dependency

[lutherangerman]

Hi,

I wanted to ask, how do you handle the issue of need in love?

Normally I would say I like to be independent. And when in my life I get to meet someone needy, I try to restore his or her independence.

But maybe need and dependency should be seen differently in a christian context. After all, no christian can be said to be independent - for we all depend on God and in time we even move into increasing dependency on Him.

But how does that work in a marriage? Suppose you are married and your wife really needs you emotionally. Has the husband now an obligation to satisfy all of his wife's needs always, or should he try to help her become more stable and able to look after herself?

Personally, I'm not married so I don't know. I live with my mother and I have found I do have needs such as my mother refraining from scolding and getting down hard on me. I can get by even if she doesn't refrain from that but it's very unpleasant for me.

So I do have a need and don't want to just swallow it. Likewise, my mother also needs me for certain things, for example she expects me to be financially stable and don't go into debt.

I know that in the world many people strive for the maximally possible independence. The more you can rely on yourself, the less you need others and, I guess that's what people think, the less you will be hurt. But is that really the christian goal for our life? Is it not more about clearly defined responsibilities, and then the law of Christ which is about carrying each other's burden?

Is that a viable way in marriage too, or does marriage have its own rules? How does romantic love factor into that? For example, in romance most women would say they want a strong partner. And in many people's minds, strength equals independence. So we're back at that again.

What do you think?

 

[Conservativation]

Hi,

I wanted to ask, how do you handle the issue of need in love?

Normally I would say I like to be independent. And when in my life I get to meet someone needy, I try to restore his or her independence.

But maybe need and dependency should be seen differently in a christian context. After all, no christian can be said to be independent - for we all depend on God and in time we even move into increasing dependency on Him.

But how does that work in a marriage? Suppose you are married and your wife really needs you emotionally. Has the husband now an obligation to satisfy all of his wife's needs always, or should he try to help her become more stable and able to look after herself?

Personally, I'm not married so I don't know. I live with my mother and I have found I do have needs such as my mother refraining from scolding and getting down hard on me. I can get by even if she doesn't refrain from that but it's very unpleasant for me.

So I do have a need and don't want to just swallow it. Likewise, my mother also needs me for certain things, for example she expects me to be financially stable and don't go into debt.

I know that in the world many people strive for the maximally possible independence. The more you can rely on yourself, the less you need others and, I guess that's what people think, the less you will be hurt. But is that really the christian goal for our life? Is it not more about clearly defined responsibilities, and then the law of Christ which is about carrying each other's burden?

Is that a viable way in marriage too, or does marriage have its own rules? How does romantic love factor into that? For example, in romance most women would say they want a strong partner. And in many people's minds, strength equals independence. So we're back at that again.

What do you think?

The bold is the question of the times, in terms of marriage and gender and Christians. It presents the dichotomy that is the wood from which the wedge is made that leads so many to discontentment in marriage, especially women as men seem unable to meet this need, all the while the need is trumpeted as THE defining reason FOR marriage....much like men would raise the topic of sex, women raise this need as the operative ingredient.

In my opinion she must find a way to do both....rely on God....AND expect her husband to be there. And thats OK that she expect that, as it is likewise ok he have certain expectations. Allowing these expectations to go primary, to the extent that they mask our dependence on God (which is evidenced by divorcing because a need is not being met in marriage by the spouse) and cause the redacting of every incidence of longsuffering in Gods word.

 

[Luther073082]

Hmm, in terms of completly dependency I guess the question is really what you mean.

Its good for your spouse to depend on you emotionally, and you should be there to fulfill their emotional needs as much as possible. (As we should be attempting to fulfill all needs for our spouse) However I guess it certainly is possible for this to go too far and become unhealthy.

If for instance someone has a major depressive episode or a panic attack of some sort by just being away from someone for a few hours this would be unhealthy and it would be your duty to try to get your spouse some help with this issue.

