Deny self.

[bmjackson]

Many Christians remain carnal, but God has not only called us to grow, but He has provided all of the power and the conditions necessary for growth.

But many sadly remain babes in Christ, whereas they should have gone on to 'perfection, attaining unto the full grown man'.

Sometimes the blame lies with preaching only a partial gospel, which makes salvation to consist solely of the hope of heaven and the pardon of forgiveness. If holiness is preached, it is not preached from the perspective that it is Christ who is our Sanctification and who gives the ability to walk in holiness, and that the indwelling of the Holy Spirit is necessary and that he must not be grieved.

Sometimes if these things are taught, it is the Christian who is unwilling to deny self so that the flesh can be crucified. God can only work in those who are willing to give themselves up to Him totally.

Christians will generally give up MOST of themselves but not entirely. The remaining sin will show that they are yet carnal. With the Corinthians, the sin remaining was their jealousy and strife. When Christians are not willing to give up the sin of selfishness and temper, wanting to retain the liberty of giving in to and excusing the loosing of control of their feelings and loosing control of the tongue with words pouring forth pronouncing their own judgements and speaking words that are not perfect in love-then they remain carnal.



This grieves the Holy Spirit, and He will depart leaving behind a conscience that will not witness that we are pleasing to God. God is love so let us put on love which is the 'bond of perfectness'.



The Corinthians were proud of their wisdom, but as the Rev. Andrew Murray says in 'The Spirit of Christ'-"There was nothing in His teaching that they would not have been able to comprehend with the understanding. But the real spiritual entering into the truth in power, so as to possess it and be possessed by it, so as to have not only the thought but the very thing the words speak of, this only the Holy Spirit can give. And He gives it to the spiritually minded man. The teaching and leading of the Holy Spirit is given to be obedient and is preceded by the dominion of the Spirit in mortifying the deeds of the body (Rom8v13-14)

Spiritual knowledge is not deep thought but living contact entering into and being united to the truth as it is in Jesus, as a spiritual reality. The Spirit teaches, combining spiritual things with spiritual. Into a spiritual mind He works spiritual truth. It is not even the earnest desire to know the truth that fits a man for the Spirits teaching; it is a life, yielded to Him in waiting dependence and full obedience that receives the spiritual wisdom and understanding.

As long as we are giving way to the flesh we are incapable of receiving spiritual insight into truth. We may 'know all mysteries and have all knowledge' without love, the love which the Spirit works in the inner life, it is only a 'knowledge that puffeth up, it profiteth nothing"

The carnal life makes the knowledge carnal"

End of Quote

And this knowledge, again being held in the 'fleshy mind' strengthens the 'religion of the flesh' of self effort and confidence and trust in self. The truth so received has no power to make us free and to renew our minds into the mind of Christ.

This is the reason that there is so much Bible knowledge but no spiritual result in a life of holiness.

EVERY CHRISTIAN IS CALLED TO BE A SPIRITUAL MAN.

And why does this not happen in the majority of cases? It is because God gives man the choice of refusing or co-operating with Him.

"As sure as the natural man can become regenerate man, so can a regenerate man who is still carnal, become spiritual" A. Murray.

It is the Holy Spirit alone who makes the man spiritual, and He does it when the whole man, spirit soul and body is yielded up to Him in willing obedience to be under His control, to be moved and guided only by Him and no more by our own thoughts and desires. Ant the first step is by faith.

As we are filled by faith in what HE CAN DO, WE THEN MUST GIVE UP ALL WORKS OF THE FLESH in the sphere of religion. All confidence in the flesh all self effort and self struggling, all thoughts that we can succeed if we only try harder must be rooted out and the soul brought into the captivity and subjection of Jesus Christ.

By walking in obedience and by faith we can have confidence that the Holy Spirit will do the work in us and we will trust that we will, through Him have the ability and strength needed to walk in the Spirit, as we yield ourselves up to His Mighty working in us so that ALL we do will be pleasing in the sight of God allowing us to dwell in the house of the Lord forever.

