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Denomination Daze

xeegh

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Is God a fool?

There are 33,000 different denominations of Christianity, and 33,000 different interpretations of scripture. And every one of them thinks they have the keys to heaven.

Can a house divided against itself stand? And, if the "church" is the body of Christ, what is to be said for 33,000 different factions that mercilessly tear it apart?

These inconsistencies not only impede the Church's mission on earth, but leaves all walks of faithful - and by extension, God - vulnerable to derision and mockery.

Unification may be the most important tasks facing Christians. How can people be converted if they don't even know what to believe?

What can be done?
 

laconicstudent

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Is God a fool?

There are 33,000 different denominations of Christianity, and 33,000 different interpretations of scripture. And every one of them thinks they have the keys to heaven.

Can a house divided against itself stand? And, if the "church" is the body of Christ, what is to be said for 33,000 different factions that mercilessly tear it apart?

These inconsistencies not only impede the Church's mission on earth, but leaves all walks of faithful - and by extension, God - vulnerable to derision and mockery.

Unification may be the most important tasks facing Christians. How can people be converted if they don't even know what to believe?

What can be done?

You've made a good argument against ecumenism. God might be insane if he allowed the Church to turn into thousands of competing factions, but I believe that the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church is there, though some might deride it as "just another denomination".
 
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Big Drew

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There may be 33,000 denominations...but, when you look at the things that most of us disagree on, they are petty, to God, IMO...

Baptism...Infant or Believer
Communion...transubstantiation or symbolic or somewhere in between
Sanctification...entire or progressive
Does man play a part in his salvation?
Should we still follow the OT Law?
Are the gifts of the Holy Spirit still available today?
OSAS or can we fall away?

These, and maybe a few others, are the things that separate us...I'm not saying these things aren't important...but the most important thing is that one believes the Gospel, is born again, and doing their best to live a Christian life...all the rest of these will work out in the end. Having said that, I would feel uncomfortable in a church that believed the opposite of what I do on many of these issues, and I'm sure the rest of us here would as well...there aren't many of us that can be happy to agree to disagree...aside from that, there's been division since the beginning of the Church...I don't see that changing until we're seeing our Savior face to face...but, maybe that's just me...
 
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Dispy

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Is God a fool?

There are 33,000 different denominations of Christianity, and 33,000 different interpretations of scripture. And every one of them thinks they have the keys to heaven.

Can a house divided against itself stand? And, if the "church" is the body of Christ, what is to be said for 33,000 different factions that mercilessly tear it apart?

These inconsistencies not only impede the Church's mission on earth, but leaves all walks of faithful - and by extension, God - vulnerable to derision and mockery.

Unification may be the most important tasks facing Christians. How can people be converted if they don't even know what to believe?

What can be done?

Good Question. No, God is not a fool, man made denominations are foolish.

Galatians 1:8 "But though we or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you then that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
9 As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed."

Who are these Galatians? They are barbarians? Guals who were saved under the preaching of "The Gospel of the Grace of God", but were being influenced by the Judaizers to keep the deed/works of the Law.

Doing the deeds/works of the Law were required during the preaching of "The Gospel of the Kingdom" that Jesus and the 12 preached. One only has to go back to Matt. 5, 6, and 7 to find out who would be the least or greatest in that kingdom (5:19). That kingdom is to be established in the earth, and Jesus taught His disciples to pray for that kingdom to come (cf. Matt. 6:10).

Those saved under the preaching of "The Gospel of the Grace of God", i.e. "...the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began" (Rom. 16:25). Believers saved under this preaching are a new creation , i.e. "the one new man" of Eph. 2:15. All believers saved under this program are known as: Members of the Church, the Body of Christ". We members of this Church have a heavenly home to look forward to (cf. 2 Cor. 5:1, Philippians 3:20). We have no place in the earthly kingdom that was promised to those of Israel.

Now to get to the reason we have so many denominations, "the doctrine of men," today.

We have two primary doctrines mentioned in our Bible. We have the doctrine of "Law, which were the instructions in righteousness to the children of Israel. It was given by God through Moses.

We have the doctrine of "Grace," for members of the Church, the Body of Christ." That is "the mystery" revealed to the Apostle Paul, by Jesus Christ, from His position in heaven.

