Departure of the church is true and real because God said so!

[trialbyfire]

There are several here who are preaching some extraordinary falsehoods about the "rapture" of the church, namely that it's a lie.

You would have to deny scripture, God's own Word, to believe that the rapture of the church is a lie.

You would have to declare everything Paul taught to be a lie and completely discredit him.

God not only tells us that the church will be removed to heaven prior to wrath, but He tells us that event will happen before the Day of the Lord begins. By the way, the antichrist is here during the Day of the Lord/Wrath, blaspheming the church while we are rejoicing in heaven, according to Revelation 12 and 13.

 

[trialbyfire]

#1. The Holy Spirit indwells the church. We hear Him. We walk in step with the Spirit of God. The Holy Spirit will NEVER tell us something contrary to God's own Word. The Holy Spirit is given as a deposit guaranteeing what is to come. If the Spirit of God dwells in you, you are going to heaven when Jesus gathers the church. This is the same as the parable of the 10 virgins - the one's with oil (Holy Spirit) go in.

#2. So many scriptures tells us that not only is there indeed a "rapture" or "gathering of the church to Christ", aka "departure", "taken out of the way" but the absolute timing of it as well.

#3. Jesus Himself described it as did Paul, and several places in the Old Testament.

Jhn 11:25Jesus said to her, "I am the resurrection and the life. He who believes in me will live, even though he dies;
Jhn 11:26and whoever lives and believes in me will never die. Do you believe this?"


#4. The "rapture" involves a change from mortality to immortality. It is not something that has already been given, as some suggest. It is something that happens at a specific moment in time - at the resurrection and departure of the church to the throne of God. This change is known in Scripture (both old and new testament) as "white robes", "robes of righteousness", "garments of salvation". Our new immortal bodies are described in terms of apparel.

 

[trialbyfire]

More Scriptural evidence:

Revelation 12:10And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.

11And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death. 12Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.


Revelation 13:5And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months. 6And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven.

2Th 2:1Now, brothers, concerning the coming of our Lord Yeshua the Messiah, and our gathering together to him, we ask you
2Th 2:2not to be quickly shaken in your mind, nor yet be troubled, either by spirit, or by word, or by letter as from us, saying that the day of Messiah had come.
2Th 2:3Let no one deceive you in any way. For it will not be, unless the departure comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of destruction,
2Th 2:4he who opposes and exalts himself against all that is called God or that is worshiped; so that he sits as God in the temple of God, setting himself up as God.
2Th 2:5Don't you remember that, when I was still with you, I told you these things?
2Th 2:6Now you know what is restraining him, to the end that he may be revealed in his own season.
2Th 2:7For the mystery of lawlessness already works. Only there is one who restrains now, until he is taken out of the way.
2Th 2:8Then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will kill with the breath of his mouth, and bring to nothing by the brightness of his coming;



Psalm 50: 4He shall call to the heavens from above, and to the earth, that he may judge his people. 5Gather my saints together unto me; those that have made a covenant with me by sacrifice.


Joel 2:15Blow the trumpet in Zion, sanctify a fast, call a solemn assembly:
16Gather the people, sanctify the congregation, assemble the elders, gather the children, and those that suck the breasts: let the bridegroom go forth of his chamber, and the bride out of her closet.



Isaiah 26: 19Thy dead men shall live, together with my dead body shall they arise. Awake and sing, ye that dwell in dust: for thy dew is as the dew of herbs, and the earth shall cast out the dead.
20Come, my people, enter thou into thy chambers, and shut thy doors about thee: hide thyself as it were for a little moment, until the indignation be overpast. 21For, behold, the LORD cometh out of his place to punish the inhabitants of the earth for their iniquity: the earth also shall disclose her blood, and shall no more cover her slain.



