Dems want a ‘democracy’ where the majority lords it over everyone else.

[Adam56]

Dems want a ‘democracy’ where the majority lords it over everyone else

CNN recruited “democracy” expert Anne Applebaum, who noted that, “America is a democracy. It was founded as a democracy.”

nypost.com

There is, “of course,” zero “legitimate debate discussion” to be had over whether we are a “direct democracy.”

Not today, nor ever.

“Democracy” isn’t even mentioned anywhere in any founding document, much less a direct one.

None of the framers entertained any notions about majoritarianism or federal power that would even loosely comport the ones now embraced by the Left.

 

[Vambram]

Somehow, I wouldn't be surprised if those facts were not taught in liberal public schools.

 

[iluvatar5150]

From the article:

Those who want a few big states ruling the nation via a direct federal democracy

This is such a smoothbrained take on the electoral college. The popular vote doesn’t give a huge advantage to big states; in fact, today it does just the opposite. In 2020, Trump got 6 million votes in California- more than any other single state, and more than the 15 smallest states combined. And all of those electoral votes went to Biden because the Dems won the majority in CA.

The logic behind the electoral college only holds true if the voters in a state vote as nearly a monolith and if the population disparity between states is only modest. If either one of those is not true, the electoral college silences minority-party voters.

 

[essentialsaltes]

...Let me laugh even louder.

 

[essentialsaltes]

Gops want a 'republic' where large open spaces of the great plains lord it over everyone else.

 

[keith99]

From the article:



This is such a smoothbrained take on the electoral college. The popular vote doesn’t give a huge advantage to big states; in fact, today it does just the opposite. In 2020, Trump got 6 million votes in California- more than any other single state, and more than the 15 smallest states combined. And all of those electoral votes went to Biden because the Dems won the majority in CA.

The logic behind the electoral college only holds true if the voters in a state vote as nearly a monolith and if the population disparity between states is only modest. If either one of those is not true, the electoral college silences minority-party voters.

Quite the opposite. Biden got over 11 million votes in California. What the electoral college made a close race was a landslide according to popular vote. The electoral college has always given small states disproportionate influence. Those little states with 3 electoral college votes result in each voter being grossly overrepresented.

Wyoming has a population of 581 thousand and has 3 votes. One for every 194 thousand people.
California has a population of 38.9 million and has just 54 votes, one for each 720 thousand people.

So each voter in Wyoming has their vote count over 3 1/2 times as much as each vote in California.

 

[A2SG]

Why do I get the feeling that, if Trump wins the popular vote in 2024, but not the electoral vote, this position will be reversed?

Today's GOP isn't about the difference between a republic and a democracy, nor is it about protections against mob rule. It's about Trump, all day, every day, and nothing but.

-- A2SG, just ask Trump.....

 

[iluvatar5150]

Quite the opposite. Biden got over 11 million votes in California. What the electoral college made a close race was a landslide according to popular vote.

You have that backwards, the EC margin in 2020 was significantly larger than the popular vote margin.

In 2020, Biden had 51.3% of the popular vote to Trump’s 46.9%, for a margin of about 9.4% over Trump. The EV tallies, OTOH, were 306-232. That’s a margin of 31.9%.

The electoral college has always given small states disproportionate influence. Those little states with 3 electoral college votes result in each voter being grossly overrepresented.

Wyoming has a population of 581 thousand and has 3 votes. One for every 194 thousand people.
California has a population of 38.9 million and has just 54 votes, one for each 720 thousand people.

Yes, smaller states wield disproportionate influence, but the big states are so much larger that it doesn’t matter. Like I said, Trump got more votes in California than in his smallest 15 states combined (almost 16). California’s EV total is more than Trump got in his 14 smallest states combined.

If small states mattered as much as EC proponents thought they did, the candidates would spend a lot of energy there - but they don’t. They spend their resources in the handful of big swing states where a small increase in votes can yield a large increase in electors.