Denominationalists today mix these two doctrines as "one and the same" Gospel. Mixing the doctrine of Law and Grace as one, only leads to confusion and denominationalism. Each denomination has its one formula (receipt) as to how to mix them. They then feed their congregations the "omlet" (scrambled egg doctrine) doctrine to their liking.

Eggs once scrambled cannot be unscrambled, but Paul gospel can unscramble a scrambled egg doctrine.

I do believe that Paul is speaking of "the gospel of the Kingdom", which is not to be preached today as we are not to look for a kingom here on earth. However, Paul says that "...all Scripture is for our learning" (cf. Rm. 15:4). By studying all the scriptures we have God eternal plan, and we will know everything that God wants us to know. All the Bible is TO US, but not FOR US.What is written to Israel is for Israel, and what is written to members of the Church, the Body of Christ is for believers today.

Hope this is helpfull.
 
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perrfekt

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Is God a fool?

There are 33,000 different denominations of Christianity, and 33,000 different interpretations of scripture. And every one of them thinks they have the keys to heaven.

Can a house divided against itself stand? And, if the "church" is the body of Christ, what is to be said for 33,000 different factions that mercilessly tear it apart?

These inconsistencies not only impede the Church's mission on earth, but leaves all walks of faithful - and by extension, God - vulnerable to derision and mockery.

Unification may be the most important tasks facing Christians. How can people be converted if they don't even know what to believe?

What can be done?


in no way is God a fool. there are analogies like the ice cream analogy and whatnot. all of its ice cream, but different flavors.

the difference of denomination is when a group of believers generally take whats commonly a single scripture and base traditions off of it. the body of Christ has many different parts. and as humans, we do not understand the entirety of scripture as God does. some divisions within the church are valid and do seperate to an extent. in scripture baptism is blatantly referenced as an act of the believer, hence baptizing an infant is not what Christ commanded. however, a minor difference such as full immersion is simply not worth battling over.

the christian faith is predicated on a set of core doctrines required for the faith. salvation by grace alone, FOLLOWED by works as an outward sign and result of salvation, not a part of the salvation. also the nature of God as a spirit, triune in nature, which is important as that is who our faith is placed in. and finally the indwelling of the holy spirit, which brings us into relation to God. so long as the body of believers holds to these tenents, almost everything else doesn't matter. but to discount scripture because one does not like it, i do seriously question that in the salvation arena, but we are not the judges of mens souls.

as far as whether salvation is progressive or instant, both. not all men come to know God all at once. its like a seed, sometimes it takes time for understanding to grow for a man to realize his depravity and need for a savior. but there is always a definite point of conversion, where the miraculous happens when the Spirit of God for the first time indwells a man. it is simply a matter of the length of time for that to happen once a person begins to seek God. one man may hear the gospel and rejoice and accept what has been given him, another may have to experience a breaking point to understand and accept it.

at the very bottom of it, way down deep, the entire foundation of salvation is understanding and accepting one thing. That Jesus is the son of God, who bore the punishment of sin for us, and that believing in him, we may have eternal life. everything else you can rely upon the Holy Spirit to lead you to truth.
 
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xeegh

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It just seems to me as though God would want his people to worship him in a prescribed matter, i.e., one church is the most legitimate above others.

I recently became serious about my faith. This was a difficult concept to wrestle with, and it makes Christians look bad.

Ultimately, I decided on the Catholic church, because it seems to me as though the ancient apostles had supreme authority over the church, and the Catholic Chruch is the inheritor of that authority.

I do not wish to bash someone who has different theology than I. At the end, faith and love count above all else. But the infighting amongst denominations causes me great distress. Catholics, in general, look down upon protestants, and my protestant friends think the catholic church is an amalgam of idolotrous heretics.
 
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Dispy

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It just seems to me as though God would want his people to worship him in a prescribed matter, i.e., one church is the most legitimate above others.

I recently became serious about my faith. This was a difficult concept to wrestle with, and it makes Christians look bad.

Ultimately, I decided on the Catholic church, because it seems to me as though the ancient apostles had supreme authority over the church, and the Catholic Chruch is the inheritor of that authority.

I do not wish to bash someone who has different theology than I. At the end, faith and love count above all else. But the infighting amongst denominations causes me great distress. Catholics, in general, look down upon protestants, and my protestant friends think the catholic church is an amalgam of idolotrous heretics.

