Denominations that teach that salvation is exclusive to them

Valletta · Jan 19, 2023

Muslims

MMXX said:
Unfortunately this, as one of many examples, is what the Latter Day Saints tell us about the Book of Mormon.

Muslims give all authority to the Quran. That's apparently where the idea for a religious book having all authority was picked up and became popular, there were two Christians, not theologians by today's standards, but they listened to an Arab theologian and popularized the idea among Christians.

ozso · Jan 19, 2023

Valletta said:
Muslims

Muslims give all authority to the Quran. That's apparently where the idea for a religious book having all authority was picked up and became popular, there were two Christians, not theologians by today's standards, but they listened to an Arab theologian and popularized the idea among Christians.

Ironic considering that like the Book of Mormon, the Quran is supposed to be an addendum to the Holy Scriptures. And another addendum that appeared hundreds of years later.

From an American perspective, 250 years is a really long period of time considering that's about how old America is. And by now the US Constitution and Bill of Rights etc has long been firmly established.

So it seems reasonable to me to conclude that by the three hundred or even as far as the four hundred year marker, the beliefs, teachings, practices, doctrine and theology of the Christian Chuch was fully established. And therefore major changes taking place 5, 6, 7, 8, 9 hundred years later are questionable.

concretecamper · Jan 19, 2023

BobRyan said:
Now see, that was not so hard.

It is never hard. God is simple. He established His Church as the means of salvation for all. You don't need to be educated (you can be illiterate for that matter), you don't need to be rich, you just have to follow Christ's example and be obedient by following His command to listen to the Church.

People complicate matters by mixing up issues (as we have seen in this thread).

FaithT · Jan 19, 2023

MMXX said:
Thank you for that direct clear unambiguous statement.

Regardless of what posters may insinuate here, Catholic Answers said it pretty succinctly too: Do Non-Catholic Christians Go to Heaven?

ozso · Jan 19, 2023

concretecamper said:
It is never hard. God is simple. He established His Church as the means of salvation for all. You don't need to be educated (you can be illiterate for that matter), you don't need to be rich, you just have to follow Christ's example and be obedient by following His command to listen to the Church.

People complicate matters by mixing up issues (as we have seen in this thread).

Just about every answer you give leads to another question.

Such as: "be obedient by following His command to listen to the Church".

A: Where is that command?

B: Is that supposed to mean Jesus commanded us to listen to the Roman Catholic Church specifically?

FaithT · Jan 19, 2023

MMXX said:
Just about every answer you give leads to another question.

Such as: "be obedient by following His command to listen to the Church".

A: Where is that command?

B: Is that supposed to mean Jesus commanded us to listen to the Roman Catholic Church specifically?

I know…..every time s/he answers a question we take a step backward. Just read my link. It’s from Catholic Answers so it’s factual.

BobRyan · Jan 19, 2023

concretecamper said:
It is never hard. God is simple. He established His Church as the means of salvation for all. You don't need to be educated (you can be illiterate for that matter), you don't need to be rich, you just have to follow Christ's example and be obedient by following His command to listen to the Church.

People complicate matters by mixing up issues (as we have seen in this thread).

So before Vatican II it USED to be that there was one consistent stand on the idea of outside the Catholic Church as in RCC there is no salvation - but since Vatican II - I think the policy is a bit more tolerant. Maybe that is where the confusion comes in.

ozso · Jan 19, 2023

FaithT said:
Regardless of what posters may insinuate here, Catholic Answers said it pretty succinctly too: Do Non-Catholic Christians Go to Heaven?

@RileyG said most Catholics aren't knowledgeable about their faith. #69

Which doesn't surprise me, but one would think when that's the case they'd refrain from publically giving misleading answers to questions about Roman Catholicism.

FaithT · Jan 19, 2023

MMXX said:
@RileyG said most Catholics aren't knowledgeable about their faith. #69

Which doesn't surprise me, but one would think when that's the case they'd refrain from publically giving misleading answers to questions about Roman Catholicism.

Yeah well, this is a message board so…….
and RileyG is right.

FaithT · Jan 19, 2023

BobRyan said:
So before Vatican II it USED to be that there was one consistent stand on the idea of outside the Catholic Church as in RCC there is no salvation - but since Vatican II - I think the policy is a bit more tolerant. Maybe that is where the confusion comes in.

Maybe. Some of the “rules” changed after Vatican II.

Valletta · Jan 19, 2023

MMXX said:
MMXX said:

@RileyG said most Catholics aren't knowledgeable about their faith. #69

Which doesn't surprise me, but one would think when that's the case they'd refrain from publically giving misleading answers to questions about Roman Catholicism.

