I love how the nondenominational set adhears to the biblical command not to create divisions; They are as they are in the love of Christ.
Denominations are division arn't they?
- Thread starter Rick_Warrn
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There is a great difference between rejecting heresy and separating from it, and just starting a new sect to please self. Any new Christian fellowship today is probably a sect (maybe denom.), but God does have His testimony from the beginning as in Acts 2 and the Epistles without the innovations of men. I think I have found it in that revival of church truth in the early 1800's, but others may choose to think something else is true to the Word.
The important thing is that a scriptural fellowship must be in accord with the Word (not the Word++). It must also hold to expressing the truth of the "one body in Christ" universal, as God has given. I do not want to argue this, but will help one who is a sincere seeker.
- 1 Watchman
See www.biblecounsel.homestead.com
The important thing is that a scriptural fellowship must be in accord with the Word (not the Word++). It must also hold to expressing the truth of the "one body in Christ" universal, as God has given. I do not want to argue this, but will help one who is a sincere seeker.
- 1 Watchman
See www.biblecounsel.homestead.com
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Jerushabelle
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Mr. Warren...."THE" Rick Warren?
Uh, sir...in the love of Christ, I was just wondering what kind of division would be caused within the Body when one church, having received two million dollars for a cause requiring a fraction of that amount, ignored the plea of a very small country church for a donation from that overage so that little country church could have heat? Oh wait, the plea wasn't ignored. It was met with a request that the little country church send a donation to the two million dollar rich church. What division sir, do you think that created? Hmmm...
By the way, the temperature in the sanctuary of the small country church currently does not reflect at all on the wall registers. That means it's below 40 degrees...way below 40 degrees. Our small congregation will do what it did last Christmas. It will huddle around kerosene heaters with candles in hand singing praise to God...in spite of the divisive spirit. Sure hope no one needs to use the bathroom during service as the water is frozen in the toilet bowls!
Oh, not "THE" Rick Warren? I do beg your pardon!
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plmarquette
Veteran
denominations and vehicles....ford...chevy....chrysler....suzuki similar applications, similar function, different applications, of a similar truth...all trying to serve God in some manner great or small...
when we point a finger at one another, we are the "accuser of the brethren"...doing the work of the enemy...
as to the brother with an axe to grind...about money....if your church tithed, evangelized, and worked every day...should be able to pay the light, heating, water, and sewer bills...like many little churches, want God and grace but don't want to pay the pastor or the upkeep on the church....have not, cause you ask amiss...James 4.2-3
when we point a finger at one another, we are the "accuser of the brethren"...doing the work of the enemy...
as to the brother with an axe to grind...about money....if your church tithed, evangelized, and worked every day...should be able to pay the light, heating, water, and sewer bills...like many little churches, want God and grace but don't want to pay the pastor or the upkeep on the church....have not, cause you ask amiss...James 4.2-3
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That post didn't sit right wth my spirit, either but I didn't respond because I didn't want to get suspeded again. Christians in other Countrie have it a lot harder than that to get together and worship God.
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Jerushabelle
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Interesting response. Assumptive and wrong but I refuse to take offense.
Utilities are faithfully paid. The tithe is used for what God intended, helping those in need, and for a congregation of ten, we've done a bang-up job keeping two families under their roofs with their utilities paid. Our pastor works a full time job and refuses a salary for what God called him to so that others less fortunate might benefit from the tithes received. The church was established in 1832 and looks downright great having just had much of the siding replaced after last winter's ravaging. Gee, that came out of the insurance we maintain on the building. Unfortunately, insurance won't pay for upgrades. Our much repaired forty year old furnace gave up the ghost last fall. 110 electric must be converted to 220. These things are extremely expensive but "axe to grind...about money?"...you mistake. The axe was regarding division caused by the flagrant disregard of legitimate needs of Brothers and Sisters in the faith by their own. I am reminded of Matthew 7:9-12, "Which of you, if his son asks for bread, will give him a stone? Or if he asks for a fish, will give him a snake? If you, then, though you are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father in heaven give good gifts to those who ask him! So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets." And 1Corinthians 12:24-26, "...But God has combined the members of the body and has given greater honor to the parts that lacked it, so that there should be no division in the body, but that its parts should have equal concern for each other. If one part suffers, every part suffers with it; if one part is honored, every part rejoices with it."
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Jerushabelle
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I believe that was a response, Ro. Whether you choose to see it as one or not is somewhat moot, I suppose.