It appears to me that you perfer "the doctrine of me" over what the Bible teaches.

Christ is the head of the Church, not a mortal man who dictates to ist subserviants.
 
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xeegh

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I'm afraid I don't understand the "concept of me". And the bible, by the way, can say whatever you want it to.

It's interesting that there is scriptural support for both sides of most theological debates. People form the Bible around whatever is most comfortable to them.

That is why its seems logical that God would establish a definitive hierarchy for spiritual leadership. I don't think He would just dump the Bible on the unsuspecting masses and say "alright, it means whatever you want it to, I don't care."
 
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Hairy Tic

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Is God a fool?

There are 33,000 different denominations of Christianity, and 33,000 different interpretations of scripture. And every one of them thinks they have the keys to heaven.

Can a house divided against itself stand? And, if the "church" is the body of Christ, what is to be said for 33,000 different factions that mercilessly tear it apart?

These inconsistencies not only impede the Church's mission on earth, but leaves all walks of faithful - and by extension, God - vulnerable to derision and mockery.

Unification may be the most important tasks facing Christians. How can people be converted if they don't even know what to believe?

What can be done?
## Absolutely :( The problem is much simplified if all the Protestant-type sects, from the Waldensians in 1170 onwards, are ignored.

This narrows the choice to all & only the bodies existing before then, & excludes all sects coming from them. The Nestorians would be in, the Skoptsy be out - as would the Waldensians, Moravian Brethren, Lutherans, Familists, Shakers, Two-Seed-in-the-Spirit Baptists, Wesleyans, Fundamentalists, KJVOnly-ists, Oneness Pentecostals, & many many more (including all semi-Catholic sects)

If something modern or pre-16th-century can be called an heretical sect - why can't Lutheranism be called an heretical sect, & all other "mainsteam Christian Churches" born of the errors of Luther & his fellow-schismatics ? If only harsh words do for speaking the truth, then so be it - there is no good in polite insincerities: the difference between the JWs, the followers of Jim Jones, Moonies, Oneness Pentecostals, & Lutherans is one of degree only. In matters of faith, one heresy is as fatal as a hundred.

No doubt some Methodists are delightful people - so what ? So are many Muslims. If Muslims are not Christians for being nice, why should any other non-Catholic be regarded as Christian ?

The Church looks disunited only because sects & heresies have, for no good reason whatever, been regarded as Christian. This is an unprincipled, & so, an inconsistent & incoherent, piece of nonsense. The only Church in existence is that which is united to the Pope of Rome. Protestantism is a chaos of competing Babel-voices, one body rejecting as error what another insists is true. It was founded on a principle of rebellion against the authoritry of Christ, so it cannot possibly recover from this contradiction. Appealing to the sins of Catholics, no matter how enormous they may be, cannot cure the contradiction in which Protestantism came to birth.
 
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xeegh

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##



"No doubt some Methodists are delightful people - so what ? So are many Muslims. If Muslims are not Christians for being nice, why should any other non-Catholic be regarded as Christian ?"


One should be careful when drawing up a definition of "Christian". Yes, I believe that the Catholic Church is the most legitimate, but anyone who has love for Christ and keeps his commandments is considered clean in God's eyes.

On the last day, we're going to be surprised who makes it through those gates.

One thing I do like about other Churches I've been to - non-denominational and presbyterian - is a strong emotional emphasis. There is much celebration and enthusiasm, where as Mass is more somber and restrained. I understand why this is: I've grown to appreciate the more disciplined, orderly, and reflective take on worship.

Still - I am young, so maybe I can gain a little perspective - it truly bothers me that 33,000 different denominations, with mutally exclusive theology, can all claim to be led by the Holy Spirit. If a heretic and schismatic feels certain in his conscience that he is correct, than what does that say about my convictions? I'm not certain about anything.
 
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xeegh

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people can be convinced that murder is ok. emotions are unreliable. and the catholic church doctrine does not recognize grace as the sole requirement for salvation. its grace plus penance plus eucarist plus confirmation plus confession in the catholic church doctrine.

Yes, it does. Those sacraments you've mentioned are just different ways to receive grace.