 

[Pommer]

What?
A minority is worried about how they’ll be treated by the majority!?
They’ll be treated with the same respect and dignity that the Majority always extends to the minority.

 

[Pommer]

In 2020, Biden had 51.3% of the popular vote to Trump’s 46.9%, for a margin of about 9.4% over Trump. The EV tallies, OTOH, were 306-232. That’s a margin of 31.9%.

I seem to recall that the 306-232 was the EC result in the 2016 contest, too.

 

[The IbanezerScrooge]

Land doesn't vote.

 

[SimplyMe]

This is a poorly written editorial, using weird fringe cases (so is Appelbaum getting airtime on CNN a concern, the same company that gave Kayley McEnany airtime for Trump in 2016, what bias does that allegedly prove?) to try to build a case.

I'd suggest the opposite -- that Republicans are afraid of losing political power because they have trouble winning nationally. My recollection in 2016 (forgive me for being too lazy to look it up) is that Republicans lost the national vote in 2016 -- more people voted for the Democrats, not just Trump didn't get a majority but the Republican candidates got fewer nationally-- but, because of the way votes are apportioned, ended up with control of the government (House, Senate, Presidency and even the Supreme Court). The Republicans do not want a representative democracy, or a democratic republic (or whatever other name people want to use), they want the minority to rule.

 

[Adam56]

Why do I get the feeling that, if Trump wins the popular vote in 2024, but not the electoral vote, this position will be reversed?

Because it’s a comfortable feeling that helps feed your victim complex, you can just say “well you’d do the same too”, as opposed to saying “us wanting the popular vote goes against what this country was built on.”

 

[Adam56]

The Republicans do not want a representative democracy, or a democratic republic (or whatever other name people want to use), they want the minority to rule.

You don’t even know what those mean.

 

[A2SG]

Because it’s a comfortable feeling that helps feed your victim complex, you can just say “well you’d do the same too”, as opposed to saying “us wanting the popular vote goes against what this country was built on.”

Since you're so good at reading my mind, can you tell me the name of the song that's stuck in my head? It's been bugging me all week.

But, to the subject at hand, I've always felt the popular vote should be the way to go. One person, one vote, all weighed equally. Seems fairer to me. It's one of the few things conservative minded people in my state agree with me on. They feel their votes are ignored here in solidly blue Massachusetts.

Out of curiosity, why do you feel the Electoral College is better for our form of government?

-- A2SG, surely there's some good reason for it other than it gave Trump the win in 2016, despite more voters preferring Hilary....

 

[Pommer]

The Republicans do not want a representative democracy, or a democratic republic (or whatever other name people want to use), they want the minority to rule.

And have convinced themselves that their minority is the one which should do the ruling!

 

[NxNW]

From the article:

Those who want a few big states ruling the nation via a direct federal democracy

Right now we've got a few swing states controlling everything. How is that an improvement over every voter getting one vote?

 

[Pommer]

You don’t even know what those mean.

I’m so sorry, but our mutual friend @SimplyMe, is a well-spoken and erudite poster with more knowledge than most in these forums; accusing her of ignorance in these matters seems rather an “own goal”.

 

[NxNW]

Because it’s a comfortable feeling that helps feed your victim complex,

The only victim complex I see is with Trump supporters.

you can just say “well you’d do the same too”, as opposed to saying “us wanting the popular vote goes against what this country was built on.”

In other words, the electoral college is better because that's the way it's always been.

 

[Adam56]

Since you're so good at reading my mind, can you tell me the name of the song that's stuck in my head? It's been bugging me all week.

I don’t need to read your mind to understand the vibe of your post.

But, to the subject at hand, I've always felt the popular vote should be the way to go.

Of course, because it supports the masses, who flood our crime ridden cities.

One person, one vote, all weighed equally. Seems fairer to me. It's one of the few things conservative minded people in my state agree with me on. They feel their votes are ignored here in solidly blue Massachusetts.

Out of curiosity, why do you feel the Electoral College is better for our form of government?

As said above, the mega cities shouldn’t dominate over the majority of the country.