Descrating the flag?

[freespiritchurch]

Is anyone else bothered by the push to prohibit the "desecration" of the flag? According to the Oxford English Dictionary, descrate means:

"To take away its consecrated or sacred character from (anything); to treat as not sacred or hallowed; to profane."

It seems to me that Christians aren't allowed to treat any one of the kingdoms of the world (even the ones that aren't really kingdoms) as sacred. As far as I can tell, this proposed amendment is idolatrous. Does this bother anyone else?

 

[Diane_Windsor]

I didn't know that there was a propsed amendment on this? Can you provide us with a link? I do know that there is a proposed amendment to repeal the 22nd (if memory serves) amendment, but I doubt that will pass.

Diane

 

[billwald]

I may have to burn me a flag. Dummies won't know it is the prescribed procedure for destruction of one.

 

[invisible trousers]

i'm not sure i would consider idolatrous, but i certainly consider it stupid.

here is the full text of the amendment:

The Congress shall have power to prohibit the physical desecration of the flag of the United States.

 

[bliz]

With everything going on in our nation at this time, THIS is what congress wants to act on??? Not improvements to the health care crisis? Not real improvements to social security? Not the serious questions on how badly our military in combat is being under supplied? Not unemployment? Yeah, those massive flag desecration gatherings are really getting out of hand!

And why now? More people are proudly (if sometimes in ignorance of flag ettiqute) displaying the US flag than in a very, very long time. If some people wish to express their views on an issue by destroying a symbol, I think we can tolerate that. Is our patriotism so fragile that it is so easily threatened by such displays?

 

[mysteryman]

i think most Americans that grew up putting their hand across their heart saying some words of allegiance would probably be pretty ticked off to burn a flag in their yard. i believe many, would almost consider it sacrilegious. That's kinda how it feels when you burn something like that in you heart, day in and day out, kinda of how the cults do it.

 

[billwald]

I personally think the Bush administration is trying to foment a civil war for the purpose of a military and/or UN takeover. An amendment like this would give them the excuse to arrest many people.

 

[horuhe00]

With everything going on in our nation at this time, THIS is what congress wants to act on??? Not improvements to the health care crisis? Not real improvements to social security? Not the serious questions on how badly our military in combat is being under supplied? Not unemployment? Yeah, those massive flag desecration gatherings are really getting out of hand!

And why now? More people are proudly (if sometimes in ignorance of flag ettiqute) displaying the US flag than in a very, very long time. If some people wish to express their views on an issue by destroying a symbol, I think we can tolerate that. Is our patriotism so fragile that it is so easily threatened by such displays?

Don't blame me. I didn't vote for those senators, representatives and president

 

[The Lady Kate]

With everything going on in our nation at this time, THIS is what congress wants to act on??? Not improvements to the health care crisis? Not real improvements to social security? Not the serious questions on how badly our military in combat is being under supplied? Not unemployment? Yeah, those massive flag desecration gatherings are really getting out of hand!

And why now? More people are proudly (if sometimes in ignorance of flag ettiqute) displaying the US flag than in a very, very long time. If some people wish to express their views on an issue by destroying a symbol, I think we can tolerate that. Is our patriotism so fragile that it is so easily threatened by such displays?

Given this administration's saggin popularity and rapidly declining public support, it would be a big PR boost for them to actually solve a problem for a change....so they manufacture one.

 

[Ellethidhren]

Instead of burning the flag as a sign of hatred of the USA, I suggest they put their time to better use and find a country to move to that fits their belief system. May I suggest Cuba, Communist China? See ya!

 

[The Lady Kate]

Instead of burning the flag as a sign of hatred of the USA, I suggest they put their time to better use and find a country to move to that fits their belief system. May I suggest Cuba, Communist China? See ya!

The country that best fits their belief system is the USA. Freedom to say anything, even if it's against us!

 

[marianservant]

Flag burning is free speech and it should always be allowed, to raise the flag to such a height so that it is "untouchable" and for some Christians to say burning it is a sacriliege does not make them patriots, it makes them idolaters.