Be that as it may, I did not intend this to devolve into yet another Catholic/Protestant match off. We could go back and forth ad infinitum until the trumpets blare. All I can say is that there is a wide misunderstanding of Catholic doctrine.
 
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barryrob

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Is God a fool?

There are 33,000 different denominations of Christianity, and 33,000 different interpretations of scripture. And every one of them thinks they have the keys to heaven.

Can a house divided against itself stand? And, if the "church" is the body of Christ, what is to be said for 33,000 different factions that mercilessly tear it apart?

These inconsistencies not only impede the Church's mission on earth, but leaves all walks of faithful - and by extension, God - vulnerable to derision and mockery.

Unification may be the most important tasks facing Christians. How can people be converted if they don't even know what to believe?

What can be done?

Follow what the Bible says and not any kind of traditions etc..
 
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barryrob

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Dear Barryrob, It is impossible to follow what "the Bible says" without also interpreting the Bible according to some kind of certain Christian tradition. If one's traditions are even Christian, they will agree fully with what the Bible does say. Otherwise, one follows private traditions and interpretations and the "traditions of men" Christ and the Bible warn against. If one's tradition is non-Christian, of course one will misinterpret the Bible. But there is a lot of common ground between traditional Christians. Most are either Eastern Orthodox, Roman Catholic, Evangelical Protestant (Trinitarian), or Oriental Orthodox, or Old Catholic. Unitarians and Seventh-Day Adventists, as well as Mormons, Jehovah's Witnesses, etc. should not even be considered biblical believers in Christ. In Erie PA USA Scott Harrington

With regards to traditions Jesus Christ said:-

Matthew 15:6-9
...So YOU have made the word of God invalid because of YOUR tradition. 7 YOU hypocrites, Isaiah aptly prophesied about YOU, when he said, 8 ‘This people honors me with their lips, yet their heart is far removed from me. 9 It is in vain that they keep worshiping me, because they teach commands of men as doctrines.’"

So when 'traditions' are not in The Bible such as the trinity, hellfire, immortal soul etc. then they are not from God but human ideas and thus need to be rejected as Godless!
 
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xeegh

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so is what i said incorrect?

The Church does place equal authority on apostolic succession and scripture, which lies at the center of most debates.

But I don't have a problem with that. This is my problem, the thing that keeps me up at nights:

Many denominations label homosexual activity sinful, where as others find it acceptable - going back the original Greek text and deciding that Paul was only condemning male shrine prostitutes, etc. Both claim to be lead by the Holy Spirit.

I'm Catholic, because their intrepretation of scripture - their understanding of God and grace - has been passed down since the time of the apostles, before there was any Holy Scripture to consult.
 
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perrfekt

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you are assuming that the catholic church was indeed led by the apostles. constantine formed the catholic church, and with it incorporated current manners of worship to a sun god, and this all happened after the apostles were long dead.

the early church, if you read in acts, was at the begining a singular body of believers, but being as that was not Gods intent (go forth into all the world) different events and persecutions happened to drive the church far and wide. the church is not an institution, but the body of believers. there is no priest, only the high priest who is Jesus himself. all believers are saints. and there is not authoritative head of the church here on the earth, only the word of God and the indwelling of the Holy Spirit.

the debate of homosexual activity is nonsense. yes, the act of sex with a person of the same gender is a sin, and is referred to as debased. but sex outside of marriage is a sin, pornography (lust), hatred, lying, theft, dishonoring God, blaspheming, unforgiveness, etc. the point is not which on this list are you guilty of, because to violate just a single part of the law once, is to violate the entire law (scrip reference i cannot remember atm). what matters is the belief in Christ, and in his death and resurrection. after that, the spirit of God that now lives inside can guide you in truth.

those who fight against the scriptures blatantly because either they don't like or do not understand it, probably aren't christians in the first place. just somebody wanting a religion they like so long as they can pick and choose from the text, and those types of people tend to congregate together.
 
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barryrob

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The Church does place equal authority on apostolic succession and scripture, which lies at the center of most debates.

