Depraved flesh

[Unreformedbythetruth]

Jesus has condemned our sinful nature within the flesh

Romans 8:3
For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:

Nothing good lives in our flesh now, not in our whole being. We are not totally depraved. Jesus knocks on the door of our hearts to reach the inner most being to give it Jesus words that is Spirit and life.

Saying to it if you believe in me you shall live, and if you do not you will be condemned

God does not give us the power to believe, but to make a choice to continue following the flesh and perish with the flesh, or follow the Spirit, which is in Christ words and live.
http://bible.gospelcom.net/passage/?book_id=50&chapter=6&verse=63&version=9&context=verse
John 6:63
It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

In my inner most being I delight in God's law, but the flesh is right there with me wages war with the inner most being.

Who can save me from this body of death, praise be to Jesus.

The only hope we have is Jesus.

 

[akolouthein]

Jesus has condemned our sinful nature within the flesh

Romans 8:3
For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:

Nothing good lives in our flesh now, not in our whole being. We are not totally depraved. Jesus knocks on the door of our hearts to reach the inner most being to give it Jesus words that is Spirit and life.

Saying to it if you believe in me you shall live, and if you do not you will be condemned

God does not give us the power to believe, but to make a choice to continue following the flesh and perish with the flesh, or follow the Spirit, which is in Christ words and live.

John 6:63
It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

In my inner most being I delight in God's law, but the flesh is right there with me wages war with the inner most being.

Who can save me from this body of death, praise be to Jesus.

The only hope we have is Jesus.

Are you saying that because we are depraved in the flesh we are not totally depraved? If so, I sense a "burning straw dummies" argument in the works.

 

[Unreformedbythetruth]

There is a difference in the inner man and the flesh. There is no hope for the flesh, but there is a hope for the inner man. Only the words of Jesus can reach, and God made His elect the messengers of the words of Christ.

Don't you see all those who want to do good like given to charity, but still struggle with the flesh and the desires of it. We have a hope for them which is Jesus Christ.

Do you want to know what the hope we have for them.

Hebrews 7

18The former regulation is set aside because it was weak and useless 19(for the law made nothing perfect), and a better hope is introduced, by which we draw near to God.

God did not send His Son to condemn the world, but to save it. We have an awesome hope for the world.

 

[frumanchu]

I'm confused. Are you saying that the innermost part of man is actually good from birth, but that his flesh is corrupt and entices him to sin?

 

[akolouthein]

I'm still trying to figure out what your point is. It seems to me that somewhere in your posts you are speaking against total depravity. Is this this subliminal message method of debate?

"Yesterday I was heading to the store, I got in my car, started the ignition, total depravity is wrong, and then drove off to get a gallon of milk."

 

[Unreformedbythetruth]

No

Jesus undid what Adam did. He condemned the sin into the flesh.

We do have a choice that God gives us at the cross.

To believe in Jesus and live and not to believe be condemned.

The flesh is the one that is depraved, but the inner man has a choice. God has given them at the cross, unless the cross be empted of it's power.

God loved the world, and if He loved the world then He would give them an oppurtunity for it to be saved, unless we make God into a liar.

That would be very deceiving and something that woud come from satan.
To say you loved the world, and not provide a way for it to be saved.

God did not send His Son to condemn the world, but to save it, and made Hs elect the messengers.

We are given good news for the world, not Bad news.

 

[Imblessed]

God did not give man any opportunity at the cross. God accomplished what He planned at the cross! The cross is NOT AN OPPORTUNITY!!! It's an ATONEMENT--Jesus said "It is finished" right before He died. He accomplished what he had set out to do, which was to atone for the sins of all those who will ever call on Him for saving.

You have a misunderstanding of exactly what the cross was for.

 

[akolouthein]

God did not give man any opportunity at the cross. God accomplished what He planned at the cross! The cross is NOT AN OPPORTUNITY!!! It's an ATONEMENT--Jesus said "It is finished" right before He died. He accomplished what he had set out to do, which was to atone for the sins of all those who will ever call on Him for saving.

