Denominations

[Standing Up]

What are you even talking about. Presbyteros is Elder in Greek. How are they not the same?

No kidding. It is your religion that says Presbyteros means Priest, rather than elder. That is what you said. And as I said, you really agree with me (but don't realized it).

I never said the Eucharist changed. You're stating that. And as I said before, your lack of belief in the Holy Eucharist blinds you from possibilities of an actual Priesthood in the works in the NT Church.

You've got that reversed friend Kepha.

Reread your own words a sentence above in this post. Then consisider your next comment.

Here, I'll lay it out for you.

1) Presbyteros means elder.
2) Prsbyteros means Priest.
3) It changed meanings as the Eucharist changed meanings from thanksgiving to sacrifice.


3) Is my explanation (from history). But you agree too. But you just don't yet get it. Right? See? Hear?

Peace---

 

[ebia]

Culture helps but doesn't always tell you what a particular verse is teaching. You make it sound like it should be so simple...

Not at all - reading scripture is hard work and full of ambiguities, misundestanding and partial truths.

with the amount of people who take it up on themselves to use scripture away from Tradition, go in opposite directions when it comes to what they believe. And if something they find is implicit in the Bible, then hey, it's not at the top of their belief system and becomes a non essential. This is a poor assumption where they feel it has to be explicit to be important. We can debate this forever but you will never get me to lean toward sola Scripture since it doesn't work.

I'm not trying to get you take a Sola Scriptura worldview - simply to discuss what we can deduce about what Scripture itself actually says or does not say on the topic at hand. Clearly your final viewpoint on the topic of priesthood will be informed by more than that.

 

[Kepha]

No kidding. It is your religion that says Presbyteros means Priest, rather than elder. That is what you said. And as I said, you really agree with me (but don't realized it).




You've got that reversed friend Kepha.

Reread your own words a sentence above in this post. Then consisider your next comment.

Here, I'll lay it out for you.

1) Presbyteros means elder.
2) Prsbyteros means Priest.
3) It changed meanings as the Eucharist changed meanings from thanksgiving to sacrifice.


3) Is my explanation (from history). But you agree too. But you just don't yet get it. Right? See? Hear?

Peace---

Incorrect. I never once stated it changed meanings as the Eucharist changed meanings from thanksgiving to sacrifice. You added that to my words. I said the names eventually were fixed where they weren't so fluid in their use as it 'seems' was more the case in the NT.
Though that's still not entirely true even for today since all Bishops are Priests yet all Priests aren't necessarily Bishops showing us that this fluid use in terms can currently exist.
So in their true definitions, a Priest could be still considered a Deacon (servant or minister) of His Church except we just don't say that nowadays as it would add confusion. Even Paul called Himself a Deacon but we know He definitely had a higher office than those given to do that type of work which we call them nowadays or were called in the 2nd Century. Fixing names on them permanently doesn't negate the fact that these types of offices were present in the NT nor does it prove that the Eucharist was seen as a symbol then all of the sudden, became a Sacrifice.

 

[Standing Up]

Incorrect. I never once stated it changed meanings as the Eucharist changed meanings from thanksgiving to sacrifice. You added that to my words. I said the names eventually were fixed where they weren't so fluid in their use as it 'seems' was more the case in the NT.
Though that's still not entirely true even for today since all Bishops are Priests yet all Priests aren't necessarily Bishops showing us that this fluid use in terms can currently exist.
So in their true definitions, a Priest could be still considered a Deacon (servant or minister) of His Church except we just don't say that nowadays as it would add confusion. Even Paul called Himself a Deacon but we know He definitely had a higher office than those given to do that type of work which we call them nowadays or were called in the 2nd Century. Fixing names on them permanently doesn't negate the fact that these types of offices were present in the NT nor does it prove that the Eucharist was seen as a symbol then all of the sudden, became a Sacrifice.

I understand your POV.

Peace---out

 

[Standing Up]

I ran across this today, offering more meat to my bones---

The idea and institution of a special priesthood, distinct from the body of the people, with the accompanying notion of sacrifice and altar, passed imperceptibly from Jewish and heathen reminiscences and analogies into the Christian church. The majority of Jewish converts adhered tenaciously to the Mosaic institutions and rites, and a considerable part never fully attained to the height of spiritual freedom proclaimed by Paul, or soon fell away from it. He opposed legalistic and ceremonial tendencies in Galatia and Corinth; and although sacerdotalism does not appear among the errors of his Judaizing opponents, the Levitical priesthood, with its three ranks of high-priest, priest, and Levite, naturally furnished an analogy for the threefold ministry of bishop, priest, and deacon, and came to be regarded as typical of it. Still less could the Gentile Christians, as a body, at once emancipate themselves from their traditional notions of priesthood, altar, and sacrifice, on which their former religion was based. Whether we regard the change as an apostasy from a higher position attained, or as a reaction of old ideas never fully abandoned, the change is undeniable, and can be traced to the second century. The church could not long occupy the ideal height of the apostolic age, and as the Pentecostal illumination passed away with the death of the apostles, the old reminiscences began to reassert themselves.
History of the Christian Church, Volume II: Ante-Nicene Christianity. A.D. 100-325. | Christian Classics Ethereal Library

From scriptural elders and deacons to OT-like bishop, priest, deacon divisions, the office changed with the substitution of sacrifice for scriptural thanksgiving as Eucharist.

 

[Secundulus]

.

 

[simonthezealot]

I ran across this today, offering more meat to my bones---

The idea and institution of a special priesthood, distinct from the body of the people, with the accompanying notion of sacrifice and altar, passed imperceptibly from Jewish and heathen reminiscences and analogies into the Christian church. The majority of Jewish converts adhered tenaciously to the Mosaic institutions and rites, and a considerable part never fully attained to the height of spiritual freedom proclaimed by Paul, or soon fell away from it. He opposed legalistic and ceremonial tendencies in Galatia and Corinth; and although sacerdotalism does not appear among the errors of his Judaizing opponents, the Levitical priesthood, with its three ranks of high-priest, priest, and Levite, naturally furnished an analogy for the threefold ministry of bishop, priest, and deacon, and came to be regarded as typical of it. Still less could the Gentile Christians, as a body, at once emancipate themselves from their traditional notions of priesthood, altar, and sacrifice, on which their former religion was based. Whether we regard the change as an apostasy from a higher position attained, or as a reaction of old ideas never fully abandoned, the change is undeniable, and can be traced to the second century. The church could not long occupy the ideal height of the apostolic age, and as the Pentecostal illumination passed away with the death of the apostles, the old reminiscences began to reassert themselves.
History of the Christian Church, Volume II: Ante-Nicene Christianity. A.D. 100-325. | Christian Classics Ethereal Library

From scriptural elders and deacons to OT-like bishop, priest, deacon divisions, the office changed with the substitution of sacrifice for scriptural thanksgiving as Eucharist.

nice link, thanks.

 

[ticker]

Denominations

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!

-Satan