned in the OP. And I'm no longer cynical or confused.
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First you need to calm down. Second forget all the theological issues, forget about praying to the saints, hypocrites in the church, televangelists, christian rock music etc etc. I'll lay it out for you.Are you saved? Simple. Are you saved? If you die tonight, will you go to heaven? I'm not talking about your brother, that hypocrite in church, that greedy televagelist etc. Just you.1. I've sinned. You've sinned, we all have. We've lied, stolen things, hated God, blasphemed, lusted after someone else. We've broken His 10 commandments.2. God is just and must punish sin whereever it's found. That punishment is in hell. Like a criminal brought to justice, we as criminals against God will be brought to justice. I won't get away with my sin and neither will you or that hypocrite in church, or that slanderer, that murderer etc. 3. God doesn't want to do that because He loves you and me and everyone so much. Just like a father who loves his child even if his child has commited crimes in the world. The father doesn't want to punish him.4. He made a way for you to be forgiven so that you can go to heaven. That's God's love for you and me. By punishing His own Son instead.5. All you have to do is get down before God, humble yourself and repent and trust in the Savior. Repent means to turn from sin. So if you're lying, stealing, lusting, hating, blaspheming, you need to stop and ammend your ways (as best as you can at least). Trusting the Savior means you look only to Him for salvation. There is no other Name under heaven which where we may be saved.He offers you everlasting life in Heaven where there is no sin, no sorrow, everyone is happy, families reunited, your desires are satisfied eternally. This begs the question for some of us, why do we keep rejecting that?
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Merlin
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The Bible is the best answer.
Ultimately, it is our source for direction.
Romans 10: simplifies things
9 That if you confess with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.
10 For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you confess and are saved.
11 As the Scripture says, "Anyone who trusts in him will never be put to shame."
12 For there is no difference between Jew and Gentilethe same Lord is Lord of all and richly blesses all who call on him,
13 for, "Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved."
Anything beyond what the Bible says is baggage the church is adding.
There is more to the Christian life, but the starting point is salvation as described above.
Yes. Is 'slick' wrong?
Isn't it best for them to attempt to put their best forward?
Actually, yes He was. Or at least His family was.
That's not a problem is it?
We are encouraged to *Rejoice* in the Lord.
The word 'rejoice' appears hundreds of times in the Bible.
Fear of God does not mean to be afraid of God,
rather we should hate evil and respect God.
Jesus suffered so that we might experience joy. Wouldn't it be more of a slap in His face not to enjoy the gift He paid so dearly for?
To show suffering distracts from their message.
Yup.
Have you considered how much money it costs to put on a weekly show?
Each of us has different tastes.
That's up to you.
They can. But it's not a requirement.
You can keep them
You have that right.
Many Christians reject healing because it doesn't fit into their belief box.
God will honor your choices.
A Christian may do *anything*
But many things are destructive to us.
Many churches try to simplify things for new believers by making rules to follow.
They all say the same thing regarding the basics.
Romans 10 reads about the same in any translation.
But check it for yourself.
Compare them on-line.
http://www.biblegateway.com
None is required for salvation.
In the Bible.
Humans like to add baggage to God's message.
God's message is simple.
Mankind adds extra baggage.
A Bible.
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I agree with the person who said, just start with a Bible.
As far as denominations go, that's a tough one. I don't personally believe in denominations since I don't think Jesus or the apostles did, but I guess that's what we're stuck with, though there are some non-denominational churches.
The purpose of a church in a believers' life is a place to be "knit in" to the lives of other believers, a place to be trained in the use of and to exercise your spiritual gifts, a place to be edified and to edify, a place to grow and be discipled, to worship corporately. Those are the main things I can think of off the top of my head.
In my opinion, it is so difficult to find a place where a person can feel comfortable doing that, the denominational thing is almost of secondary importance- though obviously it should be a Christian church.
Pray and ask God to lead you to the church body He wants you to become a part of. I highly recommend a Baptist church because they tend to be strong in Bible teaching and study. You can get a sound and solid foundation there. However make sure it is a church where there is not legalism, but rather grace and love.
Each church is different based on the people the leader has attracted to himself- which is somewhat dependant upon how long he has been there. Find a pastor you can respect. There still are some.
As far as denominations go, that's a tough one. I don't personally believe in denominations since I don't think Jesus or the apostles did, but I guess that's what we're stuck with, though there are some non-denominational churches.
The purpose of a church in a believers' life is a place to be "knit in" to the lives of other believers, a place to be trained in the use of and to exercise your spiritual gifts, a place to be edified and to edify, a place to grow and be discipled, to worship corporately. Those are the main things I can think of off the top of my head.