"Believe! Rise from the disciple stage which savoureth not the things that be of God, to the spiritual Pentecostal condition" Saphir.

"The lesson that true spiritual insight into God's Word depends upon a spiritual life is one of great solemnity for all ministers and teachers of the Word" A Murray.

 

[timothyu]

There is no way until death to completely abandon the animal of our dual nature, but Jesus gave us the option of following the governance of God over the self serving governance of man. God asks for allegiance, not perfection. We chose the Kingdom while in the world but not of it, or we remain supportive of the adversarial world of man, in it and of it.

 

[~Anastasia~]

That is generally the purpose of "disciplines" ... of which there are many. Fasting is primary for most (and very effective). But there are many kinds of disciplines, suited for the particular person and their particular struggles.

And when mastery over one particular struggle is achieved (or mostly achieved), there is usually the revelation of another particular struggle, or a deeper degree of the one already mastered. It tends to be a lifelong progression, but after a while tends to be something that is essentially internal, with external sins and passions already overcome - at least to one who is actively pursuing to become like Christ.

 

[bmjackson]

Jesus said on the cross ' it is finished' but men want to do it instead.

 

[timothyu]

It tends to be a lifelong progression, but after a while tends to be something that is essentially internal, with external sins and passions already overcome - at least to one who is actively pursuing to become like Christ.

How does all that simply put God's governance over mankind's in out hearts? Would not enlightenment in the wisdom of loving of all as self compared to man's opposing ways be enough to break a human mind free of the self serving ways of our animal nature? We all will struggle a lifetime to reject our self serving attitudes but is not the initial spark all that is required to open the door to the HS provided that seed has fallen on good soil and will not return to the world of man?

 

[Phil W]

There is no way until death to completely abandon the animal of our dual nature,

You are absolutely right.
I guess that is why Jesus said we would need to be born again if we wanted to see heaven. (John 3:3)
Fortunately God made a way to be reborn, but that entails the death of the old man and everything about him.
How?
By our crucifixion with Christ...accomplished at water baptism. (Rom 6:3-6)
It is written..."And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts. (Gal 5:24)
The old man can be killed, and a new creature gendered by the incorruptible seed of God can take it's place.
Thanks be to God!

but Jesus gave us the option of following the governance of God over the self serving governance of man. God asks for allegiance, not perfection. We chose the Kingdom while in the world but not of it, or we remain supportive of the adversarial world of man, in it and of it.

God does in deed ask for allegiance, but He also commanded perfection in Matt 5:48,..."Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect."
Peter tells us..."But as he which hath called you is holy, so be ye holy in all manner of conversation;
Because it is written, Be ye holy; for I am holy." (1 Peter 1:15-16)

 

[timothyu]

I guess that is why Jesus said we would need to be born again if we wanted to see heaven.

Yes, but our animal nature still exerts it's influence until death. It is our allegiance to the Kingdom of God over the fleshy governance of man that matters.

 

[timothyu]

God does in deed ask for allegiance, but He also commanded perfection in Matt 5:48,..."Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect."
Peter tells us..."But as he which hath called you is holy, so be ye holy in all manner of conversation;
Because it is written, Be ye holy; for I am holy." (1 Peter 1:15-16)

None of that states our animal nature disappears. We merely chose a selfless nature over the self serving, self justifying ways of man.

 

[~Anastasia~]

How does all that simply put God's governance over mankind's in out hearts? Would not enlightenment in the wisdom of loving of all as self compared to man's opposing ways be enough to break a human mind free of the self serving ways of our animal nature? We all will struggle a lifetime to reject our self serving attitudes but is not the initial spark all that is required to open the door to the HS provided that seed has fallen on good soil and will not return to the world of man?

Are you asking why it is necessary to practice any discipline and why isn't simply love for God or our passive response all that is needed? If not I might be misunderstanding your question.


All I can tell you is what St. Paul and the other early Christians taught, and that has been practiced by Christians through the ages as a result of their teaching. For one example, 1 Cor 9:27 but I discipline my body and make it my slave, so that, after I have preached to others, I myself will not be disqualified.