Revelation 7: 9After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;
10And cried with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our God which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb.
11And all the angels stood round about the throne, and about the elders and the four beasts, and fell before the throne on their faces, and worshipped God,
12Saying, Amen: Blessing, and glory, and wisdom, and thanksgiving, and honour, and power, and might, be unto our God for ever and ever. Amen.
13And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they?
14And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.
15Therefore are they before the throne of God, and serve him day and night in his temple: and he that sitteth on the throne shall dwell among them.
16They shall hunger no more, neither thirst any more; neither shall the sun light on them, nor any heat. 17For the Lamb which is in the midst of the throne shall feed them, and shall lead them unto living fountains of waters: and God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes.


Psalm 75


1Unto thee, O God, do we give thanks, unto thee do we give thanks: for that thy name is near thy wondrous works declare. 2When I shall receive the congregation I will judge uprightly.



1 Peter 1: 3Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,
4To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you, 5Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.



16For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. 18Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

1But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you.
2For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.
3For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.
4But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.
5Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness.
6Therefore let us not sleep, as do others; but let us watch and be sober.
7For they that sleep sleep in the night; and they that be drunken are drunken in the night.
8But let us, who are of the day, be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love; and for an helmet, the hope of salvation.
9For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,
10Who died for us, that, whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with him. 11Wherefore comfort yourselves together, and edify one another, even as also ye do.

As scripture says, the departure of the church, aka our gathering together to Christ will happen before the Day of the Lord (wrath) begins, after the great tribulation (which began with Israel's desolation and continues to this day) is cut short. It is real. It is truth. It is imminent.

 

[WailingWall]

Hi Trialbyfire
Maybe then you could answer a few questions i have concerning the rapture. Dont you believe that God could protect us here?

 

[WailingWall]

1COR.15 [50] Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.[51] Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,[52] In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, AT THE LAST TRUMP: FOR THE TRUMPET SHALL SOUND, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.[53] For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.[54] So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

The above scripture points out that “we shall all be changed” as the LAST TRUMPET is blown.

MATTHEW 24 [29]IMMEDIATELY AFTER THE TRIBULATION of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: [30] And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. [31] And he shall send his angels with A GREAT SOUND OF A TRUMPET, and THEY SHALL GATHER TOGETHER HIS ELECT from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Here we find a trumpet being blown after the tribulation period. No matter how ya figure it, you cannot have the LAST TRUMPET being blown prior to the tribulation or mid tribulation if a trumpet is being blown AFTER the tribulation.

 

[trialbyfire]

Hi Trialbyfire
Maybe then you could answer a few questions i have concerning the rapture. Dont you believe that God could protect us here?

Yes, absolutely.

In fact, he protects the people known as the 144,000 of Israel on earth during the time of wrath. In Revelation 7 they are sealed before the 1st and 2nd trumpets of the 7th seal. In Revelation 9 they are unharmed by the devil when he tortures people for five months.

 

[trialbyfire]

1COR.15 [50] Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.[51] Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,[52] In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, AT THE LAST TRUMP: FOR THE TRUMPET SHALL SOUND, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.[53] For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.[54] So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

The above scripture points out that “we shall all be changed” as the LAST TRUMPET is blown.

MATTHEW 24 [29]IMMEDIATELY AFTER THE TRIBULATION of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: [30] And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. [31] And he shall send his angels with A GREAT SOUND OF A TRUMPET, and THEY SHALL GATHER TOGETHER HIS ELECT from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Here we find a trumpet being blown after the tribulation period. No matter how ya figure it, you cannot have the LAST TRUMPET being blown prior to the tribulation or mid tribulation if a trumpet is being blown AFTER the tribulation.

The gathering at the last trumpet is found in Joel 2.

Jesus said that the tribulation is over before the sun and moon darken/stars fall in Matthew 24.

That same moment in time is found in Joel 2.

The tribulation is not the same thing as the Day of the Lord/Wrath.

According to Jesus, the tribulation began when Israel was desolated and continues "until the time of the end". Hosea 6 tells us that Israel would be desolated for "two days" (2000 years) and be raised up on the 3rd day.