The bible tells us to love our wives as Christ loved the church. And in that we have to sacrifice of ourselves, our plans, and our desires on behalf of our wives when they need it. To where the primary focus of our life is how we are loving our wife and that nothing should ever come in the way of properly loving our wife.

Love does not mean always fulfilling her wants, but it means fulfilling her needs. And in the example I gave of a wife going into a depression or a panic attack after being away from her spouse for only a few hours, her needs would really be getting professional help for that problem.

Marriage is not for independently minded people, at its core its a collectivist effort. After marriage you can no longer live life for yourself but you must live your life for your spouse as well.

Someone should attempt to be independent enough (if possible) to where they could live on if something happened to their spouse. That they don't depend on their spouse for life itself. But trying to be an independent person is not compatable with Christian marriage. The Bible tells us that we are to become "one flesh".

Becomming one flesh means alot more then just having sex. A person is still one flesh with their spouse even when they are not having sex. Being one flesh means literally uniting your lives and your goals. Your primary considerations, espeically long term considerations in life no longer focus on you, but it focuses on "us".

For a married person their personal goals and the married couple's goals should be the same thing. There really is very little room for independence in marriage.

 

[lutherangerman]

Well the thing is I am trying to figure out if marriage is for me. I do know that romantic love can be very very fulfilling, that it is something great. But I am also aware that being married may mean a lot of sacrifice. St. Paul argues that while marriage is something legitimate it can mean a weight and a burden. I also don't know how much I can rely on my own capacity to love romantically, that is deeply and strongly, for a long time. In my brief relationships so far I found the experience ok, and sometimes I really liked it, but then always came times when I longed to be free again, and when these short relationships ended, I was not too sad about it. Except one time, then I really fell for someone head over heels and when we didn't get to be together I was unhappy about it for years. And even now this Gary Moore song, "Still got the blues for you", rings true for me as far as that girl is concerned. I know it may sound a little insane, and it was a bit crazy, but that's also one reason why for now I stay away from romantic love, I am scared of its power to turn whole lives around, which may happen in a negative way instead of in a positive way.

So for now I've decided to remain single and instead to cultivate my friendships with people. It's a good life so far and it seems like it's not worth risking it again.

So I was not just asking about the needs in the terms of women needing their guy, but also in the terms of men needing their girls. Let me explain ... when you have a good mother you can depend on her almost always. You can tell her everything and don't have to fear rejection. But with girls I am not so sure anymore. I always feel I would quickly loose my love interest if I reveal too much about myself. There is this song from The Doors, "When You're Strange", it says in one line that women are wicked when you're unwanted. As good as it feels to be wanted by a girl you love, it feels as horrible if you love someone and they don't want you (anymore). I've only met one girl in my life with whom I think I could start a serious relationship project, and she is a sincere christian. But I just didn't fall for her like I fell for that girl I mentioned above. It's like it were two different kinds of love, and I don't know what to do in that other kind of love ... it seems safer, it seems truer to the idea of love in a christian sense, it seems warmer overall. But in my life I have only followed the other kind of love so far, romantic to the extreme, so much that it was mad at times.

So I am a bit confused and undecided, I don't want to risk the new stability that I have found in my life. On the other hand, romance seems to be a very earthly thing and will maybe not be available in the next life, so maybe I am missing a unique experience of life that I don't have many chances to find.

 

[McScribe]

There seems to be a need for a formula for this kind of thing, but it does exist and is fairly simple. The ultimate need we have is to be of God, to relate to God. The other stuff needs to flow from that rather than just being some needs we have AND God.

I mean essentially we're talking about having a sense of character within your marriage and having a sense of wisdom about what needs to happen and what needs to be done, right?

 

[Luther073082]

Well whats sort of stuff is there to be revealed that you are afraid would scare love interests away? I find that people often overestimate how strange they are based on their little quirks and think their strangeness scares people away when it can acctually endear them to the right person.

I think of greater concern is the fact that you only seem to like your relationships to be of the short term nature. You definatly don't want to get married and then start feeling that itch for freedom and independence.