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Tithing is not taught by Jesus. Tithing is like a tax and Jesus taught GIVING not Tithing. Did Paul ask for tithes?
Mat 17:24 And when they were come to Capernaum, they that received tribute money came to Peter, and said, Doth not your master pay tribute? (OR THE TEMPLE TAX)
Mat 17:25 He saith, Yes. (PETER WAS NOT BEING TRUTHFUL) And when he was come into the house, Jesus prevented him, saying, What thinkest thou, Simon? of whom do the kings of the earth take custom or tribute? of their own children, or of strangers?
Mat 17:26 Peter saith unto him, Of strangers. Jesus saith unto him, Then are the children free.
Mat 17:27 Notwithstanding, lest we should offend them, go thou to the sea, and cast an hook, and take up the fish that first cometh up; and when thou hast opened his mouth, thou shalt find a piece of money: that take, and give unto them for me and thee.
Luk 11:42 But woe unto you, Pharisees! for ye tithe mint and rue and all manner of herbs, and pass over judgment and the love of God: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.
Mat 17:24 And when they were come to Capernaum, they that received tribute money came to Peter, and said, Doth not your master pay tribute? (OR THE TEMPLE TAX)
Mat 17:25 He saith, Yes. (PETER WAS NOT BEING TRUTHFUL) And when he was come into the house, Jesus prevented him, saying, What thinkest thou, Simon? of whom do the kings of the earth take custom or tribute? of their own children, or of strangers?
Mat 17:26 Peter saith unto him, Of strangers. Jesus saith unto him, Then are the children free.
Mat 17:27 Notwithstanding, lest we should offend them, go thou to the sea, and cast an hook, and take up the fish that first cometh up; and when thou hast opened his mouth, thou shalt find a piece of money: that take, and give unto them for me and thee.
Luk 11:42 But woe unto you, Pharisees! for ye tithe mint and rue and all manner of herbs, and pass over judgment and the love of God: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.
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Jerushabelle
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The tithe is the one thing by which we may test God.
"Bring the whole tithe into the storehouse, that there may be food in my house. 'Test me in this,' says the Lord Almighty, 'and see if I will not throw open the floodgates of heaven and pour out so much blessing that you will not have room enough for it." Malachi 3:10
Yes, Jesus taught giving. The giving of tithes comes from an attitude of the heart and does not always mean money but gifts of time or talent; gifts of love to edify the Body and thereby edify God.
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I agree with you Jerushabelle but preaching tithing is not what Jesus did. It was giving voluntarily not under law which Jesus proclaimed. Too many preach that they must tithe and they are financially abusing people with this fear. Paying your taxes is not a gift either. I'm not going after you individually or your individual situation but whenever tithing is brought up it makes me sad how so many get duped into this.
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Jerushabelle
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I understand what you are saying and I agree. Courtesy of our Lord and His sacrifice, we are not bound by the law of the tithe. We still may test God's promise to return to us what we give to Him. Our tithe of money, time or talent should be reflective of our thankful hearts and the work of the Holy Spirit in our lives. Sadly, you're right in saying that there are many who wrongly preach on this and who strongarm their congregants into giving. I have no doubt there will be a price to pay for this behavior.
As far as paying taxes goes, well, you already know we are to render to Caesar and while we may not think that paying taxes is a gift, the IRS sure does! LOL...The sad, erroneous thought process being that if someone, somewhere considers it a gift, then it must be, right? Of course right! Oy!
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As to Rick Warren's CELEBRATE RECOVERY programs, I think they are more humanistic than spiritual.
I know someone who has fathfully followed this program and although this person 'celebrates' 4 years of recovery today from alcohol addiction, still has an alcoholic personality and was a much better person drinking than being 'Christlike' now. So his "mega Church" is just another cult, as far as I am concerned. JMO.
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Jerushabelle
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I don't recall Mr. Warren's "Celebrate Recovery" programs being mentioned afore to this, however the "someone" you know has much to thank the program for if they have indeed been freed of their addiction. Mr. Warren can not be blamed for the person's behavior either before or after the alcohol. Any pastor's preaching can be askew. As Christians the responsibility for the quality of our walk with Christ lies in ourselves and our willingness to study scripture and be open to the leading of the Holy Spirit. We each have the ability to choose the type of behavior we exhibit and the "WORD" that we follow although a pastor's leadership is heavily scrutinized by the Father.
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