Joel 2:15Blow the trumpet in Zion, sanctify a fast, call a solemn assembly: 16Gather the people, sanctify the congregation, assemble the elders, gather the children, and those that suck the breasts: let the bridegroom go forth of his chamber, and the bride out of her closet.

As soon as the great tribulation is cut short by God, a remnant of Israel is sealed and the church departs. Then God destroys gog and the antichrist is allowed to arise. God will use the antichrist to accomplish God's will on the Day of the Lord/Wrath.

Revelation 17:17For God hath put in their hearts to fulfil his will, and to agree, and give their kingdom unto the beast, until the words of God shall be fulfilled.

Back to the last trumpet, for a second:

In Hebrew, trumpet is "jubilee" or "yovel". God declares 6000 years for fallen flesh in Genesis (120 x 50 jubilees = 6000 years).

The last jubilee (trumpet) is 6000 years after Adam fell. It is also the second of two trumpets that God established in the Old Testament for calling the camp to Him.

Jesus specifically told us when the tribulation began, when it ends and what happens after it in Matthew 24. It has nothing to do with the antichrist. In fact, Jesus said that false christs, false prophets, false miracles arise after the tribulation is cut short.
Revelation and Joel confirm the order of events as Jesus declared them.

The tribulation (wars, famines, plagues, persecution, martyrdom) is not the Day of the Lord/Wrath (trumpets, antichrist, bowls - 7th seal).

 

[Bob Jones Student]

I believe in the rapture, and I'm sure a lot of us do... however we've come to the Biblical understanding of it... that the rapture is at the end of the tribulation. Matthew 24, 1 Cor., Thessalonians, etc. when all added up, and understood all point to the second coming of Christ is also the timing of the rapture. The point is to gather us together to Him, and we immediately come back.

Regarding protection, we'll probably be protected from the wrath that God pours out, but I would almost assume that many, many of us will be slaughtered at the hands of the evil people during the tribulation.

 

[trialbyfire]

I believe in the rapture, and I'm sure a lot of us do... however we've come to the Biblical understanding of it... that the rapture is at the end of the tribulation. Matthew 24, 1 Cor., Thessalonians, etc. when all added up, and understood all point to the second coming of Christ is also the timing of the rapture. The point is to gather us together to Him, and we immediately come back.

Regarding protection, we'll probably be protected from the wrath that God pours out, but I would almost assume that many, many of us will be slaughtered at the hands of the evil people during the tribulation.

You were right up until you said "and we immediately come back".

The rapture is indeed at the end of the tribulation. Jesus told us when the tribulation began, when it ends and what happens after it in Matthew 24, confirmed by Revelation and Joel.

The tribulation has nothing to do with the antichrist. Jesus told us that the antichrist arises after the tribulation is cut short which is what Revelation shows us as well.

15When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand)

16Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:

21For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
22And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.
23Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not. 24For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.


Hosea shows us that the desolation of Israel would last 2 days (2000 years) and that they would be restored on the 3rd Day (millenium).

Hosea 6


1Come, and let us return unto the LORD: for he hath torn, and he will heal us; he hath smitten, and he will bind us up. 2After two days will he revive us: in the third day he will raise us up, and we shall live in his sight.

Another way to know how long the great tribulation is:

Revelation 7 shows the church standing in heaven, having come out of great tribulation, having washed in the blood of the Lamb. People have been able to "wash in the blood of the Lamb" for about 2000 years now.
They are standing in heaven when a remnant of Israel is sealed on earth. Israel is sealed on earth before the 1st and 2nd trumpets of the 7th seal.
The 7th seal is the Day of the Lord (wrath).

 

[trialbyfire]

There are only two places that show the glorified church on the move back towards earth. Revelation 19 and Revelation 21. One is when Christ comes to destroy and one is after death is destroyed at the GWT judgment.

 

[WailingWall]

Hi Bob Jones
Is there even one scripture that says we are heading for heaven after we are changed in the twinkling of an eye?

 

[trialbyfire]

John 14


John 14:1Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me.
2In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. 3And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.