If St. Paul needed to practice spiritual disciplines and taught that to the Churches, shouldn't we expect to do the same?

And if that's not what you are asking, please forgive me if I misunderstand.

 

[Phil W]

Yes, but our animal nature still exerts it's influence until death. It is our allegiance to the Kingdom of God over the fleshy governance of man that matters.

You aren't believing what Paul wrote in Romans 6:3-6, ignoring the results listed in verse 7..."For he that is dead is freed from sin."
Those who have submitted themselves to God have no allegiances in this world but to God.
If not, then it is idolatry. Holding something above God.

New creatures are born of God's seed, and God's seed cannot bring forth evil fruit. (1 John 3:9)

 

[Phil W]

None of that states our animal nature disappears. We merely chose a selfless nature over the self serving, self justifying ways of man.

It is written..."Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new." (2 Cor 5:17)
Note the "old things are passed away"?
All things, including our old nature, are made new.
The old man and all his fleshly mindedness are gone. (Gal 5:24)
Only the memory of them can be used by the devil to tempt folks.

 

[timothyu]

For he that is dead is freed from sin."

Yes dead to the governance of man ahead of the governance of God for the governance of man is of the flesh.

 

[timothyu]

It is written..."Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new." (2 Cor 5:17)
Note the "old things are passed away"?
All things, including our old nature, are made new.
The old man and all his fleshly mindedness are gone. (Gal 5:24)

See my post above

 

[Phil W]

Yes dead to the governance of man ahead of the governance of God for the governance of man is of the flesh.

How did you get all that from..."He that is dead is freed from sin"?
The governance of the flesh is indeed what causes sin, but that flesh has been killed and has no power to do anything anymore.
Thanks be to God.

 

[Phil W]

See my post above

Does you 'counter culture of the kingdom' serve only one God?

 

[timothyu]

Does you 'counter culture of the kingdom' serve only one God?

Of course as Jesus was the leader of the counter-culture.

 

[~Anastasia~]

Flesh has no power other than what we give it. But the fact of the matter is ... unless they die very quickly, pretty much everyone goes on to sin after they are converted.

Anyone who claims otherwise generally has too limited an understanding of what "sin" is. It is not only murder and adultery and other gross sins (which of course should not be found among Christians and might even be avoided by moral non-Christians. But sin is any way in which we fall short of the perfection that is Christ.

We ought to move closer and closer to that perfection, becoming more Christlike. But the fact is, we do not "arrive" instantly upon conversion. There will be that flash of irritation which points to a root of pride (pride is one of the hardest to eradicate), or that moment our eye lingered with desire on a person (lust and adultery in the mind) or on an object (covetousness), or a failure to do what is perfectly loving for someone else instead doing something we want to do (self-centeredness) or any one of many other kinds of sins our own weaknesses predispose us to. And there will probably be MANY such sins for years to come, even if we properly struggle against the flesh.

There are many ways to discipline the flesh and strengthen the spirit. Fasting, especially, and prayer, reading Scripture, keeping discipline in any number of ways, and so on. We are told to continually crucify the flesh, and given many tools to do so.

 

[~Zao~]

One of the tools is to ‘reckon yourself dead to sin and alive to God’ because that is truly how the Father sees us in Christ. Every time that conscience reveals sin in our minds is an opportunity to take it to our Mediator. Every time we take it to Him He is faithful to forgive and we are once again as white as snow. Seventy times seven He forgives those sins, according to human understanding, so no matter how long it takes He is faithful as we are faithful. Soon it’ll start to become apparent that sins are disappearing from our lives because He has taken them from us as we have asked. We’ll notice that the thought comes but action doesn’t follow, and before we know it (literally) the thoughts of sin disappear too. But many are sins yet even so much time with the Lord has it’s way.
So far that just covered the basics of going to Him in prayer. There are so many other benefits to be derived from a closer walk with Him.

 

[timothyu]

There are so many other benefits to be derived from a closer walk with Him.

So much for political strife.

 

[~Zao~]

So much for political strife.

Huh?