In my opinion, it is so difficult to find a place where a person can feel comfortable doing that, the denominational thing is almost of secondary importance- though obviously it should be a Christian church.
Pray and ask God to lead you to the church body He wants you to become a part of. I highly recommend a Baptist church because they tend to be strong in Bible teaching and study. You can get a sound and solid foundation there. However make sure it is a church where there is not legalism, but rather grace and love.
Each church is different based on the people the leader has attracted to himself- which is somewhat dependant upon how long he has been there. Find a pastor you can respect. There still are some.
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Adstar
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remotecontrol said:
remotecontrol
The longer i read you post the more i shook my head and groaned inside, I see people with the same problems as you often and i just wish people would seek a direct relationship with God rather than seeking to establish their relationship with God through other people and organizations.
The Words of Jesus have been written down in the Bible. His message is there for you and anyone to go and read, today you don't even have to read, you can get an audio bible downloaded so you can sit back and listen to someone else reading it.
The message of Jesus is there for you to accept or reject. All the scriptures are there for you to grow in depth of knowledge after you have accepted Jesus as your Savoir.
my advice to you is to establish your relationship with God and stop being lead every which way by opinions of men.
Pray to God for understanding and then get into the Gospels, spend some time alone with God and then come out and seek fellowship with Christians. Don't rely on any Christian to lead you to the truth, rely on the Holy Spirit and seek His guidance.
I will pray for you
All Praise The Ancient Of Days
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I'm glad to see the site is fixed. It was very difficult reading your replies with text all over the place.
Anyway, I'd just like to say a big thankyou to all of you who responded. I won't reply to any specific points raised or this thread will go on forever.
The general consensus seems to be 'read the Bible and seek a relationship with God'. That sounds fine...in principle. There are a couple of 'technical' issues, eg baptism, that I need to investigate.
Overall though it seems that it wouldn't matter whether one becomes a Roman Catholic, Mormom, Jehovas Witness, or whatever. If it just 'me and Him' then it sounds 'easy', maybe a bit too easy.
I shall investigate more, and read around these forums.
Thankyou all once again.
Anyway, I'd just like to say a big thankyou to all of you who responded. I won't reply to any specific points raised or this thread will go on forever.
The general consensus seems to be 'read the Bible and seek a relationship with God'. That sounds fine...in principle. There are a couple of 'technical' issues, eg baptism, that I need to investigate.
Overall though it seems that it wouldn't matter whether one becomes a Roman Catholic, Mormom, Jehovas Witness, or whatever. If it just 'me and Him' then it sounds 'easy', maybe a bit too easy.
I shall investigate more, and read around these forums.
Thankyou all once again.
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From this point, I will tell you no one "church" has the turh, knowledge, and exact plan to heaven. No one church has it all right.That said, there is a very old saying, "The Jews have everything right except Jesus Christ, where as western Christianity is all worng save Jesus Christ."
So, where does that leave us. We cerrtainly can not become Messianic Jews. However, as far as religion goes, see if this helps.
Human side:
Depending on your background, there are two Sects. Catholic and Protestant.
Within Catholics, there are Roman, Orthodox...yada, yada, yada...
On the Protestant side there are Pentecostals, Baptists, 7th Day, yada, yada, and so on. (end human)
None of them are the way. Jesus is the Way, the Truth, and the Life. And none other, irregardless of their claims. So where to goto church?
I agree with several of the posters, be with those like minded, Bible teaching/preaching, and who esteem Christ above all others and teach the Bible. They promote the true apostolic way, as in Acts and the epistles, and majority of the NT.
I wish I could spit out the name and address of a church in your are, but I can not. Why? Lets say I was Pentecostal, just because my Pastor may teach biblically, does not mean another does/is. If I were Roman Catholic, does not mean the preist in your diocese is a man of God. And so on.
Salvation comes with a personnal relationship with Jesus. Can it be done without EVER stepping into a sanctuary? Yes. Should you go at this alone....depend largely on you. I do know:
However,
I do know the scripture that we should not forsake the assembling of believers, and so we should gather. It is kind of like here. We of the "Christian" faith can gather, tho we differ on some of our beliefs. Who is right, who is wrong? Let God so judge. I know I do not want to be in the lukewarm church and be spewed out of His mouth. Prayer, read, fast, and seek. Compare their doctrine to what was taught from Matthew to Revelation. Who do they pray to? Who do they lift high? What are their fruits? Do they serve the community? Many more need to be answered.
Hope this helps. May God light your path, and order your steps.
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