Click to expand...

Most who identify as Catholics are not practicing their faith, I would think this applies to most Christians--Catholics or not. You keep throwing out accusations, try and hold a discussion without accusing those who answer you as giving "misleading answers" or any such negative descriptions. A link to the Catholic Church Catechism was provided, that goes into depth in answering so many of your questions. The Catholic Catechism represents all rites, including the Latin or Roman rite, I don't want to exclude others because of mistaken references on this forum. A great approach for you would be to take a quotation from the Catechism of the Catholic Church and then ask questions about that quotation.

ozso · Jan 19, 2023

FaithT said:
Maybe. Some of the “rules” changed after Vatican II.

There are also Roman Catholics who consider Vatican II to be invalid. I call them Old School Catholics.

concretecamper · Jan 19, 2023

BobRyan said:
So before Vatican II it USED to be that there was one consistent stand on the idea of outside the Catholic Church as in RCC there is no salvation - but since Vatican II - I think the policy is a bit more tolerant. Maybe that is where the confusion comes in.

No, it is the same teaching. Post VII the Church focuses more on eccumanism (that's the policy change you are talking about). But none of the teachings from Trent are put aside. The CCC doesn't focus on anathemas and such, so as a result you get people who misinterpret the CCC and arrive at strange ideas.

ozso · Jan 19, 2023

Most who identify as Catholics are not practicing their faith, I would think this applies to most Christians--Catholics or not. You keep throwing out accusations, try and hold a discussion without accusing those who answer you as giving "misleading answers" or any such negative descriptions. A link to the Catholic Church Catechism was provided, that goes into depth in answering so many of your questions. The Catholic Catechism represents all rites, including the Latin or Roman rite, I don't want to exclude others because of mistaken references on this forum. A great approach for you would be to take a quotation from the Catechism of the Catholic Church and then ask questions about that quotation.

@Valletta I expect people who choose to publicly speak for an organization which claims as much authority as the RCC does, which has clearly written doctrine, to realize they have an obligation to give out accurate information. I don't really think I should be put in the position of teaching them their own religion via the Catholic Church Catechism. I expect it to be the other way around.

"I tell you, on the day of judgment people will give account for every careless word they speak" Matthew 12:36

"Not many of you should become teachers, my brothers, for you know that we who teach will be judged with greater strictness." James 3:1

concretecamper · Jan 19, 2023

MMXX said:
Just about every answer you give leads to another question.

Such as: "be obedient by following His command to listen to the Church".

A: Where is that command?

B: Is that supposed to mean Jesus commanded us to listen to the Roman Catholic Church specifically?

Read Mat. 18: 11-20
Read Luke 10:16
Read 1 Tim 3:15

As far as is the Roman Catholic Church the Church Jesus is referring to? I believe yes. And history is on my side.

ozso · Jan 19, 2023

concretecamper said:
Read Mat. 18: 11-20
Read Luke 10:16
Read 1 Tim 3:15

As far as is the Roman Catholic Church the Church Jesus is referring to? I believe yes. And history is on my side.

Which indicates only Roman Catholic Christians are saved. But then you'll tell me that I'm not getting it right. Which indicates that a Christian doesn't have to be a Roman Catholic to be saved. But then you'll respond with something that once again indicates only Roman Catholic Christians are saved. A seesaw going back and forth.

concretecamper · Jan 19, 2023

MMXX said:
But then you'll respond with something that once again indicates only Roman Catholic Christians are saved

I have never said anything like this and I didn't post anything that would indicate this.

ozso · Jan 19, 2023

concretecamper said:
No, it is the same teaching. Post VII the Church focuses more on eccumanism (that's the policy change you are talking about). But none of the teachings from Trent are put aside. The CCC doesn't focus on anathemas and such, so as a result you get people who misinterpret the CCC and arrive at strange ideas.

So despite what @Valletta told me about reading the CCC to get correct answers, you're saying the CCC is subject to misinterpretation and I might arrive at strange ideas.

concretecamper · Jan 19, 2023

MMXX said:
So despite what @Valletta told me about reading the CCC to get correct answers, you're saying the CCC is subject to misinterpretation and I might arrive at strange ideas.

any document is subject to mis-interpretation, especially if you don't have a foundation on the subject matter. Do you find that odd?

ozso · Jan 19, 2023

concretecamper said:
I have never said anything like this and I didn't post anything that would indicate this.

Whether you realize it or not, or intend it or not, there's a lot of ambiguity in what you post.

Denominations that teach that salvation is exclusive to them

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