 

[Covenant Heart]

...Christians aren't allowed to treat any one of the kingdoms of the world (even the ones that aren't really kingdoms) as sacred.

What you are saying is profoundly Biblical. If we took this word to heart, it would restore ecclesiastical discipline which in turn would reaffirm the identity of the Church. It will break the hold of heretical ideologies (left and right) in the church, heal schism in Christ's body, and allow the church to be the church.

This whole "Church and State" question is a moot point. Jesus Christ bows down to no candidate or political platform. Those who would join partizan ideology to Christian theology, or promote this syncretistic doctrine in the Church are guilty of prostituting Christ. He will be the harlot of no party.

Syncretism is heretical. And church members that promote it are to be disciplined by the local church council. If they presist in their disobedience, they are to be excommunicated from the membership of the church. It is for the church to effect "Church and State" separation by retaining the control and discipline of her membership. Churches refusing to apply ecclesiastical discipline no longer uphold the rule of Christ in the church and so are no true churches of Christ.

Mr. Constance, we can't imagine a better way to mark Covenant Heart's 500th post. Thank-you.

Blessings!
Covenant Heart

 

[artybloke]

A flag is a piece of cloth. Patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel (and considering the scoundrels running your country these days, I'm not surprised they've come up with this nonsense.)

Pass me the matches, bub.

 

[Covenant Heart]

A flag is a piece of cloth. Patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel (and considering the scoundrels running your country these days, I'm not surprised they've come up with this nonsense.)

Pass me the matches, bub.

Did you know that your celebrated lexicographer, essayist and poet has a counterpart in the United States?

" 'patriotism,' said the late Dr. Johnson, glowering at Boswell, 'is the last refuge of scoundrels.' But there is something worse: it is the first, last and middle refuge of fools." -- Henry Louis Mencken, United States editor, critic and lexicographer

Also relevant are the words of your mathematician and philosopher, Lord Russell who said that:

"Partiotism is the willingness to kill and be killed for trivial reasons."

If we can forgive an Irishman for straying into thought:

"Patriotism is a pernicious, psychopathic form of idiocy." --George Bernard Shaw

Lest we be cited for quoting a bunch of dead white guys, here are the comments of Russian boarn, United States feminist, writer, anarchist and revolutionary, Emma Goldman:

conceit, arrogance and egoism are the essentials of patriotism."

While not addressing directly the matter of patriotism, the reference to those who run the country today invites recollection of the words of eh United States foreign correspondent, Richard Mowrer who said that:

the greatest worry of all our dictators is to be found out by their own people.

"My country right or wrong is my country" has no place in the Christian mind. This member advocates conditional support for the state, a support predicated upon a prior commitment to justice (the Biblical idea of misphat) and peace (the Biblical idea of shalom).

Blessings!
Covenant Heart

 

[Singing Bush]

I, personally, do not see why everyone is getting up in arms about the flag burning amendment. It has been in existence, in its various forms, for years now, before the Bush administration even came to being. In fact, it received a heck of a lot more attention in years past and surely isn't going to get anywhere now.

As far as patriotism in general, since the topic seems to have shifted some; it is not patriotism which is bad, but patriotism perverted. America, as most countries, has many things that are worth championing and celebrating and feeling a sense of pride and warmth from those things is no more wrong or foolish, in my opinion, than supporting your family or your church or any other arbitrary organization we set up. Supporting them in error, on the other hand, is always wrong and is instead where the defining line should be drawn. So says me.

 

[Harlan Norris]

It bothers me. In the last 10 years there has been a parity between patriotism and Christianity. It has now become one and the same in certain circles. It's definatly idolitry.

 

[Critias]

Let them burn the flag if they want. From a personal stand point, if someone hates the country they live in so much, why don't they find somewhere else to live? Either help make it better, move out, or keep it to yourself.

You know the saying, if you aren't part of the solution you are part of the problem.

I think people just like to complain about a place that will protect them and their hate speech.

 

[The Lady Kate]

I think people just like to complain about a place that will protect them and their hate speech.

Ironic, isn't it?