Phl 3:20But our citizenship is in heaven. And we eagerly await a Savior from there, the Lord Jesus Christ,
Phl 3:21who, by the power that enables him to bring everything under his control, will transform our lowly bodies so that they will be like his glorious body.



Hbr 12:22 But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels,
Hbr 12:23To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,
Hbr 12:24 And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than [that of] Abel.


Rev 7:9After this I looked and there before me was a great multitude that no one could count, from every nation, tribe, people and language, standing before the throne and in front of the Lamb. They were wearing white robes and were holding palm branches in their hands.
Rev 7:10And they cried out in a loud voice: "Salvation belongs to our God, who sits on the throne, and to the Lamb."


Rev 12:10Then I heard a loud voice in heaven say: "Now have come the salvation and the power and the kingdom of our God, and the authority of his Christ. For the accuser of our brothers, who accuses them before our God day and night, has been hurled down.
Rev 12:11They overcame him by the blood of the Lamb and by the word of their testimony; they did not love their lives so much as to shrink from death.
Rev 12:12Therefore rejoice, you heavens and you who dwell in them! But woe to the earth and the sea, because the devil has gone down to you! He is filled with fury, because he knows that his time is short."

Rev 14:1Then I looked, and there before me was the Lamb, standing on Mount Zion, and with him 144,000 who had his name and his Father's name written on their foreheads.

 

[WailingWall]

The gathering at the last trumpet is found in Joel 2.

Jesus said that the tribulation is over before the sun and moon darken/stars fall in Matthew 24.

That same moment in time is found in Joel 2.

The tribulation is not the same thing as the Day of the Lord/Wrath.

According to Jesus, the tribulation began when Israel was desolated and continues "until the time of the end". Hosea 6 tells us that Israel would be desolated for "two days" (2000 years) and be raised up on the 3rd day.


Joel 2:15Blow the trumpet in Zion, sanctify a fast, call a solemn assembly: 16Gather the people, sanctify the congregation, assemble the elders, gather the children, and those that suck the breasts: let the bridegroom go forth of his chamber, and the bride out of her closet.

As soon as the great tribulation is cut short by God, a remnant of Israel is sealed and the church departs. Then God destroys gog and the antichrist is allowed to arise. God will use the antichrist to accomplish God's will on the Day of the Lord/Wrath.

Revelation 17:17For God hath put in their hearts to fulfil his will, and to agree, and give their kingdom unto the beast, until the words of God shall be fulfilled.

Back to the last trumpet, for a second:

In Hebrew, trumpet is "jubilee" or "yovel". God declares 6000 years for fallen flesh in Genesis (120 x 50 jubilees = 6000 years).

The last jubilee (trumpet) is 6000 years after Adam fell. It is also the second of two trumpets that God established in the Old Testament for calling the camp to Him.

Jesus specifically told us when the tribulation began, when it ends and what happens after it in Matthew 24. It has nothing to do with the antichrist. In fact, Jesus said that false christs, false prophets, false miracles arise after the tribulation is cut short.
Revelation and Joel confirm the order of events as Jesus declared them.

The tribulation (wars, famines, plagues, persecution, martyrdom) is not the Day of the Lord/Wrath (trumpets, antichrist, bowls - 7th seal).

So your neither a pre or mid trib rapturist. I that correct? Is there even 1 scripture that says we are off to heaven after the change (in the twinklin of an eye). I looked at those scriptures you posted in post no.12 and none really say we are headin for heaven at the changing

 

[WailingWall]

The gathering at the last trumpet is found in Joel 2.

So you believe the gathering found in the old testament and 1Cor.15 are speaking of the same event?

 

[trialbyfire]

So you believe the gathering found in the old testament and 1Cor.15 are speaking of the same event?

yes, as well as other places in the old testament.