 

[FaithPrevails]

The best way to answer the question regarding dependency, IMO, is to ask how these needs are met when single/not married.

If we are not married, we have to either satisfy these needs independently or the need often goes unmet. So, ideally, we have a way of satisfying the need independently when we enter into a marriage.

That doesn't mean that we don't expect/need/want our spouse to now meet that need on some (or, in certain instances all) levels. But, rather than having what they do replace how the need was met previously, it is ideal that they now complement how we met the need previously. Of course, can be exceptions - such as physical intimacy (IMO - not looking to start a discussion/debate about it), but overall, we should not suddenly look to our spouse to have all of our needs met.

 

[lutherangerman]

Luther, well I am scared that I am one of those people with an interesting faccade, but when it comes down to it I am not very interesting inside. Some might find me really shabby and immature, for example I am 32 years old and I still love to play computer games. I am also rather eccentric in many things and I guess I am on the way to becoming an, as they say, "eternal odd bachelor". Sometimes I have days and weeks when I feel like I am really myself and then I want to change my life and make it all real and shining and interesting again, but that desire usually fades after a while until I am back at gaming all the time. When I think of romance and what I might desire from it I think of meeting some girl that isn't super sexy or something, I think of meeting someone who is just like me, not that attractive maybe, but creative, a bit eccentric and crazy in some things, intelligent, educated and with a solid spiritual life.

The other thing that troubles me is that in my atheist past I was really a pervert in some of the sexual things. Apostle Paul wrote that those who sin sexually sin against their own bodies, and I feel pain about that many times. It's terrible when the memories come back and when I have to ask myself how could I forget my human dignity in these things? And I can't blame it all on the atheism either, I know plenty atheistic or agnostic people who didn't fall for sexual perversions. And I feel I must always carry these memories as "my dark secret" or how people put it. It's such shameful stuff. I didn't hurt anyone with it but myself, but it's hard for me to accept that I went this path once. I know Jesus forgives and I have absolutely reached a point where I have given up all of this and don't feel any desire to go back to it, but I have lost the carefreeness about sexuality that many other people enjoy and which seems to be a requirement for enjoying a relationship with a woman in marriage.

About the preference for short term relationships, well I think I know myself to the extent that if I really fall in love with someone I am crazy about it and go into it full force. But only, since that story with the girl I mentioned in the above post went wrong, since then I haven't fallen in love like that again. It just doesn't hit me anymore and I feel so detached from what happens. The short term relationships (nothing sexual in them, I've been careful) were nice, and had some beautiful moments, but as I said, when they ended I wasn't really sad about it but welcomed to be free again.

 

[FaithPrevails]

MOD HAT ON

Moved from main Married Couples section to the Singles sub-forum in Married Couples.

MOD HAT OFF​

 

[katautumn]

This is a really good question. While I believe everyone is individually ultimately responsible for their own emotional wellbeing, I believe that a spouse is obligated to be emotionally supportive of their spouse. For example, I have anxiety disorder. While my husband is always very understanding and sympathetic to this, he can't make me satisfied with my condition. Only I can make total peace with myself in that regard. His unconditional love and support plays a huge role in that, though.

To address your concerns over whether or not you're destined to be the eternal bachelor, you're the only one who can decide that. I once briefly dated a very nice man before I met my husband. This guy was mature, steady, patient, encouraging, attentive and upbeat. He was a good deal older than I was (I was twenty-two, he was thirty-seven at the time) and had never been married. He had lived alone with his cat for so long, shying away from companionship, that he had grown accustomed to living life "his way". He had a set routine, no one to hold him accountable. Because of this he could never commit to a woman.