You have a misunderstanding of exactly what the cross was for.

Amen sister! That's right on.

 

[akolouthein]

No

Jesus undid what Adam did. He condemned the sin into the flesh.

We do have a choice that God gives us at the cross.

To believe in Jesus and live and not to believe be condemned.

The flesh is the one that is depraved, but the inner man has a choice. God has given them at the cross, unless the cross be empted of it's power.

God loved the world, and if He loved the world then He would give them an oppurtunity for it to be saved, unless we make God into a liar.

That would be very deceiving and something that woud come from satan.
To say you loved the world, and not provide a way for it to be saved.

God did not send His Son to condemn the world, but to save it, and made Hs elect the messengers.

We are given good news for the world, not Bad news.

Ahem , check 1 , 2, is this thing on?

You have a very interesting way of speaking about your opinions. Lets just get to the heart of the matter shall we? We are all adults here and no one should go home all wounded at the end of this discussion.

Matter of buisness number one: No one in this forum is going to take you seriously unless you come in here with scripture to back up your opinions. Give us some scripture that states the spirit has a choice. Give us some scripture that states the elect are nothing more than messengers. Give us some scripture that states we had a choice at the cross.

Most people who follow Calvinistic doctrines are well prepared to defend those doctrines. The Calvinistic perspective is THE Biblical perspective and as such we rely strictly on scripture. We are sick and tired of straw man arguments from people who just enjoy coming in here and throwing around random statements. I no more take these statements any more seriously than someone saying "I can eat a bologna sandwich, therefore Calvinism is wrong!"

At any rate, God's peace to you

 

[Unreformedbythetruth]

I did already,

The whole scripture backs me up.

Right down when Jesus said the God loved the world that He gave His Son and right down to Jesus did not come to condemn the world, but to save it.

The world has a hope through Jesus Christ

Jesus has undid what Adam did.

See you view scripture through predestination, I view even predestination through God's love for the the world.

As long as you don't believe that God loved the world and gave a hope through Jesus Christ to the world. You will never see any scripture they way I do.

I will give it a shot, but like I said and what I seen before you will see it different from me.

I just pray that men will go back and not forget what Christ convinced them of when they were infants, That God loved the world that He gave His Son.

If you do not believe that God loved the world and the hope He gives through Jesus Christ then you never see any truth in any other scripture.

This is the scripture that shows that Christ undid what Adam did, but you will not see in through calvins eyes, but only through God's who does not want any to perish, but all to come to repentance.

[BIBLE]Death Through Adam, Life Through Christ

Romans 5

12Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, and in this way death came to all men, because all sinned— 13for before the law was given, sin was in the world. But sin is not taken into account when there is no law. 14Nevertheless, death reigned from the time of Adam to the time of Moses, even over those who did not sin by breaking a command, as did Adam, who was a pattern of the one to come. 15But the gift is not like the trespass. For if the many died by the trespass of the one man, how much more did God's grace and the gift that came by the grace of the one man, Jesus Christ, overflow to the many! 16Again, the gift of God is not like the result of the one man's sin: The judgment followed one sin and brought condemnation, but the gift followed many trespasses and brought justification. 17For if, by the trespass of the one man, death reigned through that one man, how much more will those who receive God's abundant provision of grace and of the gift of righteousness reign in life through the one man, Jesus Christ.

18Consequently, just as the result of one trespass was condemnation for all men, so also the result of one act of righteousness was justification that brings life for all men.[/BIBLE]

If only you will take off the calvin glasses and see the hope for the world

 

[akolouthein]

I did already,

The whole scripture backs me up.

Right down when Jesus said the God loved the world that He gave His Son and right down to Jesus did not come to condemn the world, but to save it.

The world has a hope through Jesus Christ

Jesus has undid what Adam did.

See you view scripture through predestination, I view even predestination through God's love for the the world.

As long as you don't believe that God loved the world and gave a hope through Jesus Christ to the world. You will never see any scripture they way I do.

