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What does "through no fault of his own" mean regarding those who are Eastern Orthodox and Protestant?
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What does "through no fault of his own" mean regarding those who are Eastern Orthodox and Protestant?To try to clear up some confusion in this topic, let's just note what the Catechism of the Catholic Church explicitly says on the subject (footnotes removed):
"Outside the Church there is no salvation"
846 How are we to understand this affirmation, often repeated by the Church Fathers? Re-formulated positively, it means that all salvation comes from Christ the Head through the Church which is his Body:
Basing itself on Scripture and Tradition, the Council teaches that the Church, a pilgrim now on earth, is necessary for salvation: the one Christ is the mediator and the way of salvation; he is present to us in his body which is the Church. He himself explicitly asserted the necessity of faith and Baptism, and thereby affirmed at the same time the necessity of the Church which men enter through Baptism as through a door. Hence they could not be saved who, knowing that the Catholic Church was founded as necessary by God through Christ, would refuse either to enter it or to remain in it.
847 This affirmation is not aimed at those who, through no fault of their own, do not know Christ and his Church:
Those who, through no fault of their own, do not know the Gospel of Christ or his Church, but who nevertheless seek God with a sincere heart, and, moved by grace, try in their actions to do his will as they know it through the dictates of their conscience - those too may achieve eternal salvation.
848 "Although in ways known to himself God can lead those who, through no fault of their own, are ignorant of the Gospel, to that faith without which it is impossible to please him, the Church still has the obligation and also the sacred right to evangelize all men."
Source: Catechism of the Catholic Church - PART 1 SECTION 2 CHAPTER 3 ARTICLE 9 PARAGRAPH 3
As there was discussion of pre- and post-Vatican II, here is a quote from the Catechism of Pius X (pre-Vatican II) which says essentially the same thing:
27 Q. Can one be saved outside the Catholic, Apostolic and Roman Church?
A. No, no one can be saved outside the Catholic, Apostolic Roman Church, just as no one could be saved from the flood outside the Ark of Noah, which was a figure of the Church.
28 Q. How, then, were the Patriarchs of old, the Prophets, and the other just men of the Old Testament, saved?
A. The just of the Old Testament were saved in virtue of the faith they had in Christ to come, by means of which they spiritually belonged to the Church.
29 Q. But if a man is outside the Church, can he be saved?
A. If he is outside the Church through no fault of his, that is, if he is in good faith, and if he has received Baptism, or at least has the implicit desire of Baptism; and if, moreover, he sincerely seeks the truth and does God's will as best he can such a man is indeed separated from the body of the Church, but is united to the soul of the Church and consequently is on the way of salvation
Source: Catechism of St. Pius X | EWTN
Meaning, they are not knowledgable of the RCC doctrine and practices. etcWhat does "through no fault of his own" mean regarding those who are Eastern Orthodox and Protestant?
I recall when I was a baptist, they'd say that without saying it, backpeddling a bit but not recanting either.Hello everyone,
I was just wondering- does anyone know of any denominations that teach that salvation is exclusive to their church? That is, teaching that they're denomination is the only one that will be saved. I've heard things about branches of Pentecostalism, but I was curious as to how many are out there that teach this.
Thanks for your time!
But most Eastern Orthodox and Protestants are knowledgeable to at least an extent. And isn't wilful ignorance also a factor? Wilful ignorance meaning learning RCC doctrine and practices is readily available, but Protestants choose not to learn, which makes them guilty and therefore condemned?Meaning, they are not knowledgeable of the RCC doctrine and practices. etc
Knowledgeable meaning knowing the truth, not just knowing about something.But most Eastern Orthodox and Protestants are knowledgeable to at least an extent. And isn't wilful ignorance also a factor? Wilful ignorance meaning learning RCC doctrine and practices is readily available, but Protestants choose not to learn, which makes them guilty and therefore condemned?
So I take it that would mean someone obtaining the same full realization and understanding of RCC doctrine and practices as a fully fledged Roman Catholic, and then rejecting it.Knowledgeable meaning knowing the truth, not just knowing about something.
To be fair, most Catholics aren't knowledgable about their faith.But most Eastern Orthodox and Protestants are knowledgeable to at least an extent. And isn't wilful ignorance also a factor? Wilful ignorance meaning learning RCC doctrine and practices is readily available, but Protestants choose not to learn, which makes them guilty and therefore condemned?
I'm asking what the Roman Catholic Church's official position is.To be fair, most Catholics aren't knowledgable about their faith.
I am not God. I cannot say who is condemned or not. period
Then I suppose ignorance might be bliss. The less you know about Purgatory the happier we will all be. In the nasty past a lot of Catholics certainly said they knew a great deal about Purgatory as well as Limbo.The purification spoken of in the Bible is what Catholics call purgatory. Catholics believe the Bible is the Word of God, so believe you me that purification exists although we know almost nothing about it.
"Nasty?" Please try to respect religions that may differ from your own. Theologians offer ideas of what may be from what we know of the Word of God. There simply is not a lot spelled out for exactly what Purgatory or Hell or when the end of the world may come or many other things mentioned in God's Word may be like. I am sure it is the same with your religion as well.Then I suppose ignorance might be bliss. The less you know about Purgatory the happier we will all be. In the nasty past a lot of Catholics certainly said they knew a great deal about Purgatory as well as Limbo.
I'm a Catholic, there is a Roman or Latin rite which is the most common rite and we should not exclude Catholics who use other liturgical rites. Catholics beliefs are common to all rites. If you know some or all of Christ's teachings and reject those teachings then you endanger your soul, Catholic or not.So I take it that would mean someone obtaining the same full realization and understanding of RCC doctrine and practices as a fully fledged Roman Catholic, and then rejecting it.
1. Trinitarian formulaWhat qualifies as a valid baptism?
so how do you get that out of this?So if one rejects the RCC they wont go to Heaven, correct?
1. Trinitarian formula
2. Water
3. The intention to do what the Church does
I was responding to the part on posts 58 and 59.so how do you get that out of this?
I was addressing a question regarding Baptism. If you have a question unrelated to Baptism, ask.
Agree with that part - your eternity depends on whether you submit to scripture, to the Word of God - or else setup your own "experience" as the judge of scripture ignoring it as it suits you. It is an important detail to consider.
Forgive me, you quoted post 75, I failed to realize you meant to ask about post 58 and 59.I was responding to the part on posts 58 and 59.
I am sure the Jews of Christ's day viewed it that way as well - but notice His solution to the problem in Mark 7There are no scriptures that are ignored, only multiple interpretations of the same scripture.
Regardless of what I think, the question is how do you know what you think is true?
And that is what you saw Christ saying in Mark 7.so far, I have only heard that you have to read and believe the Bible
I always consider my view to see if it is in error - after all I am not infallible. But the Bible is and the Holy Spirit is as wel. God tells us to use Christ's method.Do you ever consider that you might be wrong? If so, in what way?
I understand. But the Bible shows us how it is done so we follow that method. A method that resulted in millions of Jews and 100's of millions of gentiles, pagans etc - rejecting their own leaders - and choosing Christianity.This is not me preaching to you, I really want to know what you think
This is having a tendency to go back and forth, or at least it seems to.Forgive me, you quoted post 75, I failed to realize you meant to ask about post 58 and 59.
I don't think the Church judges the state of anyone's soul at the time of death. What She does say is that if you die in a state of mortal sin, it is an express elevator trip down. Now, separating from His Church is a schismatic act, you are in fact rejecting Christ, which is extremely serious. I'll let you complete the thought experiment.
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