One day, not long ago, he sent me an IM via Yahoo while I was checking my e-mail. Surprised he got in touch after this long, I happily replied asking him how he was doing. We made some idle chit-chat and he asked me how I was doing. I told him I had married and was very happy. He took awhile to respond and he wrote back that one of his greatest regrets was letting me go. He told me, "I wanted to be a husband and father from the time I was a young man, but I never felt I had the opportunity. When the opportunity presented itself, I stupidly let it go. Now I guess I'm too old to get married and have kids." Being the "girl that got away" wasn't a real feather in my cap, I can assure you. In fact, I've been burdened with a great deal of sadness for this man, as I know him to truly be a great catch if it weren't for being so afraid of letting go of that total control over his life to be in a partnership with someone else.

Not all people are cut out for marriage, but most people want lifelong companionship and intimacy. Some people, however, are too afraid of relinquishing that control and autonomy or being responsible for someone else that they let golden opportunities for said companionship slip through their fingers. Only you can decide what it is, exactly, you want out of life and be at peace with your decision.

 

[If Not For Grace]

I did not NEED to get married, I wanted to. I view it as a partnership, kind of like forming a business. There needs to be shared goals. Each needs to have areas of expertise and to recongonize the expertise of the other. It's also like driving a car on a long working vacation. Sometimes I drive & sometimes he does, (the car is jointly owned). You fill in each others "blanks". You make vows-and a legal committment to each other. What one vows to do one should fulfill. I don't "hook-up" in my inner circle with so called "needy" (I call em emotional vampires) people. Let each of us have "all we need" for the most part & then we can enhance each other.

Do not fall in love w/a person's potential, fall in love w/the person. The key Element in marriage IS TRUST. Trust is greater than Love. You can love someone you do not trust, but you can not Trust someone you do not love. (JMHO)

 

[Godsproperty777]

Luther
I understand exactly what you are saying. I am married to really a wonderful man, but I am a terrible marriage partner. I really am. I am eccentric, independent, distant, quiet...a recluse really.

I just apologized to my husband yesterday that I married him, he really got a rotten deal because he is the opposite of me. He's friendly, funny, noisy, social and emotionally available.

So the point is, I felt like he could have done better than having me as a spouse. I think you might be thinking that about yourself. The other aspect is that feeling of wanting to get free of people. I understand that.

It's not the a person is needy or a pain in the butt, it's just at some point the relationship becomes exhausting instead of refreshing? Is that about right?

Pray on who you are and what kind of man G-d has made you to be. Then figure out if you are going to drain a spouse or refresh her. Would you be drained or refreshed?

Truly, some people are better off not "afflicting" someone else with themselves and I am speaking about myself here, not you

 

[If Not For Grace]

Has the husband now an obligation to satisfy all of his wife's needs always,

Obligation-NO, but Love creates the DESIRE (2 different things) to please-if it's a healthy love meeting the other persons desires will GIVE YOU pleasure & is by no means a burden, and you will DESIRE to do it whenever/wherever you can.

 

[SgtBen]

I have a gentler answer.

First of all, sex comes waaaaaayyy down the list of priorities. You do not base upon a relationship of how great the sex is. First, it is fleeting, whether due to health issues or other junk.

You know you're in a great relationship that will last when 1) you can talk freely with each other and 2) while talking, she understands you and 3) you understand her and keep talking.

Also, you must have shared interests, as we do, her interests and mine mingle well. Everything from politics to everyday stuff we are in fact just a little different but we work it out, like coming together on landscaping, the house, the roof color, bathroom decor, stuff like that.

Remember life is waaaaayyy too short to fuss about junk. It is best to just speak to one another and work it out.

 

[anewday]

Good question. When it comes to dependency/independence in marriage, its give and take, in a sense. Before I was married, I was very independent. It actually scared a lot of men off. Most of my relationships were short, although I wanted to be in one badly. When my husband and I met and married, we both struggled with our independence, since we both were single and didn't get married until "later" in life (me mid 30s, he low 40s). We were both independent people before marriage, and carried that into marriage, which caused problems at first. I'm not as independent as I used to be, which isn't a bad thing. I've just learned over time that its perfectly fine to depend on my husband for certain things.