Design Change?

[TheBear]

For those who think that all animals were once vegetarians.....

Why do many animals have jaw and tooth structures that make for effecient predatory features? Was this same design created for eating vegetation only? Or, was there a design change?

 

[lucaspa]

For all who think that all animals were once vegetarians.....

Why do many animals have jaw and tooth structures that make for effecient predatory features? Was this same design created for eating vegetation only? Or, was there a design change?

Let me add another question to your list, if I may:

If there was a design change, why doesn't the Bible mention it?

(I have seen people post that evolution can't be true because it isn't mentioned specifically in the Bible. This logic says that anything not mentioned specifically can't be true. So it seems to me that, if the Bible doesn't mention a design change, the logic says there couldn't have been a design change.)

 

[TheBear]

Thanks, lucaspa.

 

[lucaspa]

Thanks, lucaspa.

Let's see what happens.

BTW, I like this from James: "do not boast and lie against the truth. This wisdom does not descend from above, but is earthly, sensual, demonic."

Why don't the creationists ever post this verse?

 

[TheBear]

Let's see what happens.

BTW, I like this from James: "do not boast and lie against the truth. This wisdom does not descend from above, but is earthly, sensual, demonic."

Why don't the creationists ever post this verse?

Actually, the 'Truth' refered to in that passage is of a spiritual nature.

But, I can understand where you are coming from.

 

[JohnR7]

For those who think that all animals were once vegetarians.....

Why do many animals have jaw and tooth structures that make for effecient predatory features? Was this same design created for eating vegetation only? Or, was there a design change?

Usually this has to do with something Paul said in his letter to the Romans:

Romans 5:12
Therefore, just as through one man sin entered the world, and death through sin, and thus death spread to all men, because all sinned--

Paul does not say there was no death in the world. He said there was no sin in the world, and no death that was a result of sin.

As far as we know, the only tree of life was in the Garden of Eden. When Adam and Eve sinned then they were thrown out of the Garden, least they should eat of the tree of life and live forever in the condition of sin that they were in.

Genesis 3:22-23
And the Lord God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever: [23] Therefore the Lord God sent him forth from the garden of Eden, to till the ground from whence he was taken.

 

[JohnR7]

Let's see what happens.

BTW, I like this from James: "do not boast and lie against the truth. This wisdom does not descend from above, but is earthly, sensual, demonic."

Why don't the creationists ever post this verse?

Why do you quote it out of it's context?

James 3:14
But if you have bitter envy and self-seeking in your hearts, do not boast and lie against the truth.

"Bitter envy and self-seeking" is "earthly, sensual, demonic"

 

[TheBear]

Double post.

 

[TheBear]

For those who think that all animals were once vegetarians.....

Why do many animals have jaw and tooth structures that make for effecient predatory features? Was this same design created for eating vegetation only? Or, was there a design change?

Anyone want to address this?

 

[Jet Black]

Genesis 3:22-23
And the Lord God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil.

us?

and does this mean God knows good and evil?

 

[TheBear]

WOW!!! 4 days and this is hardly touched.

 

[Pete Harcoff]

WOW!!! 4 days and this is hardly touched.

You're not surprised are you?

The arguments that I've heard regarding carnivorous animals from YECs are that they were 'created' with carnivorous features, because God knew that man was going to fall, death would enter the world, etc, and that the animals would later eat meat. But during their time in the Garden of Eden, they ate plants.

Of course, I don't think there's any Biblical scripture to support this view, but it's what I've seen some people claim.

 

[Orihalcon]

are all of us in this thread evolutionists? except for john?

 

[lucaspa]

Why do you quote it out of it's context?

James 3:14
But if you have bitter envy and self-seeking in your hearts, do not boast and lie against the truth.

"Bitter envy and self-seeking" is "earthly, sensual, demonic"

Because the context simply made it worse for creationists. Doesn't creationism have bitter envy and self-seeking for its own aggrandizement?

 

[lucaspa]

WOW!!! 4 days and this is hardly touched.

Yeah. Apparently the Biblical literalists are having trouble.

While we are waiting for them, let me run an idea past you.

My logic goes like this:

1. If we take the text as literal and all animals were herbivores before the Fall and
2. if the design change was left out of the Bible, but
3. we insert that in to introduce the theology, then

4. sola scriptura goes out the window.

[Note for those who may not know (which is not Bear): sola scriptura is a major doctrine of Protestantism that says that we only need the Bible for instruction in theological matters.]

If major theological points -- such as design changes -- aren't in the Bible, then we have to have people to intercede and tell us what the Bible means by filling in the gaps. Wouldn't the result be a new priesthood of creationists claiming they have theological authority over the rest of us?

 

[lucaspa]

Usually this has to do with something Paul said in his letter to the Romans:

Romans 5:12
Therefore, just as through one man sin entered the world, and death through sin, and thus death spread to all men, because all sinned--

Paul does not say there was no death in the world. He said there was no sin in the world, and no death that was a result of sin.

As far as we know, the only tree of life was in the Garden of Eden. When Adam and Eve sinned then they were thrown out of the Garden, least they should eat of the tree of life and live forever in the condition of sin that they were in.

Genesis 3:22-23
And the Lord God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever: [23] Therefore the Lord God sent him forth from the garden of Eden, to till the ground from whence he was taken.

John, where in that did you address The Bear's point? Where did you address that all animals were herbivores before the Fall? Genesis 9:3 is sometimes used.

Genesis 2:22-23 shows Adam and Eve were going to die BEFORE the Fall. That is why they would have had to eat of the Tree of Life in order to avoid death. BTW, who is the "us" in the passage, John?

 

[TheBear]

Bumping this in hopes of getting a reasonable reply from a YEC.

 

[Cantuar]

John, where in that did you address The Bear's point? Where did you address that all animals were herbivores before the Fall?

You don't suppose that was an attempt to push the thread in a new direction, do you? I mean, it must be pretty embarrassing when a question like the one in the original post is asked by a fellow Christian. Much easier to try and change the subject.

 

[JohnR7]

You don't suppose that was an attempt to push the thread in a new direction, do you?

It was as attempt to try and push it in the direction of truth. But truth does not seem to be the objective. The objective seems to be to try and discredit something. So I was only trying to figure out who or what it was we were trying to discredit.

I assume that you asked a question and so you wanted an answer. You did want me to answer that question didn't you?

 

[Jet Black]

truth seems to be that lions chew the cud.