 

[trialbyfire]

So your neither a pre or mid trib rapturist. I that correct? Is there even 1 scripture that says we are off to heaven after the change (in the twinklin of an eye). I looked at those scriptures you posted in post no.12 and none really say we are headin for heaven at the changing

The timing of the departure of the church is when Christ appears before the Day of the Lord/wrath begins after the tribulation is cut short.

You don't see that those scriptures "say we are headin for heaven at the changing"?

John 14:1Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me.
2In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. 3And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.


Phl 3:20But our citizenship is in heaven. And we eagerly await a Savior from there, the Lord Jesus Christ,
Phl 3:21who, by the power that enables him to bring everything under his control, will transform our lowly bodies so that they will be like his glorious body.



Hbr 12:22 But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels,
Hbr 12:23To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,
Hbr 12:24 And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than [that of] Abel.


Rev 7:9After this I looked and there before me was a great multitude that no one could count, from every nation, tribe, people and language, standing before the throne and in front of the Lamb. They were wearing white robes and were holding palm branches in their hands.
Rev 7:10And they cried out in a loud voice: "Salvation belongs to our God, who sits on the throne, and to the Lamb."


Rev 12:10Then I heard a loud voice in heaven say: "Now have come the salvation and the power and the kingdom of our God, and the authority of his Christ. For the accuser of our brothers, who accuses them before our God day and night, has been hurled down.
Rev 12:11They overcame him by the blood of the Lamb and by the word of their testimony; they did not love their lives so much as to shrink from death.
Rev 12:12Therefore rejoice, you heavens and you who dwell in them! But woe to the earth and the sea, because the devil has gone down to you! He is filled with fury, because he knows that his time is short."

Rev 14:1Then I looked, and there before me was the Lamb, standing on Mount Zion, and with him 144,000 who had his name and his Father's name written on their foreheads.


When do you think that change occurs? It occurs at the resurrection of the church, does it not?
When does that resurrection occur? What happens immediately after that resurrection of the church?
Paul said we will be caught up. Various places show that we will be in heaven, dwelling there, prior to wrath. The antichrist even blasphemes us in Revelation 13.


Isaiah 26: 19Thy dead men shall live, together with my dead body shall they arise. Awake and sing, ye that dwell in dust: for thy dew is as the dew of herbs, and the earth shall cast out the dead.
20Come, my people, enter thou into thy chambers, and shut thy doors about thee: hide thyself as it were for a little moment, until the indignation be overpast. 21For, behold, the LORD cometh out of his place to punish the inhabitants of the earth for their iniquity

 

[WailingWall]

Using the scriptures you posted you can do a short song and dance and come to the conclusion you wish but none directly say we are headin for heaven. The scripture below comes right out and says where we are going

EZEK.37
[12] Therefore prophesy and say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, O my people, I will open your graves, and cause you to come up out of your graves, and bring you into the land of Israel.
[13] And ye shall know that I am the LORD, when I have opened your graves, O my people, and brought you up out of your graves,

Theres THE DEAD IN CHRIST who rise first (1Thes.4). But..... there not headin for heaven.

[21] And say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I will take the children of Israel from among the heathen, whither they be gone, and will gather them on every side, and bring them into their own land:

Its the gathering of Gods people to Isreal for the 1000yr period of rest

 

[trialbyfire]

Using the scriptures you posted you can do a short song and dance and come to the conclusion you wish but none directly say we are headin for heaven. The scripture below comes right out and says where we are going

EZEK.37
[12] Therefore prophesy and say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, O my people, I will open your graves, and cause you to come up out of your graves, and bring you into the land of Israel.
[13] And ye shall know that I am the LORD, when I have opened your graves, O my people, and brought you up out of your graves,

Theres THE DEAD IN CHRIST who rise first (1Thes.4). But..... there not headin for heaven.

[21] And say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I will take the children of Israel from among the heathen, whither they be gone, and will gather them on every side, and bring them into their own land:

Its the gathering of Gods people to Isreal for the 1000yr period of rest

Revelation 7 shows two groups of people. One is a remnant of Israel that is sealed on earth before the 7th seal begins. One is a great multitude out of all nations that is standing before God in heaven.