But I don't have a problem with that. This is my problem, the thing that keeps me up at nights:

Many denominations label homosexual activity sinful, where as others find it acceptable - going back the original Greek text and deciding that Paul was only condemning male shrine prostitutes, etc. Both claim to be lead by the Holy Spirit.
I think you need to do a lot more study on this matter:-


From Compton's Interactive Bible N.I.V. COMMENTARY


HOMOSEXUAL Sexual activity between members of the same sex is universally condemned in Scripture. Male homosexuality forbidden by law and punished by death (Lev 18:22; 20:13). Male and female homosexuality condemned (Ro 1:26). With other sexually immoral persons excluded from the kingdom of God (1Co 6:9-11). Male shrine prostitution was practiced even in the temple (1Ki 14:24; 15:12; 2Ki 23:7). Male prostitutes also translates the derogatory term "dog" (Dt 23:17-18; possibly Rev 22:15). See Dog. Instances of: the men of Sodom (Ge 19:4-5; Jude 7) and Gibeah (Jdg 19:22).

2 Pet. 2:10 This is especially true. The heretics of Peter's day are certain to come under judgment for two main reasons: 1. They follow the corrupt desire of the sinful nature, perhaps referring to homosexuality, the sin of the Sodomites (see Ge 19:5). At least the author has in mind a similar inordinate sexual practice. 2. They despise authority. slander celestial beings. A specific example of despising authority. This could refer to the slander of earthly dignitaries such as church leaders, which might well be expected from such shameless peddlers of error. On the other hand, it could refer to the blaspheming of angels, as the NIV text suggests. This view seems more likely since the parallel passage in Jude 8-10 is speaking of angels.

Jude 7 In a similar way. Does not mean that the sin of Sodom and Gomorrah was the same as that of the angels or vice versa. This phrase is used to introduce the third illustration of the fact that God will see to it that the unrighteous will be consigned to eternal punishment on judgment day. sexual immorality and perversion. More specifically, homosexuality (see Ge 19:5 and note; see also note on 2Pe 2:10). serve as an example of . . . punishment of eternal fire. God destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah by pouring out "burning sulfur" (Ge 19:24)--a foretaste of the eternal fire that is to come.

Jude 8 dreamers. The godless men were called "dreamers" either (1) because they claimed to receive revelations or, more likely, (2) because in their passion they were out of touch with truth and reality. pollute their own bodies. Probably a reference to the homosexuality in Sodom and Gomorrah (see vv. 4,7; 1Co 6:18). reject authority. See note on 2Pe 2:10. slander celestial beings. See note on 2Pe 2:10.

Deut 22:5 Probably intended to prohibit such perversions as transvestism and homosexuality, especially under religious auspices. The God-created differences between men and women are not to be disregarded (see Lev 18:22; 20:13).

Judges 19:22 wicked men. The Hebrew for this expression refers to the morally depraved (see note on Dt 13:13). Elsewhere the expression is associated with idolatry (Dt 13:13), drunkenness (1Sa 1:16) and rebellion (1Sa 2:12). Here the reference is to homosexuality. Bring out the man. The sexual perversion of these wicked men is yet another example of the decadence of an age when "everyone did as he saw fit" (17:6; 21:25). A similar request was made by the men of Sodom (Ge 19:5). Homosexua lity was common among the Canaanites.


N.I.V. 1 Timothy 1:8-10


“We know that the law is good if one uses it properly. 9We also know that law is made not for the righteous but for lawbreakers and rebels, the ungodly and sinful, the unholy and irreligious; for those who kill their fathers or mothers, for murderers, 10 for adulterers and perverts, for slave traders and liars and perjurers--and for whatever else is contrary to the sound doctrine.”