I will give it a shot, but like I said and what I seen before you will see it different from me.

I just pray that men will go back and not forget what Christ convinced them of when they were infants, That God loved the world that He gave His Son.

If you do not believe that God loved the world and the hope He gives through Jesus Christ then you never see any truth in any other scripture.

This is the scripture that shows that Christ undid what Adam did, but you will not see in through calvins eyes, but only through God's who does not want any to perish, but all to come to repentance.

[BIBLE]Death Through Adam, Life Through Christ

Romans 5

12Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, and in this way death came to all men, because all sinned— 13for before the law was given, sin was in the world. But sin is not taken into account when there is no law. 14Nevertheless, death reigned from the time of Adam to the time of Moses, even over those who did not sin by breaking a command, as did Adam, who was a pattern of the one to come. 15But the gift is not like the trespass. For if the many died by the trespass of the one man, how much more did God's grace and the gift that came by the grace of the one man, Jesus Christ, overflow to the many! 16Again, the gift of God is not like the result of the one man's sin: The judgment followed one sin and brought condemnation, but the gift followed many trespasses and brought justification. 17For if, by the trespass of the one man, death reigned through that one man, how much more will those who receive God's abundant provision of grace and of the gift of righteousness reign in life through the one man, Jesus Christ.

18Consequently, just as the result of one trespass was condemnation for all men, so also the result of one act of righteousness was justification that brings life for all men.[/BIBLE]

If only you will take off the calvin glasses and see the hope for the world

So basically you believe all men will be saved then?

You say the biblical view is the view of God's love solely. We say the biblical view is the view of God's sovereignty. We do not concentrate on our own selfish desire to see God fulfilling OUR idea of love. It is not about what our idea of love is, it is about what God's idea of love is. Lets face it it takes alot of love, even in our own view of love, just to choose some of the people in the world to save considering how evil we are when born.

The scripture you provided can only be interpreted two ways in my opinion. Either God means to save all whom he meant to save through his sacrifice or God means to save every single man on the globe which is totally ludacris. This scripture is used to attempt to disprove election by saying God intended ALL men to be saved. I do not see how you can see that view as a biblical view taking into account the numerous scriptures which state some will go to Hell. I'm still waiting on these :

Give us some scripture that states the spirit has a choice. Give us some scripture that states the elect are nothing more than messengers. Give us some scripture that states we had a choice at the cross.

 

[Unreformedbythetruth]

His sacrifice was for those who accepted Him.

It is for the world, but God did not incline their hearts to believe, but He gave them a choice to believe and be saved or not to believe and be condemned.

Calvinist actually leads to universalist, because I witnessed to universalist also.It was from him that I learned about calvinist. He said that God picks who will be saved, so God does not want anyone to perish, so all will be saved.

That is not true because God gave the world a choice, but there will be those who will never believe and never repent and blame God for there sores.

Ever since Adam man wanted to blame God for their death. It was the women you made me, it was the serpent you created. Now calvinist gives men a bigger excuse, it is because God did not pick me.

We can't blame God any more, because He has offered the world salvation and made His elect the messeger.

If we don't believe or if we never hear the message it will be mans fault for not given the world the hope through Jesus Christ, or man not accepted Christ by there own choice, that has been given to them by God.

Ezekiel 3

18 When I say to a wicked man, 'You will surely die,' and you do not warn him or speak out to dissuade him from his evil ways in order to save his life, that wicked man will die for [Or in] his sin, and I will hold you accountable for his blood. 19 But if you do warn the wicked man and he does not turn from his wickedness or from his evil ways, he will die for his sin; but you will have saved yourself. 20 "Again, when a righteous man turns from his righteousness and does evil, and I put a stumbling block before him, he will die. Since you did not warn him, he will die for his sin. The righteous things he did will not be remembered, and I will hold you accountable for his blood. 21 But if you do warn the righteous man not to sin and he does not sin, he will surely live because he took warning, and you will have saved yourself."