The gathering of both occurs at the same time. Israel is sealed on earth when the church is gathered to heaven (which we know occurs in the twinkling of an eye).

Ezekiel 37 is specifically speaking of Israel.

11Then he said unto me, Son of man, these bones are the whole house of Israel: behold, they say, Our bones are dried, and our hope is lost: we are cut off for our parts.



21And say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I will take the children of Israel from among the heathen, whither they be gone, and will gather them on every side, and bring them into their own land:
22And I will make them one nation in the land upon the mountains of Israel; and one king shall be king to them all: and they shall be no more two nations, neither shall they be divided into two kingdoms any more at all. 23Neither shall they defile themselves any more with their idols, nor with their detestable things, nor with any of their transgressions: but I will save them out of all their dwellingplaces, wherein they have sinned, and will cleanse them: so shall they be my people, and I will be their God.


28And the heathen shall know that I the LORD do sanctify Israel, when my sanctuary shall be in the midst of them for evermore.

None of that in Ezek 37 describes the church at all. The church is not "the children of Israel" that are gathered from among the heathen, where they were sent, into "their own land". The church is not "one nation in the land upon the mountains of Israel". The church was not at one point, "two kingdoms, divided". The church is not brought back "into their own land" from where they were sent. This is all about Israel.

 

[trialbyfire]

These verses, on the other hand, show the church in heaven. It has become apparent to me that you aren't even reading these verses because you missed my questions. Therefore, you aren't being forthright.


John 14:1Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me.
2In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. 3And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.


Phl 3:20But our citizenship is in heaven. And we eagerly await a Savior from there, the Lord Jesus Christ,
Phl 3:21who, by the power that enables him to bring everything under his control, will transform our lowly bodies so that they will be like his glorious body.



Hbr 12:22 But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels,
Hbr 12:23To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,
Hbr 12:24 And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than [that of] Abel.


Rev 7:9After this I looked and there before me was a great multitude that no one could count, from every nation, tribe, people and language, standing before the throne and in front of the Lamb. They were wearing white robes and were holding palm branches in their hands.
Rev 7:10And they cried out in a loud voice: "Salvation belongs to our God, who sits on the throne, and to the Lamb."


Rev 12:10Then I heard a loud voice in heaven say: "Now have come the salvation and the power and the kingdom of our God, and the authority of his Christ. For the accuser of our brothers, who accuses them before our God day and night, has been hurled down.
Rev 12:11They overcame him by the blood of the Lamb and by the word of their testimony; they did not love their lives so much as to shrink from death.
Rev 12:12Therefore rejoice, you heavens and you who dwell in them! But woe to the earth and the sea, because the devil has gone down to you! He is filled with fury, because he knows that his time is short."

Rev 14:1Then I looked, and there before me was the Lamb, standing on Mount Zion, and with him 144,000 who had his name and his Father's name written on their foreheads.


Isaiah 26: 19Thy dead men shall live, together with my dead body shall they arise. Awake and sing, ye that dwell in dust: for thy dew is as the dew of herbs, and the earth shall cast out the dead.
20Come, my people, enter thou into thy chambers, and shut thy doors about thee: hide thyself as it were for a little moment, until the indignation be overpast. 21For, behold, the LORD cometh out of his place to punish the inhabitants of the earth for their iniquity

 

[ivebeenshown]

More Scriptural evidence:

Revelation 12:10And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.

I don't see where this says anyone was raptured into heaven.

11And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death. 12Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.

Angels dwell in heaven, and plenty of 'sleeping' Christians dwell in heaven. But I don't see where this mentions a rapture.

Revelation 13:5And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months. 6And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven.

Again, just because there are those who do dwell in heaven does not in itself state that anyone was raptured up to there.