Others read 1 Tim 1:10 from e-Sword
(ASV) for fornicators, for abusers of themselves with men, for menstealers, for liars, for false swearers, and if there be any other thing contrary to the sound doctrine;
(BBE) For those who go after loose women, for those with unnatural desires, for those who take men prisoners, who make false statements and false oaths, and those who do any other things against the right teaching,
(Bishops) To whoremongers, to them that defyle them selues with mankynde, to manstealers, to lyers, to periured, and yf there be any other thyng that is contrarie to wholsome doctrine:
(CEV) The Law was written for people who are sexual perverts or who live as homosexuals or are kidnappers or liars or won't tell the truth in court. It is for anything else that opposes the correct teaching
(Darby) fornicators, sodomites, kidnappers, liars, perjurers; and if any other thing is opposed to sound teaching,
(DRB) For fornicators, for them who defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and whatever other thing is contrary to sound doctrine:
(EMTV) for fornicators, for sodomites, for kidnappers, for liars, for perjurers, and if there is any other thing that is opposed to sound doctrine,
(ESV) the sexually immoral, men who practice homosexuality, enslavers, liars, perjurers, and whatever else is contrary to sound doctrine,
(Geneva)To whoremongers, to buggerers, to menstealers, to lyers, to the periured, and if there be any other thing, that is contrary to wholesome doctrine,
(GNB) for the immoral, for sexual perverts, for kidnappers, for those who lie and give false testimony or who do anything else contrary to sound doctrine.
(GW) Laws are intended for people involved in sexual sins, for homosexuals, for kidnappers, for liars, for those who lie when they take an oath, and for whatever else is against accurate teachings.
(ISV) for those involved in sexual immorality, for homosexuals, for kidnappers, for liars, for false witnesses, and for whatever else goes against the healthy teaching
(KJV) For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;
(LITV)for fornicators, for homosexuals, for slave-traders, for liars, for perjurers, and if any other thing opposes sound doctrine,
(MKJV) for fornicators, for homosexuals, for slave-traders, for liars, for perjurers, and anything else that is contrary to sound doctrine,
(Murdock) and for whoremongers, and for copulators with males, and for the stealers of free people, and for liars, and for violators of oaths, and for whatever is contrary to sound doctrine,
(NSB)It is for fornicators, for abusers of themselves with men, for kidnappers, for liars, for perjurers, and everything else that is contrary to the sound teaching.
(RV)for fornicators, for abusers of themselves with men, for menstealers, for liars, for false swearers, and if there be any other thing contrary to the sound doctrine;
(Webster)For lewd persons, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for men-stealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there is any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine,
(WNT) fornicators, sodomites, slave-dealers, liars and false witnesses; and for whatever else is opposed to wholesome teaching
(YLT)whoremongers, sodomites, men-stealers, liars, perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that to sound doctrine is adverse,

[1]Excerpted from Compton's Interactive Bible NIV. Copyright (c) 1994, 1995, 1996 SoftKey Multimedia Inc. All Rights Reserved

[2]Excerpted from Compton's Interactive Bible NIV. Copyright (c) 1994, 1995, 1996 SoftKey Multimedia Inc. All Rights Reserved

[3]Excerpted from Compton's Interactive Bible NIV. Copyright (c) 1994, 1995, 1996 SoftKey Multimedia Inc. All Rights Reserved

[4]Excerpted from Compton's Interactive Bible NIV. Copyright (c) 1994, 1995, 1996 SoftKey Multimedia Inc. All Rights Reserved

[5]Excerpted from Compton's Interactive Bible NIV. Copyright (c) 1994, 1995, 1996 SoftKey Multimedia Inc. All Rights Reserved
 
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laconicstudent

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there is no priest, only the high priest who is Jesus himself. all believers are saints. and there is not authoritative head of the church here on the earth, only the word of God and the indwelling of the Holy Spirit.

Hm.

"As therefore the Lord did nothing without the Father, being united to Him, neither by Himself nor by the apostles, so neither do anything without the bishop and presbyters. Neither endeavour that anything appear reasonable and proper to yourselves apart; but being come together into the same place, let there be one prayer, one supplication, one mind, one hope, in love and in joy undefiled. There is one Jesus Christ, than whom nothing is more excellent. Therefore run together as into one temple of God, as to one altar, as to one Jesus Christ, who came forth from one Father, and is with and has gone to one."

--St. Ignatius of Antioch, Epistle to the Magnesians, ~100 A.D.
 
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xeegh

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@ barryrob and perfeckt

You both fundamentaly misunderstood my point. I am not trying to say that homosexuality is not sinful. I am saying that two churches with mutally exclusive theology both claim to be led by the Holy Spirit, an impossibility.

How do YOU know your church, theology, etc. is the favored? you say, "let your heart guide you." but your brothers are being led to different conclusions. How, then, can you have any faith in your own convictions?

It is useless to debate. All that I can say is, believers should be constantly questioning what they believe, and if it makes sense. Whoever thinks they have arrived at conclusive knowledge is dangerously deluded. Corn does not decide when it is just shoots from the soil that its growth is sufficient. It continues to grow, until the day it is harvested.
 
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