2Th 2:1Now, brothers, concerning the coming of our Lord Yeshua the Messiah, and our gathering together to him, we ask you
2Th 2:2not to be quickly shaken in your mind, nor yet be troubled, either by spirit, or by word, or by letter as from us, saying that the day of Messiah had come.
2Th 2:3Let no one deceive you in any way. For it will not be, unless the departure comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of destruction,
2Th 2:4he who opposes and exalts himself against all that is called God or that is worshiped; so that he sits as God in the temple of God, setting himself up as God.
2Th 2:5Don't you remember that, when I was still with you, I told you these things?
2Th 2:6Now you know what is restraining him, to the end that he may be revealed in his own season.
2Th 2:7For the mystery of lawlessness already works. Only there is one who restrains now, until he is taken out of the way.
2Th 2:8Then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will kill with the breath of his mouth, and bring to nothing by the brightness of his coming;

I have a problem with your pasting here. The word 'departure' is 'apostasia', which is the same root word used for 'forsake' in the Greek texts. There is a large difference between being raptured and forsaking something.

Psalm 50: 4He shall call to the heavens from above, and to the earth, that he may judge his people. 5Gather my saints together unto me; those that have made a covenant with me by sacrifice.

This doesn't say when he does it, though.

Joel 2:15Blow the trumpet in Zion, sanctify a fast, call a solemn assembly:
16Gather the people, sanctify the congregation, assemble the elders, gather the children, and those that suck the breasts: let the bridegroom go forth of his chamber, and the bride out of her closet.

Doesn't say when it occurs.

Isaiah 26: 19Thy dead men shall live, together with my dead body shall they arise. Awake and sing, ye that dwell in dust: for thy dew is as the dew of herbs, and the earth shall cast out the dead.
20Come, my people, enter thou into thy chambers, and shut thy doors about thee: hide thyself as it were for a little moment, until the indignation be overpast. 21For, behold, the LORD cometh out of his place to punish the inhabitants of the earth for their iniquity: the earth also shall disclose her blood, and shall no more cover her slain.

I see this as the seventh trumpet in Revelation, just before the seven plagues are poured out.

Revelation 7: 9After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;
10And cried with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our God which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb.
11And all the angels stood round about the throne, and about the elders and the four beasts, and fell before the throne on their faces, and worshipped God,
12Saying, Amen: Blessing, and glory, and wisdom, and thanksgiving, and honour, and power, and might, be unto our God for ever and ever. Amen.
13And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they?
14And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.
15Therefore are they before the throne of God, and serve him day and night in his temple: and he that sitteth on the throne shall dwell among them.
16They shall hunger no more, neither thirst any more; neither shall the sun light on them, nor any heat. 17For the Lamb which is in the midst of the throne shall feed them, and shall lead them unto living fountains of waters: and God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes.

It doesn't mean they were raptured out, though. It could just be all of the souls that were martyred or 'feel asleep' up to that point.

Psalm 75
1Unto thee, O God, do we give thanks, unto thee do we give thanks: for that thy name is near thy wondrous works declare. 2When I shall receive the congregation I will judge uprightly.

Good, but doesn't say when it happens.

1 Peter 1: 3Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,
4To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you, 5Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

Interesting, I will study this one.

16For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. 18Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

Good, but doesn't say when one the timeline of events it happens.

1But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you.
2For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.
3For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.
4But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.
5Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness.
6Therefore let us not sleep, as do others; but let us watch and be sober.
7For they that sleep sleep in the night; and they that be drunken are drunken in the night.
8But let us, who are of the day, be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love; and for an helmet, the hope of salvation.
9For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,
10Who died for us, that, whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with him. 11Wherefore comfort yourselves together, and edify one another, even as also ye do.

Cool.

As scripture says, the departure of the church, aka our gathering together to Christ will happen before the Day of the Lord (wrath) begins, after the great tribulation (which began with Israel's desolation and continues to this day) is cut short. It is real. It is truth. It is imminent.

I agree that there is a 'rapture' of sorts, I don't think 'departure' in Thessalonians means 'rapture' because the Greek word 'apostasia' means 'forsaking'. This is why we have the term 'Apostate'.